General Submarines related discussions

[JohnMac79]

5 hours ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

That is why subs are the worstperforming class by far.

 

In what way? The sheer amount of people i have seen whose win rate increases by 20% just by playing subs is hilarious. If we are talking about actually winning games, what you say is deceptive at best, an outright lie at worst.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

1 minute ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

In what way? The sheer amount of people i have seen whose win rate increases by 20% just by playing subs is hilarious. If we are talking about actually winning games, what you say is deceptive at best, an outright lie at worst.

AS subs are perfect mirrow WR just don't show a thing. 

 

But average dmg, exp, spot, ......even worst than dds which held lowest spot before subs. 

[JohnMac79]

8 minutes ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

AS subs are perfect mirrow WR just don't show a thing. 

 

But average dmg, exp, spot, ......even worst than dds which held lowest spot before subs. 

 

WR shows a lot... just as it does with CV. Even potatoes can get a high win rate with average damage numbers because the class has massive game impact. Put a bad player in a sub or CV and their personal game impact may not be great, but their class impact can be huge almost be accident, put a good player in a sub or CV and its just hilariously broken. If you dont get this then you are beyond help and your 'opinion' can be dismissed without further thought, if you do get it, then you are blindly trying to defend your new shiny grief machine, and your 'opinion' can be dismissed without further thought...

 

Have a nice night.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

15 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

WR shows a lot... just as it does with CV. Even potatoes can get a high win rate with average damage numbers because the class has massive game impact. Put a bad player in a sub or CV and their personal game impact may not be great, but their class impact can be huge almost be accident, put a good player in a sub or CV and its just hilariously broken. If you dont get this then you are beyond help and your 'opinion' can be dismissed without further thought, if you do get it, then you are blindly trying to defend your new shiny grief machine, and your 'opinion' can be dismissed without further thought...

 

Have a nice night.

Lol. Do you know how mirror MM works? 😅🤣😂

[admiraldelorin]

56 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

WR shows a lot... just as it does with CV. Even potatoes can get a high win rate with average damage numbers because the class has massive game impact. Put a bad player in a sub or CV and their personal game impact may not be great, but their class impact can be huge almost be accident, put a good player in a sub or CV and its just hilariously broken. If you dont get this then you are beyond help and your 'opinion' can be dismissed without further thought, if you do get it, then you are blindly trying to defend your new shiny grief machine, and your 'opinion' can be dismissed without further thought...

 

Have a nice night.

inflexible players that see their "score"  (read bragging rights)  deminish . are elite afraid to loose because they can"t keep up, can"t adapt and are too afraid to be show to be inadaquate..   period. (one trick ponies? ) Can mostly not think beyond point and shoot. Of course anything they can not point at and shoot at is totally screwing them, the game, and everthing. If you do not understand that their lack of skill (communication)  , teamplay and (well you can fill it in ).. is totally NOT the issue YOU are beyond help...    which proofs the point.   BTW as long as BB"s have the longest ques.. IMO that is where the potatoes are.. can"t play anything else...

Brains? The conception that a bad player in a Sub, CV has any impact on your personal WR when it is totally random if the bad player is on your team or the orther.. is well ehr..

Yup you play one game. When the bad player is on your team, then never play agein and come to the forum to complain.. 
But hangon.. ,if you are on the other team,... now what ...  ofcourse you have to quit playing,  complain loudly (you need to give a reason fro quitting) as not to risk your 100% WR..

All the while others may actually play this game NOT for bragging rights... and by the looks of it have waaaaaaay more fun !

[JohnMac79]

2 minutes ago, admiraldelorin said:

inflexible players that see their "score"  (read bragging rights)  deminish . are elite afraid to loose because they can"t keep up, can"t adapt and are too afraid to be show to be inadaquate..   period. (one trick ponies? ) Can mostly not think beyond point and shoot. Of course anything they can not point at and shoot at is totally screwing them, the game, and everthing. If you do not understand that their lack of skill (communication)  , teamplay and (well you can fill it in ).. is totally NOT the issue YOU are beyond help...    which proofs the point.   BTW as long as BB"s have the longest ques.. IMO that is where the potatoes are.. can"t play anything else...

Brains? The conception that a bad player in a Sub, CV has any impact on your personal WR when it is totally random if the bad player is on your team or the orther.. is well ehr..

