General Submarines related discussions

[MementoMori_6030]

Vor 35 Minuten, That_Other_Nid sagte:

Soooo, I just rammed a U-2501 in a Vampire 2. Vampire 2 sank the submarine survived.

Well, vampires cannot cross running water. 

[Cuddly_Spider]

10 hours ago, FloatingTarget said:

You will be pinged constantly and may have to waste a damage control ability to un-ping yourself which is worthless as you just get tagged immediately. Once torpedoes are on you, you will most likely get hit due to their magical anti-skill homing powers which if you are in a BB makes any kind of avoidance impossible.

 

Have you considered turning to avoid them?

 

10 hours ago, FloatingTarget said:

 

It's low skill because it's low risk high reward like a CV, you can safely engage enemies that cannot engage you and for the player on the opposing end it's an incredibly frustrating process.

 

 

I would not have such a bad opinion of them if they removed their homing torps and made them skill based like anything that throws torpedoes, but it's pretty much fire and forget and laugh as there's nothing your opponent can do.

 

 

Low skill? Yes, granted. But very high strategy and tactical play. Balancing stealth, position, when to fire and enemy awareness is a whole new metagame.

 

Try a sub out, they're nowhere near as easy as you seem to think they are.

[SmegTheNoob]

2 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

Have you considered turning to avoid them?

 

 

Low skill? Yes, granted. But very high strategy and tactical play. Balancing stealth, position, when to fire and enemy awareness is a whole new metagame.

 

Try a sub out, they're nowhere near as easy as you seem to think they are.

Have you tried to play some of the slowest BB's in the game and turn to avoid a Subs torps?

Trust me, it does not happen. 80% of the time you eat those torps no matter what you do.

Wargaming's idea of "SIMPLE MANOEUVRES" just does not happen.

 

Have you tried to mitigate a Subs sonar ping lock with damage con, only to be re-pinged straight after.

 

You Submarine lovers are all the same.

All you care about is how much fun YOU are having, at the expense of every other surface ship in the game.

[FloatingTarget]

Very well then, if you want to do this.

 

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And how is this more Stupid than a Shima plopping up a bit over 5km away and Shotgunning you with 15 Torps that have a combined Alpha of over 300k ?

 

I suck as a DD Player but even I more than once Shotgunned BBs that way.

 

So one type of torpedo spammer is okay (Subs) but the other type (Shima) is a big no no? So what you are saying is that you have had bad encounters with a ship you cannot respond to? Like how many players feel about subs? But any complaints about subs are just whining?

 

A Shima is a big threat but it can be countered, as a surface vessel it's always in danger of taking damage, Radar, Hydro, Planes. All these can spot them and Radio Location gives you a rough idea of where it's at. With a Shima you can avoid its torpedoes, they do not home in on you and have a wide dispersion. If that Shima player gets spotted then it's up to their skills as a player to get out of that sticky situation as a Shima is fragile. They can smoke up, but they are still vulnerable to blindfire, torps, radar, hydro and other DDs will feast on them. A Shima does not have a magic "shoot me no more" button that makes them completely invisible and unable to take damage.

 

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Yep. I am Playing all Classes.

Just before I went to work I played Cruisers for a Mission and Encountered several Subs.

But frankly. They are no more and no less annoying than Torpedo DDs.

Read above.

 

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And that is different to your average Smoke HE Spammer how ?

You know how often I damage Conned a Fire just for that Annoying DD to lurch some more HE Shells and put me on Fire again ?

That sounds like a skill issue if you are using Damage Control so early whilst still under fire. A HE spammer can be annoying, but they also light themselves up, everyone knows where they are and become prime targets. Even if they smoke up they still have restrictions, sitting in their smoke means you know exactly where they are and they become a torpedo magnet and a radar magnet, I get out of concealment range and let them sit in their smoke doing nothing whilst our own DDs torp them or cruisers shred them with radar. Once again, it cannot avoid damage and has to attack knowing it can be attacked and countered.

 

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If you are a BB and you are alone against a Shima its the same.

If You are a Shima and alone against even a T8 Baltimore you are helpless too.

And even mighty Desmoines wont to much one on one against Kremlin.

 

Funny enough.

BB vs Sub actually is easier than against a DD because the Sub needs to reveal its direction and can be sprayed with depth charges.

A DD launching toepedos also lets you know where it is, in the direction of the torps, a good player can judge where about it is. Radio Location also helps. I have killed a Shima in a BB in a one on one. It tried flanking and launching torps, it hit one but the damage was manageable, I had a rough idea of where it was so I pushed against it, it got stuck between me and the edge of the map and had no choice but to pass through me to escape, I lit it up. Not a wise idea to chase a DD in a BB but I was caught alone and had little choice. If that was a sub, they could have literally just went under me whilst hitting me with torps I cannot avoid, no matter my skill, I would die.

