General Submarines related discussions

[RamboCras]

A sub breaks through the center (undefended).

 

He spots me, I can't spot him. He shoots his torps, I use Repair and avoid them.

 

Now my repair is hold and he fires more torps and more torps, I turn on my hydro but I can't avoid the torps, I can't see the sub. Can't fight, can't defend. I blindly drop my depth charges somewhere in the line where he should be somewhere (why ping thing) but miss.

 

I am a cruiser with hydro, WHY the [edited]can't I defend myself against a sub?? How [edited]broken is this. [edited]Harry potter homing torps.....

 

 

[TheNubination]

By Allah, the devil must be behind Balao giving its proverbial sails wind. 
Even my thread could not survive his trickery. 

 

What can a lone DD do against such an overwhelming force.

[Itwastuesday]

4 hours ago, RamboCras said:

A sub breaks through the center (undefended).

 

He spots me, I can't spot him. He shoots his torps, I use Repair and avoid them.

 

Now my repair is hold and he fires more torps and more torps, I turn on my hydro but I can't avoid the torps, I can't see the sub. Can't fight, can't defend. I blindly drop my depth charges somewhere in the line where he should be somewhere (why ping thing) but miss.

 

I am a cruiser with hydro, WHY the [edited]can't I defend myself against a sub?? How [edited]broken is this. [edited]Harry potter homing torps.....

 

 

Because cruisers are supposed to be the universal victim class. 

[locoelgordo]

What's the limit on Blacklist entries? Mine is growing awfully large!

[Hades_warrior]

3 hours ago, locoelgordo said:

What's the limit on Blacklist entries? Mine is growing awfully large!

Dont know (yet). Mine is also getting bigger and bigger.

 

One thing worse than a sub who is focusing you until you die is sub that is also mocking you in chat.

[Dutchy_2019]

8 hours ago, Hades_warrior said:

Dont know (yet). Mine is also getting bigger and bigger.

 

One thing worse than a sub who is focusing you until you die is sub that is also mocking you in chat.

 

That would be an IMMEDIATE report, not only automated, but also Customer Service (violation of EULA).

Although there are some on this board who say that subs are not played by griefers and are not a perfect class for griefers.

 

[Corpsetaker]

Hello,

 

@Seraphice

@SkipperCH

@YabbaCoe

 

Just wanted to aim this post from you at you for a moment.

 

 

Wargaming has created a class that is broken. This is not some opinion or just people not liking the class but a genuine complaint against a class of ship that is mechanically broken. First of all why do you think it's okay to insult the players by downplaying this to just opinion? Secondly how dare you have the gall to say people shouldn't abuse the report system and harass submarine players but they are allowed to harass you by playing a broken ship you cannot counter at times? What is a CV supposed to do against a submarine or even ships like a Kearsarge who have no depth charge abilities? How is that not harassment when a submarine can go from spawn to the other end of the map completely undetected and wipe you out? Explain to me please how that is not harassment? Genuine question.

[SkipperCH]

To be honest - This post contains more constructive critic than most posts in both threads regarding the topic. If the critic would have stayed civilized in this manner it wouldn‘t have been an issue. But we can‘t dedicate people just to watch and clean up 1 thread. 

 

Regarding the topic - Subs are (in theory) still in a testing phase. I can understand certain frustrations. But venting such aggressions towards players is the wrong solution in my opinion. Since this frustration usually doesn‘t stop with simply being angry, but often results in verbal aggressions or unsporting behaviour. 

[Corpsetaker]

2 minutes ago, SkipperCH said:

To be honest - This post contains more constructive critic than most posts in both threads regarding the topic. If the critic would have stayed civilized in this manner it wouldn‘t have been an issue. But we can‘t dedicate people just to watch and clean up 1 thread. 

 

Regarding the topic - Subs are (in theory) still in a testing phase. I can understand certain frustrations. But venting such aggressions towards players is the wrong solution in my opinion. Since this frustration usually doesn‘t stop with simply being angry, but often results in verbal aggressions or unsporting behaviour. 

Hello,

 

Skipper I find it a bit insulting from Wargaming staff that try and downplay the issue. I understand they are still in the testing phase but why aren't they restricted to the testing server? People first of all don't want to be guinea pigs to test a broken ship and secondly why do you think it's okay to waste people's money when they use it to buy those resource packages only to get sunk by a submarine in which you had no counterplay? I mean it's unsporting behaviour, according to you, to report a player for playing a broken and failed class but it's not unsporting for a player to play said and proven broken and failed class. Help me understand this please. 

[ghostbuster_]

16 minutes ago, SkipperCH said:

To be honest - This post contains more constructive critic than most posts in both threads regarding the topic.

The problem is, we have been giving constructive feedback for years but for what exactly? I am at a point where I dont even bother giving constructive feedback anymore since I know in WGs eyes it has the same value with a complete rant. 

