General Submarines related discussions

[Seraphice]

On 8/6/2022 at 4:37 PM, ghostbuster_ said:

@Seraphice @YabbaCoe how do you expect, that a member of the famous "silent majority" know about that survey? Because according you, they only play the game and dont read anything about the game. If you really cared about feedback, you would take the one and only way; making it an ingame survey and mandatory to do before being able to play any gamemod. Just saying.

We actually do distribute the survey in various ways, even sometimes with in-game pop-ups. However we have no intention of making surveys mandatory.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

[ghostbuster_]

9 minutes ago, Seraphice said:

We actually do distribute the survey in various ways, even sometimes with in-game pop-ups. However we have no intention of making surveys mandatory.

Why not? it would make sure that everyone incluiding the silent majority gives their feedback. unless you want the silent majority to remain as they are, silent. 

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 28 Minuten, ghostbuster_ sagte:

Why not? it would make sure that everyone incluiding the silent majority gives their feedback. unless you want the silent majority to remain as they are, silent. 

Forced surveys would reduce the reliability and quality of answers, because if people don't actually want to fill the survey, they might just choose the first or a random answer everywhere and be done with it. That's also why rewards for surveys is a difficult topic.

[ghostbuster_]

2 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Forced surveys would reduce the reliability and quality of answers, because if people don't actually want to fill the survey, they might just choose the first or a random answer everywhere and be done with it. That's also why rewards for surveys is a difficult topic.

thats why you had to keep questions and asnwers as short as possible. something like that for example: 

 

rate Subs in randoms: 

"here can be a bar from 1 to 10" and player can chose one number from that. 

 

I understand your point tho.

[JohnMac79]

2 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Forced surveys would reduce the reliability and quality of answers, because if people don't actually want to fill the survey, they might just choose the first or a random answer everywhere and be done with it. That's also why rewards for surveys is a difficult topic.

Yet handing our surveys that can be completed an infinite amount of times by the same person doesnt reduce the reliability or quality?

 

Would be much more reliable to have them ingame tied to an account.

[Stormhawk_V]

Good to see that submerged submarines can't spot each other unintentionally any more. In my DDs I get unintentionally spotted by the enemy DD all the time when I try to take caps. Good thing that won't happen to me in submarines in the future. I think the game would be a lot better if we had to give our consent before an enemy player can spot us.

 

Edit:

This is the kind of stuff that makes it hard for me to take the game (or the developers) seriously. I read the reasons they give us to justify their decisions and I hear my braincells cry out in pain.

[SirAmra]

On 8/7/2022 at 7:21 PM, JohnMac79 said:

Bad players will always exist in all games, multiplayer or single player, thats fine. The problem occurs when they have such a lack of self awareness that they think they can call others bad. If you dont see the issue here i dont know what else to say.

The whole reason I used xvm in wot in the end before I quit, was to call them out on this.

And honestly in most wot/wows chats. The unicum levels are impressive until you check them..................just to troll.

Stupid is and stupid does.

[SirAmra]

7 hours ago, Seraphice said:

We actually do distribute the survey in various ways, even sometimes with in-game pop-ups. However we have no intention of making surveys mandatory.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

If you want a survey to give you proper results, you actually need to get as many as possible to respond.

The fewer people who responds the more skewed it gets to either side.

Like I voted no on playing subs, that's it, no other question needed. I did not fall into the right category, and that's wrong.

Your questions should then be "why".....not bye bye.

I've played WG games since 2011. Been tester for 2 of them, and you as a company have an awfull history of balancing stuff.

You have yet not been able to balance CVs, and I've been there since you introduced them.

And we are now 2 years into your sub effort and 2 years into the CV/AA rework. It's still an awfull mess.

But I answered "No" on subs, so my reasoning to why is not needed. No need to know it's a broken class, and you can not balance it at all.

 

[COPlUM]

21 hours ago, Stormhawk_V said:

In my DDs I get unintentionally spotted by the enemy DD all the time when I try to take caps. I think the game would be a lot better if we had to give our consent before an enemy player can spot us.

Not a bad idea, hakuryu and nevsky should ask DD captains for their consent first. That's how submarines work, it's how destroyers should work too. No spotting without consent!

[Verdaechtig]

Am 8.8.2022 um 13:03, Commander_Cornflakes sagte:

Forced surveys would reduce the reliability and quality of answers, because if people don't actually want to fill the survey, they might just choose the first or a random answer everywhere and be done with it. That's also why rewards for surveys is a difficult topic.