 

the sonar ping only let's you know the location from where it launched its sonar, not the direction it's heading and a ASW has to recharge after use, in the meantime you will be spammed to death by pings and torps.

 

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Then dont take it ???

If I am in a Shima I wont Hunt a Smaland you know.

Much less will I try to Fight a Radarcruiser.

 

Likewise that Radar Cruiser wont Manfight BBs.

Exactly, they counter each other but they can still kill and damage each other. A sub cannot be countered in the same way. A Shima can get the jump on a Smaland and torp ambush it, a Radarcruiser is visible and can be avoided and has to recharge after use, it cannot recharge its radar like a sub can it's dive capacity, so it must use them wisely. A Radarcruiser can destroy a BB if they play well.

 

A Sub, like a CV breaks this by being able to attack and defend from a position that allows it complete stealth or a way to avoid damage. When the ships you mention try to go against and counter each other they risk detection and their HP. Also, in real life a DD is a subs worst nightmare, in this game a sub can counter a DD by shotgunning them or laying low.

 

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Lol.

Try Playing them and Find out how wrong you are.

What You just said is perfectly demonstrating that you got no idea what you are talking about.

You got outplayed, dont understand why or how and scream cheater.

Where did I scream cheater? and where was I talking about a play? I was talking about an observation.

 

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CV is low Risk but also low Reward really.

CVs are very hard to play right.

And a Bad CV does absolutely nothing.

Same as a Sub.

 

Hence why I can always challenge people like you to prove their claims and they NEVER manage.

 

A bad player is bad regardless of the ship. Bad DD players yolo into a point and get killed, bad cruisers treat their ships like a BB and get deleted and bad BBs turn themselves into fat targets. But even they can damage their enemies in return, a CV only risks planes, they just need to sit there and once they have a target they can harass that target without having that target respond. Most people also seem to challenge your claims quite well.

 

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Again thats completely false.

You never hit anything like that.

 

You are like a Cruiser Player who never played a BB claiming that BBs are OP because he keeps getting deleted by them.

 

He sees neither the Vast amount of salvos just landing in the water nor does he realize how little damage they do if the Enemy angles.

 

What's the comparison here? A cruiser showing their broadside to a sub having homing torps? Because I'm not sure what your point is.

 

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Looks more like a Skill issue to me.

 

He keeps stopping in open water which makes him an easy target for HE Spam and Torps because he needs forever to maneuver away.

He keeps pushing alone and with his flanks exposed.

He is making himself a Sitting Duck lol.

 

Any Torp DD or HE Spam DD/Cruiser would have a Field Day with him as well.

 

The Sub is doing nothing special there at all.

 

He was in a good position capturing a point, as he stated the sub simply bypassed everything and decided to target him to which he had no response. Thus had two choices, run away or sit and take torp hits that he has no way of avoiding. A BB even in open water can counter a DD by angling into or away from the torps but there is no way for him to avoid homing torps. A cruiser risks a lot if it chooses to fight him. He was hidden behind an island but that matters little to a sub. Also, he is moving, he's making heavy use of his WASD and acceleration, always adjusting to bait fire and avoid it. He also did well for someone who was a sitting duck.

 

As you said, the sub was doing nothing special but it completely countered him with no way to respond.

[Cuddly_Spider]

15 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Have you tried to play some of the slowest BB's in the game and turn to avoid a Subs torps?

Trust me, it does not happen. 80% of the time you eat those torps no matter what you do.

Wargaming's idea of "SIMPLE MANOEUVRES" just does not happen.

 

My hit rate with torps is far from 80%. My torps are evaded regularly, more frequently than I hit in fact.

 

If you're only avoiding 20% of them then maybe the problem isn't the game.

 

15 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

 

Have you tried to mitigate a Subs sonar ping lock with damage con, only to be re-pinged straight after.

 

No. Never. Because that doesn't happen.

 

When you break the ping you should already be maneuvering to avoid getting pinged again. It takes quite a while for an enemy to reacquire you if you're in a nimble vehicle, and if you're not (such as in a BB) then you have quite a few seconds grace before you can get pinged again.

 

 

[SmegTheNoob]

3 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

My hit rate with torps is far from 80%. My torps are evaded regularly, more frequently than I hit in fact.

 

If you're only avoiding 20% of them then maybe the problem isn't the game.

 

 

No. Never. Because that doesn't happen.

 

When you break the ping you should already be maneuvering to avoid getting pinged again. It takes quite a while for an enemy to reacquire you if you're in a nimble vehicle, and if you're not (such as in a BB) then you have quite a few seconds grace before you can get pinged again.

 

 

You are so wrong on every point.

Go and play a lot of games in a slow BB, with a low range ASW air strike. Then you will see what its like.