Yup you play one game. When the bad player is on your team, then never play agein and come to the forum to complain.. 
But hangon.. ,if you are on the other team,... now what ...  ofcourse you have to quit playing,  complain loudly (you need to give a reason fro quitting) as not to risk your 100% WR..

All the while others may actually play this game NOT for bragging rights... and by the looks of it have waaaaaaay more fun !

 

 

 

[admiraldelorin]

1 hour ago, WingedHussar_Adler said:

AS subs are perfect mirrow WR just don't show a thing. 

 

But average dmg, exp, spot, ......even worst than dds which held lowest spot before subs. 

dmg, exp, per game...  vs   DD"s highest game rate (games per time unit) ?   dmg / time unit, caps / time unit..   as DD and subs are mirrored WR per ship type does not mean a thing.  Butt BB"s CA"s without a DD or CV never would see any target..untill their hit.

Heck every noob learns very fast that XP per minute (fastest way to research tier x ) is highest with a cap or kill then die ASAP and hit the next game, one of 12 players hardly can control outcome. so 4 x 50%  (5 minutes per game beats 1 x 50% (20 minutes per game)
You better pray that noobs choose the right tree and are satisfied after their first tier x and can start to play for winning a battle instead of XP, credits, missions rewards, etc.      

[admiraldelorin]

5 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

 

 

and confirmed ! 

 

[admiraldelorin]

15 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

 

 

Lets have some truth here Brawl tier X,  1:1   you play Kremlin average battle takes 6 minutes, WR 60%  ?  or do you play Marceau avaerag battle 2 minutes, WR 80 % ?  Why would you bother playing Kremlin? 

When you are a noob that does not mean you are stupid. Noobs just lack experience you can study up and make decision based on research and acquired knowldge,

so you pick Marceau all day every day.  I have not heard anybody complaining about the Marceau though   

for Noobs:  Marceau French tier X destroyer top speed north of 54 knots, enough torps to sink battle ship in first salvo (all tubes both sides) , small enough not to be sunk by 1 main gun salvo (there wil not be a 2nd salvo) in 1:1 fight 80% WR is more then doable (some wil be Marcaeu vs Marceau, some wil be vs BBs with long range accurate 150mm secondaries wth high fire rate, some CA with high fire rate main guns may get enough hits in destroy torpdo tubes etc.)  

In a sub you can easily get a first salvo in undiscovered and do enough damage to get to your desired XP/minute and bail out for the next game. ( You just need to grow a thick skin ignoring the tocxid remarks, just enjoy the fun..  the more they kick and scream the more you help your team. ) 

[JohnMac79]

13 hours ago, admiraldelorin said:

Lets have some truth here Brawl tier X,  1:1   you play Kremlin average battle takes 6 minutes, WR 60%  ?  or do you play Marceau avaerag battle 2 minutes, WR 80 % ?  Why would you bother playing Kremlin? 

When you are a noob that does not mean you are stupid. Noobs just lack experience you can study up and make decision based on research and acquired knowldge,

so you pick Marceau all day every day.  I have not heard anybody complaining about the Marceau though   

for Noobs:  Marceau French tier X destroyer top speed north of 54 knots, enough torps to sink battle ship in first salvo (all tubes both sides) , small enough not to be sunk by 1 main gun salvo (there wil not be a 2nd salvo) in 1:1 fight 80% WR is more then doable (some wil be Marcaeu vs Marceau, some wil be vs BBs with long range accurate 150mm secondaries wth high fire rate, some CA with high fire rate main guns may get enough hits in destroy torpdo tubes etc.)  

In a sub you can easily get a first salvo in undiscovered and do enough damage to get to your desired XP/minute and bail out for the next game. ( You just need to grow a thick skin ignoring the tocxid remarks, just enjoy the fun..  the more they kick and scream the more you help your team. ) 

 

Im still completely lost on what you are talking about. Kremlin average battle time 6 minutes? Marceau average battle time 2 minutes? I genuinely have no clue what point you are trying to make.