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If the critic would have stayed civilized in this manner it wouldn‘t have been an issue. But we can‘t dedicate people just to watch and clean up 1 thread.

I find it amusing that you can dedicate people to clean up other threads but when it comes to topics like subs or CVs or any other "sensitive" topic, you just close it. And it must be a coincidence that every "sensitive" topic is about something WG messed up really badly. 

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Regarding the topic - Subs are (in theory) still in a testing phase.

yes. first test was in 2019.  (Sorry, first test was back in 2018 during the halloween event) still being tested and WG still trying to ram them into the game. 

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I can understand certain frustrations. But venting such aggressions towards players is the wrong solution in my opinion. Since this frustration usually doesn‘t stop with simply being angry, but often results in verbal aggressions or unsporting behaviour. 

How is reporting a sub player straight away going to result in verbal aggressions or unsporting behaviour? 

The only aggression comes from sub players after baiting them in chat. many of them take the bait and start the aggression in chat and which is perfect because it allows us to report them ofr misbehaviour in chat.  As I said. its like a minigame within a game. 

[SkipperCH]

The problem with the PTS and the possibility to handle them like regular test ships is the amount of data needed. On the PTS the player population is to small and inconsistent to get enough data. Same is true for internal testing solely among the supertesters. And also true for a live test with only the supertesters. Yes, we have 2 submarines in live testing available only to testers, but these submarines have specific properties that differ from the regular ones. 

 

I can absolutely understand anybodies frustration about the situation. But I can‘t offer a solution to it though. All I can do is explain why certain things are how they are. 

[ghostbuster_]

13 minutes ago, SkipperCH said:

The problem with the PTS and the possibility to handle them like regular test ships is the amount of data needed. On the PTS the player population is to small and inconsistent to get enough data. Same is true for internal testing solely among the supertesters. And also true for a live test with only the supertesters. Yes, we have 2 submarines in live testing available only to testers, but these submarines have specific properties that differ from the regular ones. 

 

I can absolutely understand anybodies frustration about the situation. But I can‘t offer a solution to it though. All I can do is explain why certain things are how they are. 

I doubt it. 

[NewHorizons_1]

46 minutes ago, SkipperCH said:

The problem with the PTS and the possibility to handle them like regular test ships is the amount of data needed.

The problem appears to be WG wants a quantity of data, not quality.

What many players would have liked is a separate mode, so players could have opted in to testing subs - either fighting with or fighting against subs.

That certainly would have garnered a much better reception from the player base.

That, coupled with making subs much harder** to access, probably would have yielded much better data.

From what many can see, subs are being balanced around them being far too freely accessible and thus the data garnered from them is of questionable value.

 

** IMHO, The missions to unlock subs should have been restricted to tech-tree destroyers of the same tier.

Maybe also limit submarine access to co-op if they used co-op to unlock the sub.

That way a new/inexperienced player would not have been able to play some co-op battles in a freebie T6 Warspite, or buy their way in via a T8 Tirpitz, and then leapfrog to T10 randoms in a Balao.

A submarine player would have had to earn, and demonstrate some skill, before they got access to them.

That player then could have used that skill to far better demonstrate the strengths and weaknesses of the class.

 

Edit : Typos & context.

 

[Corpsetaker]

17 minutes ago, SkipperCH said:

The problem with the PTS and the possibility to handle them like regular test ships is the amount of data needed.

Hello,

 

Then why have a test server to begin with if it's so inefficient? Why do you still test other ships in that as well as closed testing? How much more data do you actually need anyway? It's been what 4 years and they are still as broken as ever. 

[SkipperCH]

The testserver itself serves the purpose to identify bugs before the game version gets released. Like graphical glitches or game crashes. About the submarine test itself - I personally don‘t know what data WG is currently after or how long this will take and which measures will be taken in general. This is the only intel I have. 

[Corpsetaker]

5 hours ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

The problem appears to be WG wants a quantity of data, not quality.

What many players would have liked is a separate mode, so players could have opted in to testing subs - either fighting with or fighting against subs.

That certainly would have garnered a much better reception from the player base.

That, coupled with making subs much harder** to access, probably would have yielded much better data.

From what many can see, subs are being balanced around them being far too freely accessible and thus the data garnered from them is of questionable value.

 

** IMHO, The missions for subs should have been restricted to tech-tree destroyers of the same tier.

Maybe also limit submarine access to co-op if they used co-op to unlock the sub.

That way you would not have been able to play some co-op battles in a freebie T6 Warspite, or buy your way in via a T8 Tirpitz, and then leapfrog your T10 randoms in a Balao.

A submarine player would have had to earn, and demonstrate some skill, before they got access to them.

 

 

Hello,

 

This ^^^ 

 

You wouldn't see a car manufacturer having tests open to everyone in order to gather data on their newest prototype cars, they would most likely hire driving experts because of the quality of data. 