 

Oh and you are wrong about being re-pinged too.

It happens all the time. What is the cool down of the sonar ping on a Sub?

Well, I will tell you. On a U-69 the sonar ping cool down is 6.5 seconds.

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U-69’s sonar is a helpful tool for dealing damage. While the velocity is average at 500 m/s, the 11.5km of range, and fast reload time of 6.5s is enough to double ping reliably. The double ping lasts 50 seconds which allows ample time for homing torpedoes to arrive.

Now, what is the cool down on a BB's Damage Control? 90 seconds maybe.

So, do please tell me how I can avoid being re-pinged by a Subs sonar if I have used my Damage Control ONCE?

 

As usual, you Sub lovers are talking nonsense.

[Cuddly_Spider]

54 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

You are so wrong on every point.

Go and play a lot of games in a slow BB, with a low range ASW air strike. Then you will see what its like.

 

No. The highest accuracy level I have is on the Salmon, which is 35%.

 

Regardless, the developers will have all of this data and will know they can safely ignore you.

54 minutes ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Oh and you are wrong about being re-pinged too.

It happens all the time. What is the cool down of the sonar ping on a Sub?

Well, I will tell you. On a U-69 the sonar ping cool down is 6.5 seconds.

Now, what is the cool down on a BB's Damage Control? 90 seconds maybe.

So, do please tell me how I can avoid being re-pinged by a Subs sonar if I have used my Damage Control ONCE?

 

As usual, you Sub lovers are talking nonsense.

You can't be re-pinged whilst your damage control is active, and how long does that remain active on a BB?

 

Sonar ping cool down might well be 6.5 seconds, but then the sub has to aim and fire the thing, which also takes time. If it's several KM away that's quite a while, if it's not several KM away it's giving its position to you quite nicely and you should be able to attack it.

[Cuddly_Spider]

9 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And that is different to your average Smoke HE Spammer how ?

You know how often I damage Conned a Fire just for that Annoying DD to lurch some more HE Shells and put me on Fire again ?

 

They Stop Homing before arrival which makes them easy to evade if you maneuver properly.

If you dont do that then you get hit hard.

Same as if you drive broadside to Enemies.

No magic there.

 

 

Quite so. The torps stop homing when they come within 1KM of you (or about that). In fact they're less problematic than smoke HE spam because, unlike the fires, you don't need to use your damage control to deal with sub torpedoes, you just need to dodge them.

 

The only thing wrong with the subs are those bigger meaty torpedoes, which are pretty useless. I'd get rid of them and replace them with a mine-layer.

[SmegTheNoob]

8 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

No. The highest accuracy level I have is on the Salmon, which is 35%.

 

Regardless, the developers will have all of this data and will know they can safely ignore you.

You can't be re-pinged whilst your damage control is active, and how long does that remain active on a BB?

 

Sonar ping cool down might well be 6.5 seconds, but then the sub has to aim and fire the thing, which also takes time. If it's several KM away that's quite a while, if it's not several KM away it's giving its position to you quite nicely and you should be able to attack it.

What has your accuracy level of torps got to do with how easy or hard it is to avoid torps in a slow BB?

Your torp accuracy is high compared to a lot of players. 23.78% in random battles.

Mine is only 7.58%, but I don't play subs with stupid homing torpedoes.

You play over double the number of games in Subs compared to DD's, so your torp hit rate will be higher.

But all that has got nothing to do with how hard it is to avoid homing torps in a slow BB.

 

Oh, and I am pretty sure that I have been re-pinged after using damage control.

I would have to check, but even if you can't be pinged while DC is active.

You can still be re-pinged way before your damage control is back off cool down.

Most of the BB's that I have have a action time on the DC of 28 or 30.8 seconds.

But the actual re-load time of damage control can be as long as 77 seconds or more.

That gives the Sub plenty of time to re-ping me and send more torps my way.

[Cuddly_Spider]

1 hour ago, SmegTheNoob said:

What has your accuracy level of torps got to do with how easy or hard it is to avoid torps in a slow BB?

Your torp accuracy is high compared to a lot of players. 23.78% in random battles.

Mine is only 7.58%, but I don't play subs with stupid homing torpedoes.

You play over double the number of games in Subs compared to DD's, so your torp hit rate will be higher.

But all that has got nothing to do with how hard it is to avoid homing torps in a slow BB.

 

Are you really going to say that torp accuracy has nothing to do with how hard it is to avoid them?

 

Ok.

 

1 hour ago, SmegTheNoob said:

 

Oh, and I am pretty sure that I have been re-pinged after using damage control.

I would have to check, but even if you can't be pinged while DC is active.

You can still be re-pinged way before your damage control is back off cool down.

Most of the BB's that I have have a action time on the DC of 28 or 30.8 seconds.