[sisito0o]

I played the submarines for a first time now and they are not interesting... Nerfed enough so that they perform like all the other ships in game which is the goal of wargaming so good job to them. But since with submarines I usually survive to the end of the game it becomes very boring, I can't do much damage like CVs or go fast where the action is in seconds like CVs... Maybe I have to mention that I was one of those pro's with RTS CVs and after their removal no ship has been interesting to me so there is that, I was hoping I will find something in these subs but no. They are too weak in their unique abilities. People are complaining when a class is too different from all the rest like it's a drawback but it is a benefit for me, RTS was completely different from FPS or however you call the other ships gameplay but because of that there were people that played the game just for that class like me, now fewer people play CVs even tho there are less tiers of it and the game has more players than 2018. If subs are not tweaked somehow in 1 year they will be in same situation.

[FloatingTarget]

Is Wargaming still going through with their plan to add their (typically overpowered Soviet) sub to the game? I assume they will be attaching phasers and photon torpedoes on it to compliment its warp engines?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Is anybody else just not bothered with the submarines? I can't even get myself to FXP the bloody things, they are so fkn boring.

[Varian_Dorn]

30 minutes ago, FloatingTarget said:

Is Wargaming still going through with their plan to add their (typically overpowered Soviet) sub to the game? I assume they will be attaching phasers and photon torpedoes on it to compliment its warp engines?

Judging by the one we got so far, the S-189, I´d say these are soviet vessels that aren´t all that "op".

 

6 minutes ago, Europizza said:

Is anybody else just not bothered with the submarines? I can't even get myself to FXP the bloody things, they are so fkn boring.

Then simply don´t. I fail to see whats to discuss here. Or are you debating with yourself and want a second opinion?

 

While you probably know me as a stern defender of subs in this game I actually don´t use them that often. And when I do most of the time my favourite is the least sub-like submarine we got so far, the I-56. Here´s the thing: I like the concept, I like the options we got, but most of the time I´m mainly a battleship guy.

That said, I really just play what I feel like playing and or what missions I want to complete. And in that regard I like to quote one of my favourite youtubers: "... you have options. And remember: Options! are good."

 

Also: in before the obligatory "my option is to ignore the damn things" or "sadly we don´t have the option to remove them" comments - just to get ahead of the usual.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Then simply don´t. I fail to see whats to discuss here. Or are you debating with yourself and want a second opinion?

It's really not that hard to comprehend what is being written, unless blinded by a silly sub fanboi bias i guess. 

2 hours ago, Europizza said:

Is anybody else just not bothered with the submarines? I can't even get myself to FXP the bloody things, they are so fkn boring.

Ignoring sub techtree: check, even double check.

Asking other people for opinions: check, and double check.

 

Just answer the question without your silly wannabe snarky finger pointing nonsense. 

 

[lovelacebeer]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

Is anybody else just not bothered with the submarines? I can't even get myself to FXP the bloody things, they are so fkn boring.

For play style the subs in game utterly bore me but visually I still have to give WG credit for the models, when I look at the Balao it always reminds me of the film Down Periscope. 
 

So I might well get the British boats when they come out just as port queens especially the T class they have such an unusual character. It’s a pity HMS Alliance will be a premium because I have fond memories of going aboard her as a boy. 

[Varian_Dorn]

6 hours ago, Europizza said:

It's really not that hard to comprehend what is being written, unless blinded by a silly sub fanboi bias i guess. 

Ignoring sub techtree: check, even double check.

Asking other people for opinions: check, and double check.

 

Just answer the question without your silly wannabe snarky finger pointing nonsense. 

 

Fine.

 

I had a similar... unwillingness... a long time ago, I think it was with the soviet cruisers. I did grind them up eventually, even if its just to have that tree completed as well. There are several ships and even ship lines I don´t like that much; in the end I completed them only because 1.) I ran out of the interesting ones and 2.) it means at least another T10 ship ready to go for events (anniversary and christmas) which in turn means more free stuff.

 

If everything else fails maybe just free xp the subs so you get more T10s for these two occasions. Since we have this nifty little token system you don´t even have to play them ever to get the rewards off of them.

[SmegTheNoob]

50 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Fine.

 

I had a similar... unwillingness... a long time ago, I think it was with the soviet cruisers. I did grind them up eventually, even if its just to have that tree completed as well. There are several ships and even ship lines I don´t like that much; in the end I completed them only because 1.) I ran out of the interesting ones and 2.) it means at least another T10 ship ready to go for events (anniversary and christmas) which in turn means more free stuff.