 

Am 8.8.2022 um 12:23, Seraphice sagte:

We actually do distribute the survey in various ways, even sometimes with in-game pop-ups. However we have no intention of making surveys mandatory.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

 

Exactly how do you "distribute" the surveys? Can you tell us or is this a big company secret?

Because I have a weird feeling that you especially ask the people who play them *caugh*. And not the people who have to endure/suffer/fear/avoid/justdodge them.

[Dutchy_2019]

14 hours ago, Verdaechtig said:

 

 

Exactly how do you "distribute" the surveys? Can you tell us or is this a big company secret?

Because I have a weird feeling that you especially ask the people who play them *caugh*. And not the people who have to endure/suffer/fear/avoid/justdodge them.

 

They do not - as I have seen the survey request in my port on various occasions and on all of my accounts. And I have not played subs recently, except on PTS.

[JohnMac79]

Again and again, dominated by 45% WR players in subs, if only WG played their own game and realised how up this class is.

[Captain_Lootbox]

are we meant to report subs in our own team or just the ones in the enemy team?

[The_Narai_Legend]

52 minutes ago, Captain_Lootbox said:

are we meant to report subs in our own team or just the ones in the enemy team?

Report these co c k suckers and friendly fire them whenever possible.

[Itwastuesday]

Submarines will make any sort of cap-contesting or knifefight dd go extinct. You can't play into something that spots you permanently and is unkillable. 

 

Get out your Asashios, Tashkents, Elbings and 20km Shima boys! 

[yXOLAXy]

1 ora fa, Itwastuesday ha detto:

I sottomarini faranno estinguere qualsiasi tipo di cap-contesting o knifefight dd. Non puoi giocare in qualcosa che ti individua in modo permanente ed è indistruttibile.

 

Esci dai tuoi Ragazzi Asashios, Tashkents, Elbings e Shima da 20 km!

 stai dimenticando l'assurdità dei siluri che cambiano direzione

[Pukovnik7]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:23 PM, Seraphice said:

We actually do distribute the survey in various ways, even sometimes with in-game pop-ups. However we have no intention of making surveys mandatory.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

So you want an excuse to be able to ignore the surveys and say "this isn't really what the players want, this is fine".

 

That's dumb.

 

[JohnMac79]

58 minutes ago, Pukovnik7 said:

So you want an excuse to be able to ignore the surveys and say "this isn't really what the players want, this is fine".

 

That's dumb.

 

 

Indeed, they can keep pretending they have this secret information that says its only a minority that hate subs and CVs. Even though every single survey ever opened on these forums are overwhelmingly negative towards both CV and subs. The only people that play subs and CV are bad players, or people that want to grief and make everyone elses game miserable.

 

All they do is keep buffing for popularity (making OP and/or potato proof) and giving them unfair advantages while claiming the majority are fine with them. Its an outrageous way to treat the community. It would be much better for them to come right and and tell us straight that they dont care what we think, they just want to milk us. We could then say that they are at least honest, instead of openly lying to us.

 

If they genuinely had data saying the majority are fine with them, they would squash this whole argument by presenting it. They would WANT us to see it.

[deathsadow]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:23 PM, Seraphice said:

We actually do distribute the survey in various ways, even sometimes with in-game pop-ups. However we have no intention of making surveys mandatory.

Fair seas captain!
~Sera

I seen quite some of the surveys you mentioned , but it was hardly about anything related to submarines.  I got loads of surveys about Brawls and Ranked , and a few about some events, but I didnt had the chance to express my utter dissapointment on the way you implemented subs. 

 

Dont get me wrong i dont hate on subs as an addition to the game, but the way you guys added it to WoWs is just horrible ... Homing torps , "Im safe " buttom, some ships cant even hurt me while i can sink them (say hello to NL CA or Kearsarge) in a PvP game.... seriously if this is what the peak skill of your dev team than you guys are in deep trouble.

 

Just as some hint:

• Players HATE if in a PvP game they cant fight back their enemy ... maybe just maybe this is the reason while we have Submarine and CV thread and not General Cruiser related discussions
• Players consider no-skill if something is homing & they will be hostile towards players who abuse that .. so your design just makes a really toxic experiance.
• Most player would probably love to play historic Operations with subs like Convoy or something like that.

[deathsadow]

On 8/13/2022 at 1:49 PM, Itwastuesday said:

Submarines will make any sort of cap-contesting or knifefight dd go extinct. You can't play into something that spots you permanently and is unkillable. 

 

Get out your Asashios, Tashkents, Elbings and 20km Shima boys! 