But the actual re-load time of damage control can be as long as 77 seconds or more.

That gives the Sub plenty of time to re-ping me and send more torps my way.

You said that you got re-pinged immediately after using damage control. That is obviously not possible as, by your own admission, the action time on the DC is around half a minute. You can not be pinged whilst that thing is active.

[Sunleader]

edited

 

Its just a Difference in Integrity.

 

If I Claim something to be OP or Broken. I will Prove it.

When Years Ago they Changed CVs from Strategic to Tactical Gameplay they were Ridiculously OP.

And I Complained about that.

 

But here is the Importand Difference.

When You Guys make this Claim and I Challenge You to actually Play Subs and CVs to Prove your Claims of them being so Easy to Play and OP.

You Guys make Trollposts like this. Trying to Play the Issue Off by making Fun of it and being Insulting :)

You know Perfectly Well that if you Played Subs or CVs Yourselfs You would just Embarass Yourself. So You Shy away from doing it. But instead of being an Adult and Just Admitting You are Wrong You try to Push that Point even if it means becoming a Troll :)

 

When I made the Claim that CVs are OP Years Ago. And Others told me I got no Idea and Challenged me to Play them myself to Show how OP they are.

 

I Simply went ahead and Did that.

 

I Played CVs in Randoms to Show that an Average Player like me can become Unicum by Playing CVs.

I Played Supposedly Weak CVs like Implaccable for 20 Games getting Unicum Results and then Provided the 20 Replays to Show to Someone that his Claims of this just being an Issue of one Ship being OP is Bullcrab.

I had a Field Day with my Graf Zeppelin. The Supposedly Weakest T8 CV back then. Entering the Ranked 1 on 1 Sprint just Roflstomping everything.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Now Take a Guess Mate.

Who You think will be taken Seriously between You and Me when we make such Claims ?

 

All You guys Do is to make Unproven Claims which are in many Cases Completely False and just go to Show that You dont even know how the Mechanics Work. :)

How About You Put your Money where your Mouth is and actually Show us the Stuff You claim ? :)

 

Otherwise You are just a Pretender. A Troll that is Knowingly Spreading False Information to form a Narrative to Fit his Lies :)

 

 

Vor 8 Stunden, FloatingTarget sagte:

Very well then, if you want to do this.

 

You need to Use the Original Quote for the First Part.

Otherwise I wont be Pinged and Your Post will be Lost in the Thick of it.

 

I saw it by Coincidence this time. But dont Expect this to happen each Time.

 

 

Zitat

 

So one type of torpedo spammer is okay (Subs) but the other type (Shima) is a big no no? So what you are saying is that you have had bad encounters with a ship you cannot respond to? Like how many players feel about subs? But any complaints about subs are just whining?

 

A Shima is a big threat but it can be countered, as a surface vessel it's always in danger of taking damage, Radar, Hydro, Planes. All these can spot them and Radio Location gives you a rough idea of where it's at. With a Shima you can avoid its torpedoes, they do not home in on you and have a wide dispersion. If that Shima player gets spotted then it's up to their skills as a player to get out of that sticky situation as a Shima is fragile. They can smoke up, but they are still vulnerable to blindfire, torps, radar, hydro and other DDs will feast on them. A Shima does not have a magic "shoot me no more" button that makes them completely invisible and unable to take damage.

 

Other Way around Mate.

All Torpedo Spammers are OK. :)

 

You Say Subs are not Ok but Shima is Ok. Even tough they basicly can do pretty much the same stuff.

And I say that Both are OK.

 

 

And Well. So is a Submarine.

A Submarine cant Dive Permanently. Its always in Danger of some BB 10km Dropping Depth Charges on its Head if it got Spotted by Planes, Radar or Hydro for even a Second.

And Radio Location is a Skill People need to Select. Not everyone has it.

 

Also. Shima Torps Dispersion is Easily Overcome by the Fact that their Damage is much Higher and You shoot much more of them.

But again. Thats stuff You would Know if You ever bothered actually Playing Subs.

 

 

Zitat

Read above.

 

Above is not Answering my Statement.

You asked if I played other Classes. And I told You I do.

I got no Problems Killing Submarines.

Submarines Generally pose far less of a Threat to me than Torpedo DDs.

 

 

Zitat

That sounds like a skill issue if you are using Damage Control so early whilst still under fire. A HE spammer can be annoying, but they also light themselves up, everyone knows where they are and become prime targets. Even if they smoke up they still have restrictions, sitting in their smoke means you know exactly where they are and they become a torpedo magnet and a radar magnet, I get out of concealment range and let them sit in their smoke doing nothing whilst our own DDs torp them or cruisers shred them with radar. Once again, it cannot avoid damage and has to attack knowing it can be attacked and countered.

 

Fallacy.