[Dutchy_2019]

2 minutes ago, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

Then why have a test server to begin with if it's so inefficient? Why do you still test other ships in that as well as closed testing? How much more data do you actually need anyway? It's been what 4 years and they are still as broken as ever. 

 

Test server is used to test many other features, other than ships.

 

Why subs are in testing so long? IMHO ego's on some people in the Dev Team and management, and sunken cost fallacy (to which they ad more sunken cost, and now the sunken cost is even a public justification to force subs into the game).

[Corpsetaker]

1 minute ago, SkipperCH said:

The testserver itself serves the purpose to identify bugs before the game version gets released. Like graphical glitches or game crashes. About the submarine test itself - I personally don‘t know what data WG is currently after or how long this will take and which measures will be taken in general. This is the only intel I have. 

Hello,

 

Frustration for submarines doesn't come from opinion - it comes from the fact that the class itself is broken and Wargaming just will not listen. I want to play the game again and spend money but submarines keep me from doing that. 

[NewHorizons_1]

31 minutes ago, Corpsetaker said:

You wouldn't see a car manufacturer having tests open to everyone in order to gather data on their newest prototype cars, they would most likely higher driving experts because of the quality of data. 

Some car manufacturers, eg Porsche, don't like to sell their cars to inexperienced drivers.

When I workmate of mine bought his, he went on a very rigorous driving course on a race track.

[ghostbuster_]

9 minutes ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Some car manufacturers, eg Porsche, don't like to sell their cars to inexperienced drivers.

When I workmate of mine bought is, he went on a very rigorous driving course on a race track.

speaking of car manufacturers, lets take a look at the validation tests of parts which should be done by any supplier. you can do as many tests as you want, unless you do those tests in an accredited laboratory, your test results are not accepted and you can not get the validation for the parts you produce resulting not being able to get note 1 for your parts which means you can not supply the series. 

[NewHorizons_1]

5 hours ago, Corpsetaker said:

 I want to play the game again and spend money but submarines keep me from doing that. 

Same here.

I've not spent a penny since it became apparent that WG is buffing subs to cope with mediocre quality of most sub players that is the source of their test data.

 

[tom_kat]

1 hour ago, SkipperCH said:

The testserver itself serves the purpose to identify bugs before the game version gets released. Like graphical glitches or game crashes. About the submarine test itself - I personally don‘t know what data WG is currently after or how long this will take and which measures will be taken in general. This is the only intel I have. 

I don't know if you are talking by what you know or what you had been told. We suffered, and still suffering, from a lot of game issues, for example the collisions with submarine world that are supposed to be "tested" on the assigned server. The tests are poor, the testers are few, the fixes, when they come, are late or a mix of all.

Said that, what I can't understand, from the consumer perspective (and as a IT worker, but mostly as a consumer), it's the fact tha this company keeps on putting on production some code, functions or changes that are not tested properly, with the consecuent issues in the normal function of the game.

Tell to the users of any streaming platform that they cannot use it correctly just because you are introducing some changes that are not still fully tested. Tell them too that they won't have any refund just because of the company bad decisions.

This is a free to play game, but here are people that have spend, and keep on spending, lots of money. Introducing changes that are not properly tested only because "some thinking head" though that selling submarines will attrack more players and potential buyers it's a very questionable enterprise politic.

And, btw, I won't comment anything on the "feedback received" thing, just remembered how the public polls results were deleted from the Wargaming Discord, like any result from the playerbase opinion.

[Hades_warrior]

2 hours ago, SkipperCH said:

I can understand certain frustrations.

Oh, really?

Than why you were (or still are) confused with why people reporting them in the first place?

 

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But venting such aggressions towards players is the wrong solution in my opinion.

That is your opinion. And you are probably in minority.

 

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Since this frustration usually doesn‘t stop with simply being angry, but often results in verbal aggressions or unsporting behaviour. 

Yes. Sadly but yes. Believe it or not some of us dont like to insult anyone in battles. We dont find pleasure or fun in that. Atleast I dont.

So I dont feel comfortable when im forced to use such a language. But you obviously dont understand how far these broken classes frustrate people.

 

But speaking of pleasure and fun, sub player do find it amusing when they do what they do to others. In chat after they kill someone and mocking them.

So much about harassments in this game...

[Hades_warrior]

1 hour ago, NewHorizons_1 said:

Same here.

I've not spent a penny since it came apparent that WG is buffing subs

And same here.

I also stop spending money on them since subs came.

[ItsEyeJasper]

1 hour ago, SkipperCH said:

The testserver itself serves the purpose to identify bugs before the game version gets released.

No negative feelings aimed at you mate. But Hahaha Lol The irony of this comment , Funniest comment i have seen in a while just because the last release introduced how-many Aiming system bugs  that were not picked up? Its a meme. 

While i do agree that subs cannot be tested on PTS due to the population. One could simply Allow us to chose whether we want to be guinea pigs or not. You will soon realize that the silent majority wants no part of this class, but the dead horse needs to be beaten.