 

If everything else fails maybe just free xp the subs so you get more T10s for these two occasions. Since we have this nifty little token system you don´t even have to play them ever to get the rewards off of them.

Even if I ran out of other ships to research.

I would still NEVER play a stupid Submarine or a Carrier.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Varian_Dorn said:

Fine.

 

I had a similar... unwillingness... a long time ago, I think it was with the soviet cruisers. I did grind them up eventually, even if its just to have that tree completed as well. There are several ships and even ship lines I don´t like that much; in the end I completed them only because 1.) I ran out of the interesting ones and 2.) it means at least another T10 ship ready to go for events (anniversary and christmas) which in turn means more free stuff.

 

If everything else fails maybe just free xp the subs so you get more T10s for these two occasions. Since we have this nifty little token system you don´t even have to play them ever to get the rewards off of them.

See that is the problem for me actually, its not unwillingness, something you are still assuming wrongfully. I gave them plenty of chance so far because I love subs in general. But Lesta has pushed their take on subs, much like carriers, into a boring and long winded grind. Adding only even tiers, a mistake they made previously with the carrier rework, make moving up the lines untolerably tiresome and repetitive. It is that repetitive because of the massive xp gaps and the utterly shallow and dull gameplay. Now that im grinding tier 6 for real, I find I cant be bothered, and cant even make a case for fxping the lines. I'd rather use my fxp to speed through the research bureau for the fifth time to get a 10x to bonus on the uk cruiser line.

 

What is so very dissapointing, again, is I love carriers, aviation and submarines in general. But the stuff Lesta comes up with has so little to do with what I love about them, that I cant be arsed.

[SkipperCH]

Removed 1 post for insults.

[SD71]

Games unplayabl with subs in it, random games dont have the teamwork, donbt alwats want to plat competitivly in ranked or brawl or join a clam

[Varian_Dorn]

2 hours ago, Europizza said:

See that is the problem for me actually, its not unwillingness, something you are still assuming wrongfully. I gave them plenty of chance so far because I love subs in general. But Lesta has pushed their take on subs, much like carriers, into a boring and long winded grind. Adding only even tiers, a mistake they made previously with the carrier rework, make moving up the lines untolerably tiresome and repetitive. It is that repetitive because of the massive xp gaps and the utterly shallow and dull gameplay. Now that im grinding tier 6 for real, I find I cant be bothered, and cant even make a case for fxping the lines. I'd rather use my fxp to speed through the research bureau for the fifth time to get a 10x to bonus on the uk cruiser line.

 

What is so very dissapointing, again, is I love carriers, aviation and submarines in general. But the stuff Lesta comes up with has so little to do with what I love about them, that I cant be arsed.

You know, I think I underestimated you there a bit. And I also think I finally understand at least where you´re coming from.

 

That said... is there a submarine or a carrier game you recommend for comparison? I´m curious. Something of which you say "yeah, not perfect, but close enough" as I doubt there are games that truely magnificently catch the good bits of a submarine / cv experience in a playable fashion.

But if you can point me in the right direction - I´d like to learn something.

 

2 hours ago, SmegTheNoob said:

Even if I ran out of other ships to research.

I would still NEVER play a stupid Submarine or a Carrier.

Fair enough, not all vessels in this game are for everyone.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

2 minutes ago, Varian_Dorn said:

truely magnificently catch the good bits of a submarine /

Cold Waters

[Maskofs]

I'm asking if they add something new into maps, like naval mines .

With Naval Mines , submarine players will be more  careful and start manage to handle that kind of traps .

Traps will not be placed in full map, but it will be in both team sides ; that give both teams to be more careful passing that side 

also the underwater Structure need to be harder by adding a strait in different place in map

[lovelacebeer]

1 hour ago, Varian_Dorn said:

 

That said... is there a submarine or a carrier game you recommend for comparison? I´m curious. Something of which you say "yeah, not perfect, but close enough" as I doubt there are games that truely magnificently catch the good bits of a submarine / cv experience in a playable fashion.

Cannot speak for CV games, but on submarines as has already been suggested there is Cold Waters, and also Silent Hunter 3  both are a lot of fun and vastly superior submarine games when compared to what Lesta have created.