A Submarine cant Dive Unlimited either and is a Radar Magnet as well.

If a Radar Cruiser is around where a Sub or Smoking HE Spammer is. He will use it to Reveal them so they can be Fired upon.

Difference is. HE Spammers in Smoke can Generally Stay out of Radar Range.

 

And No. Its simply an Issue of You not having any Idea how to use this stuff.

An HE Spamming Cruiser has much lower Detection Range and often comes with Smoke. He will Wait for You to be in a Range where he can Fire at you for a good amount of time. Just like a Sub will Wait for You to take a Position where he can Hit You easily.

And Once You are there You have the Choice. You Risk using Damage Con to evade the Incoming Damage that is already Guaranteed but Risk Bigger Damage Afterwards. Or You Accept the already Coming Damage and only use Damage Con to Prevent Bigger Damage on your Retreat from the Position.

 

There is no Difference between Subs and HE Spammers Mate.

Both can easily Overload Your Damage Control.

 

 

 

Zitat

A DD launching toepedos also lets you know where it is, in the direction of the torps, a good player can judge where about it is. Radio Location also helps. I have killed a Shima in a BB in a one on one. It tried flanking and launching torps, it hit one but the damage was manageable, I had a rough idea of where it was so I pushed against it, it got stuck between me and the edge of the map and had no choice but to pass through me to escape, I lit it up. Not a wise idea to chase a DD in a BB but I was caught alone and had little choice. If that was a sub, they could have literally just went under me whilst hitting me with torps I cannot avoid, no matter my skill, I would die.

 

Fallacy and another Demonstration that You have no Idea what you are Talking about.

 

By the Time a DD Torps become Visible to You. The DD has long Changed Position. And by this time its also long too late to Evade.

A Sub meanwhile has to use the Ping from its current Position. it has to Reveal its actual Right now Position to others.

 

If You want You can Test that.

Get a Frind in Training Room to Drop Torps at You from Random Points while Driving around Try Firing at the Rough Location of a DD based on where his Torps Came from.

Then Try the same with Spamming Depth Charges at Your Friend using Sonar Pings.

 

I can Guarantee. You will Generally be 10km and more off from the DD unless he Literally Stops and Sits in Position.

But You will quite often Chip Damage on the Submarine.

 

 

 

Also. You keep Repeating this Bullcrab that you cannot Avoid the Torps no matter what.

But I take Bets. If You Play Sub. You would barely Hit any Torpedoes on others.

Because You would Quickly Notice that for some Reason other Players can somehow Evade these Magic Torpedoes. :)

 

This is another Reason why You Should actually try Playing Subs.

Because even if You Yourself Lack the Skill to Develop Countermeasures. There is always others that have Developed them.

And by Playing the Submarines. Others will Teach You how a Sub can be Countered.

 

 

Zitat

the sonar ping only let's you know the location from where it launched its sonar, not the direction it's heading and a ASW has to recharge after use, in the meantime you will be spammed to death by pings and torps.

 

Thats more than you get from a DD where the Torps only Reveal what Direction that  DD was a Minute ago when he Launched these Torps.

So why Do You Cry about Subs but not about DDs ? :)

 

 

Zitat

Exactly, they counter each other but they can still kill and damage each other. A sub cannot be countered in the same way. A Shima can get the jump on a Smaland and torp ambush it, a Radarcruiser is visible and can be avoided and has to recharge after use, it cannot recharge its radar like a sub can it's dive capacity, so it must use them wisely. A Radarcruiser can destroy a BB if they play well.

 

Sorry but thats just Bullcrab. Again. You are Just Demonstrating that You never Bothered Learning the Game Mechanics. 

A Smaland is a Radar DD. A Shima will never get a Jump on it for a Torpedo Ambush unless the Smaland is a Complete Potato that basicly Drives around an Island Corner where the Shima is without even bothering to use Radar First.

But if the Submarine goes to Surface and tries to Yolo the BB You get the same Result of the BB easily Killing the Sub. So thats not an Argument Mate.

And No. Many Radarcruisers can actually Stealth Radar. Meaning by the Time You see them You are already in Radar Range or a Second Away from it.

And Yes. A Radarcruiser can Destroy a BB if the BB Plays Badly. But so can a BB Destroy a Sub. :)

 

 

 

Zitat

A Sub, like a CV breaks this by being able to attack and defend from a position that allows it complete stealth or a way to avoid damage. When the ships you mention try to go against and counter each other they risk detection and their HP. Also, in real life a DD is a subs worst nightmare, in this game a sub can counter a DD by shotgunning them or laying low.

 

A DD can Attack from Complete Stealth as well. And HE Spamming Cruisers can often Attack from behind Islands being Impossible to Hit back.

So Yeah. Sorry but thats all already Existing with other Classes.