Cool part is that its not only make cap contesting DDs , but cap contesting cruisers vanish too, along with brawling BBs. Time to spam that HE max range and watch the world burn

 

God bless the Queen and her HE spamming Thunderers!

[TheNubination]

17 minutes ago, deathsadow said:

I seen quite some of the surveys you mentioned , but it was hardly about anything related to submarines.  I got loads of surveys about Brawls and Ranked , and a few about some events, but I didnt had the chance to express my utter dissapointment on the way you implemented subs. 

 

Dont get me wrong i dont hate on subs as an addition to the game, but the way you guys added it to WoWs is just horrible ... Homing torps , "Im safe " buttom, some ships cant even hurt me while i can sink them (say hello to NL CA or Kearsarge) in a PvP game.... seriously if this is what the peak skill of your dev team than you guys are in deep trouble.

 

Just as some hint:

• Players HATE if in a PvP game they cant fight back their enemy ... maybe just maybe this is the reason while we have Submarine and CV thread and not General Cruiser related discussions
• Players consider no-skill if something is homing & they will be hostile towards players who abuse that .. so your design just makes a really toxic experiance.
• Most player would probably love to play historic Operations with subs like Convoy or something like that.

Tell me darling, how does a BB "fight back" against a 20km Shima torping from the corner?


Without using that mysterious "team" assistance from friendly CVs, DDs, CLs, etc. Of course. Cause that argument goes the other way too. 

[deathsadow]

2 minutes ago, TheNubination said:

Tell me darling, how does a BB "fight back" against a 20km Shima torping from the corner?


Without using that mysterious "team" assistance from friendly CVs, DDs, CLs, etc. Of course. Cause that argument goes the other way too. 

1st 20km Shima torpedoes are not that hard to dodge.

2nd if you see the Shima you can hurt it with any of your shells ... now try to hurt a submerged sub with a Dutch cruiser , or enjoy some low tier ships who has no or a single Maxim as AA & than think again.

 

While yeah the Shimakaze has a huge adventage over the BB if the BB is not supported , but in case of subs some ships cant even hit them even if their team spots it for them ... as WG simply didnt give them ANY ASW.

[TheNubination]

Just now, deathsadow said:

1st 20km Shima torpedoes are not that hard to dodge.

2nd if you see the Shima you can hurt it with any of your shells ... now try to hurt a submerged sub with a Dutch cruiser , or enjoy some low tier ships who has no or a single Maxim as AA & than think again.

 

While yeah the Shimakaze has a huge adventage over the BB if the BB is not supported , but in case of subs some ships cant even hit them even if their team spots it for them ... as WG simply didnt give them ANY ASW.

I mean if you see a sub you can hit it too, its just that you arent gonna see it but then again youre never going to see that Shima in a 1v1 either.
Or worse a legendary upgrade Kleber or Gearing with the speed or smoke to perpetually evade the BB and even contest caps while torping from 8km and not 20.

 

 

The real problem is that this game has no real team play. There is no "commander", there is nobody voice chatting, there is no way to organize the team prior to battle, etc.  Its just a bunch of individual players at best playing according some basic ant-level hivemind thought patterns. 

So forcing a bunch of classes that depend on team play is a bit wrong if you do nothing to encourage teamplay.
 

[deathsadow]

3 minutes ago, TheNubination said:

I mean if you see a sub you can hit it too, its just that you arent gonna see it but then again youre never going to see that Shima in a 1v1 either.
Or worse a legendary upgrade Kleber or Gearing with the speed or smoke to perpetually evade the BB and even contest caps while torping from 8km and not 20.

 

 

The real problem is that this game has no real team play. There is no "commander", there is nobody voice chatting, there is no way to organize the team prior to battle, etc.  Its just a bunch of individual players at best playing according some basic ant-level hivemind thought patterns. 

So forcing a bunch of classes that depend on team play is a bit wrong if you do nothing to encourage teamplay.
 

You are wrong on that one, in case if you are in a Dutch cruiser or in a Kearsarge you cannot hit the submarine  even if your team spots it for you. WG just didnt give them the anti sub airstrike or the depth charges, which is beyond stupid for a design in a PvP game.

[TheNubination]

2 minutes ago, deathsadow said:

You are wrong on that one, in case if you are in a Dutch cruiser or in a Kearsarge you cannot hit the submarine  even if your team spots it for you. WG just didnt give them the anti sub airstrike or the depth charges, which is beyond stupid for a design in a PvP game.

 

Well you can if its surfaced. You cant hit any ship if various parameters arent in your favour like distance, cover, and now we have depth I guess.

But yeah, it feels like crap getting torped from close range and not being able to shoot. I agree.