 

Its Actually Hilarious because for CVs there actually is Arguments You could make. But You cant make them because You have no Idea how they Play. Thus instead just ending up Showing that You dont know how things work.

 

 

For example. You are Right that DDs Should be Stronger against Subs.

For whatever Reason WG made BBs the Best Subhunters in the Game.

 

But its not because of Shotgunning or laying Low.

Both of that isnt what makes DDs a Bad Match.

But well. You dont Play Subs So You will never Find out I guess.

 

 

 

Zitat

Where did I scream cheater? and where was I talking about a play? I was talking about an observation.

 

 

Magic Torps that cannot be Avoided ?

No Skill Requirement for Subs to Play Well ?

Immunity to Damage ?

 

You keep making Claims on why Subs are OP and why Players that Outplay You with them are actually not Outplaying You but are just Cheating by using a Class that is OP Mate.

 

But Subs aint OP at all.

You are just a Bad Player that doesnt bother Learning how to Counter them :)

 

 

Zitat

A bad player is bad regardless of the ship. Bad DD players yolo into a point and get killed, bad cruisers treat their ships like a BB and get deleted and bad BBs turn themselves into fat targets. But even they can damage their enemies in return, a CV only risks planes, they just need to sit there and once they have a target they can harass that target without having that target respond. Most people also seem to challenge your claims quite well.

 

But You said Subs dont Require Skill and so a Bad Player that is too low Skill to Play other Classes. Can Play Sub to be Good :)

 

You are the Bad Player Mate.

Good Players can Counter Subs quite Easily.

 

If You bothered Playing Subs for a While. You would Learn that quite Quickly because other Players in Surface Ships would Constantly Outplay You and Kill You in your Sub as well as Evading your Undodgable Magic Torps etc :)

 

 

And Nope. So far Nobody Managed to Challenge my Claims at all.

Its the Difference between us.

If Someone wants to Challenge my Claims I can just Demonstrate them.

 

 

If you want I can Prove that to You as well.

We can Run a Few Test Rounds in Training Room.

 

For example the Shima and Sub thing.

I take a BB for 5 Turns and You take a Sub.

Then I take Shima for 5 Turns and You take a BB.

Lets See how easily You Counter my Shima. And how easily I Counter your Sub :)

Likewise we can go for my Baltimore.

I take my Baltimore against a T8 DD of Your Choice for 5 Turns.

Then You take the Baltimore for 5 Turns and I Play a T8 BB.

Lets See how You Beat a BB in that Radar Cruiser. And how You Beat the Radar Cruiser in a DD :) (Spoiler Alert: You wont lol)

 

 

Zitat

 

What's the comparison here? A cruiser showing their broadside to a sub having homing torps? Because I'm not sure what your point is.

 

Simple.

Homing Torps have a Fatal Flaw.

They Stop Homing about 1km away. Which means by doing a certain Maneuver You can actually use their own Homing Mechanic against them to make them Miss all the time.

But You likely got no Idea how to do that.

Hence why You Feel they are Impossible to Dodge.

You are the same as a Potato Player in a Cruiser that doesnt realize that Driving Broadside to Enemy Ships is a Bad Idea.

 

 

Zitat

 

He was in a good position capturing a point, as he stated the sub simply bypassed everything and decided to target him to which he had no response. Thus had two choices, run away or sit and take torp hits that he has no way of avoiding. A BB even in open water can counter a DD by angling into or away from the torps but there is no way for him to avoid homing torps. A cruiser risks a lot if it chooses to fight him. He was hidden behind an island but that matters little to a sub. Also, he is moving, he's making heavy use of his WASD and acceleration, always adjusting to bait fire and avoid it. He also did well for someone who was a sitting duck.

 

As you said, the sub was doing nothing special but it completely countered him with no way to respond.

 

The Sub just took the Free Exp Pinate Sitting there in a Bad Position.

There was nothing to Bypass. Middle was Empty. For the Ohio he already lost half his Team before the Sub got to him. And for the Yamato he got Torpedoes because he was sitting there in the same Spot forever.

Both cases are just Skill Issues Mate.

He Played Badly and got Punished for it.

Any DD and any HE Spamming Cruiser could have Punished his Bad Play just as easily.

He just Cherrypicked 2 Replays where the one to Punish his Bad Play was a Sub.

 

 

 

Vor 6 Stunden, Cuddly_Spider sagte:

 

Quite so. The torps stop homing when they come within 1KM of you (or about that). In fact they're less problematic than smoke HE spam because, unlike the fires, you don't need to use your damage control to deal with sub torpedoes, you just need to dodge them.

 

The only thing wrong with the subs are those bigger meaty torpedoes, which are pretty useless. I'd get rid of them and replace them with a mine-layer.

 

Aye. I am not sure what these are about either.

I barely ever use them because they are only useful in very specific and rare situations.

 

I would not go for a Minelayer tough.

I would just Switch the two Torps. I would make the Homing Torps Short Range with higher Damage. And the Unguided Torps High Range with High Speed.

 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

I still do not see how somebody can have difficulty playing the game with subs in game and/or against them.

[Juuzaam]

Vor 24 Minuten, WingedHussar_Adler sagte:

I still do not see how somebody can have difficulty playing the game with subs in game and/or against them.

What?

[Cuddly_Spider]

18 minutes ago, Juuzaam said:

What?

 

He considers it unfathomable that you would take such consternation from the submarine constituent of the game which has a very attenuated perimetric on the overall experience, all things considered.

[plain_average]

The problem is not subs as such - or carriers as such - the problem is wargaming matching subs with ships that have 0 way to defend against them - and same with carriers.

 

I was just in a game with a tier er 5 BB (Cavour) - two subs on each side and a carrier. When I died after having done litteraly nothing it was because a carrier just singled me out after a while and could just nuke me first with bombs and then with torps, and the AA on this ship is almost non existing - no planes were hurt in any of the attach runs what so ever.

 

Same with subs - no detection gear what so ever and if I am pinged am toast, since I only have one repair and subs can just keep on pinging - apparently there are no limit on how my pings or how often.

 

So the problem is classes playing against ships that have almost 0 way to defend against them - and no teamplay is not a valid strategy since we are playing randoms.

 

And ofcourse my problems was exaggerated by it was a tier 6 carrier.

 

So a simple solution could be:

* Give all ships sub detection gear - a special sonar that can only detect ships below the surface.

* Carriers or subs should never be top tier - or at least never be put into battle with ships that have no real way to defend against them

 

Or even better - remove subs and put them into a special game mode where masochists can play.

 

I am litterally disgusted by how broken subs are

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, plain_average said:

The problem is not subs as such - or carriers as such - the problem is wargaming matching subs with ships that have 0 way to defend against them - and same with carriers.

 

I was just in a game with a tier er 5 BB (Cavour) - two subs on each side and a carrier. When I died after having done litteraly nothing it was because a carrier just singled me out after a while and could just nuke me first with bombs and then with torps, and the AA on this ship is almost non existing - no planes were hurt in any of the attach runs what so ever.

 

Same with subs - no detection gear what so ever and if I am pinged am toast, since I only have one repair and subs can just keep on pinging - apparently there are no limit on how my pings or how often.

 

So the problem is classes playing against ships that have almost 0 way to defend against them - and no teamplay is not a valid strategy since we are playing randoms.

 

And ofcourse my problems was exaggerated by it was a tier 6 carrier.

 

So a simple solution could be:

* Give all ships sub detection gear - a special sonar that can only detect ships below the surface.

* Carriers or subs should never be top tier - or at least never be put into battle with ships that have no real way to defend against them

 

Or even better - remove subs and put them into a special game mode where masochists can play.

 

I am litterally disgusted by how broken subs are

 

Sure.

But then I also Demand we get Special Gamemodes for Everything else.

I want a Gamemode where I can Play Torpedo DD without Gun DDs or Radar Cruisers.

A Mode to Play BB without Torpedo DDs or HE Spam Cruisers.

A Mode for CVs where no AA Cruisers are or Halland are Allowed.

And Dont Forget a Mode for Cruisers where BBs cannot Play. :)

 

But Frankly that would be Quite Boring.

How about we Simply make a Gamemode for Potatoes like You guys which Refuse to Learn the Game Mechanics ?

 

Oh Wait. We already got that.

Its called Tier 1

There almost all Mechanics are Disabled and all Ships Available are Pretty much Equal :)

 

Perfect Mode For You.

[plain_average]

33 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

How about we Simply make a Gamemode for Potatoes like You guys which Refuse to Learn the Game Mechanics ?

Tell me o wise one - unicum - how as a tier 3 ship can i defend against a carrier?

 

And also - how will I detect a sub and protect against it in a tier 5 BB that turns in 1 minute, with no detection skills and with only a single skill to cause the "magic" torps to lose their lock.

 

If you cannot see that is a problem, and have nothing with learning game mechanics to do, you sir are just stirring crap up and are part of the problem.

[SmegTheNoob]

4 hours ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

Are you really going to say that torp accuracy has nothing to do with how hard it is to avoid them?

 

Ok.

 

You said that you got re-pinged immediately after using damage control. That is obviously not possible as, by your own admission, the action time on the DC is around half a minute. You can not be pinged whilst that thing is active.

1. No. You were quoting your torp hit percentage as an argument. We are not on about accuracy.

 

What I said was "what has your own torp hit rate got to do with how easy or hard it is in a slow BB to avoid sub torps".

You may say that you hit 23% with torps. But that has got nothing to do with how hard it is to avoid sub torps with a slow BB.

 

2. I did say I wasn't sure if I got pinged straight away after using damage control. But the fact of the matter is that a Sub can just re-ping you before your damage con cool down is up.

Also what happens with using damage control when you have no active fires, no flooding and no damage to heal. Does it mitigate the ping, then sit there doing nothing for 30 seconds?

Or does it just stop the ping lock, and then do nothing else. Therefore letting the sub ping again straight away? Now, I would love someone from Wargaming to answer me that question.

 

[floribe2000]

Rule-breaking posts and replies to those posts removed/edited

[Woof_for_Me]

46 minutes ago, plain_average said:

Tell me o wise one - unicum - how as a tier 3 ship can i defend against a carrier?

 

And also - how will I detect a sub and protect against it in a tier 5 BB that turns in 1 minute, with no detection skills and with only a single skill to cause the "magic" torps to lose their lock.

 

If you cannot see that is a problem, and have nothing with learning game mechanics to do, you sir are just stirring crap up and are part of the problem.

You should just ask yourself why players like me and him don't have the problems you are having and then try to work towards being similarly unbothered. If that isn't an option for you then that's your choice and not the games fault. 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

2 hours ago, plain_average said:

The problem is not subs as such - or carriers as such - the problem is wargaming matching subs with ships that have 0 way to defend against them - and same with carriers.

 

I was just in a game with a tier er 5 BB (Cavour) - two subs on each side and a carrier. When I died after having done litteraly nothing it was because a carrier just singled me out after a while and could just nuke me first with bombs and then with torps, and the AA on this ship is almost non existing - no planes were hurt in any of the attach runs what so ever.

 

Same with subs - no detection gear what so ever and if I am pinged am toast, since I only have one repair and subs can just keep on pinging - apparently there are no limit on how my pings or how often.

 

So the problem is classes playing against ships that have almost 0 way to defend against them - and no teamplay is not a valid strategy since we are playing randoms.

 

And ofcourse my problems was exaggerated by it was a tier 6 carrier.

 

So a simple solution could be:

* Give all ships sub detection gear - a special sonar that can only detect ships below the surface.

* Carriers or subs should never be top tier - or at least never be put into battle with ships that have no real way to defend against them

 

Or even better - remove subs and put them into a special game mode where masochists can play.

 

I am litterally disgusted by how broken subs are

Teamgame. Yeah I know. Shocking 😄

[SmegTheNoob]

1 hour ago, SmegTheNoob said:

1. No. You were quoting your torp hit percentage as an argument. We are not on about accuracy.

 

What I said was "what has your own torp hit rate got to do with how easy or hard it is in a slow BB to avoid sub torps".

You may say that you hit 23% with torps. But that has got nothing to do with how hard it is to avoid sub torps with a slow BB.

 

2. I did say I wasn't sure if I got pinged straight away after using damage control. But the fact of the matter is that a Sub can just re-ping you before your damage con cool down is up.

Also what happens with using damage control when you have no active fires, no flooding and no damage to heal. Does it mitigate the ping, then sit there doing nothing for 30 seconds?

Or does it just stop the ping lock, and then do nothing else. Therefore letting the sub ping again straight away? Now, I would love someone from Wargaming to answer me that question.

 

My bad on answer 2. I keep mistaking damage control with repair party.

But as an example P Heinrich has a damage control that lasts 11 seconds, with a reload time of 40 seconds.

Oh and to Cuddly_Spider, I can confirm that after using damage control in my P Heinrich, I was immediately pinged again by the sub.

So, yes, a sub can ping you again after using damage control.

[FloatingTarget]

1 hour ago, Woof_for_Me said:

You should just ask yourself why players like me and him don't have the problems you are having and then try to work towards being similarly unbothered. If that isn't an option for you then that's your choice and not the games fault. 

Because people who play submarines are the only people that don't have an issue with submarines. Because removing homing torps and balancing them would mean that you don't get to cheese it.

 

Not sure yet if sub players have hit on that they are in a minority here and that most people have issues.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

4 minutes ago, FloatingTarget said:

Because removing homing torps and balancing them would mean that you don't get to cheese it.

Are you not aware how easy it is to deal with homing torps and that the most dangerous sub players don't even ping you? You just die to them.
 

[SmegTheNoob]

3 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai_Ni said:

Are you not aware how easy it is to deal with homing torps and that the most dangerous sub players don't even ping you? You just die to them.
 

Isn't it funny that it is always the Super Unicum players that turn round and say its easy to deal with homing torpedoes?

How many times do I have to state how hard I find avoiding homing torps in a slow BB.

Just because you think its easy to avoid the torps, doesn't mean its the same for the rest of us.

 

Oh and don't bother coming back with the "it's a skill issue" comment.