General Submarines related discussions

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

5 minutes ago, COPlUM said:

Wait, what's that? Your guns turned 360° while doing this rendering you useless for another 2~3 minutes? Man, sucks to be you. Should have left that submarine alone.

It will give little solace but using free look, in my setup RMB, will make using airdropped ASW on surface ships more comfortabe. Pun intended tm.

[ghostbuster_]

yesterday when I was playing my lightning, I met the new sub (I believe its still in testing, right?) I- something which has 140mm main gun which shoots SAP. 

 

He surfaced to shoot me with his gun when:

• I was sailing away from him,
• I had s. ton of suppost including 2 div mates right behind me who could potentially shoot at him once he got spotted and surfaced + who could drop dept charged.
• I wasnt really in danger of getting damaged by his teammates. the only "danger" was a congress at 10. something km. 

and yet that sub player decided to surface and start open gunboating me. He died really quick.

was pretty funny and showed exactly how "good" the sub players are. 

[Corpsetaker]

2 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

yesterday when I was playing my lightning, I met the new sub (I believe its still in testing, right?) I- something which has 140mm main gun which shoots SAP. 

 

He surfaced to shoot me with his gun when:

• I was sailing away from him,
• I had s. ton of suppost including 2 div mates right behind me who could potentially shoot at him once he got spotted and surfaced + who could drop dept charged.
• I wasnt really in danger of getting damaged by his teammates. the only "danger" was a congress at 10. something km. 

and yet that sub player decided to surface and start open gunboating me. He died really quick.

was pretty funny and showed exactly how "good" the sub players are. 

Hello,

 

In my opinion Wargaming is probably going to now buff the submarine so it can survive longer using it's deck gun.

[WilliWankaChocoFab]

Submarines are great fun, having deck guns will be exciting.

[Submerged_Hitman]

I see the hate for subs is still thick and strong!!     Even though they've been getting slowly nerfed over the months and the whole reason for introducing them like this was to do exactly that and balance them but still, who reads dev blogs when you can read forums and cry here instead!  

Subs are just about ready imo, and im Unicum stats in them at this point, they're getting harder to use, which they should be, you really have to plan ahead to make the most out of them.   Homing torps are easily avoided and the Subs are brittle as hell against Depth charges, ive been insta killed many times at this point by groups of charges coming at me from all over which is where the planning comes in!   Yes I regularly get 150k plus dmg and many kills per match but then again its not like I just sail, dive, then shotgun.  Do that and you'll do dmg sure but you'll also die real fast,  5 min 3 secs dive time in a Balao is not much when you have to think where you're gonna be when that batt runs out!!  

One major gripe I have is sub vs sub warfare,  I can get 4 torps hitting a U boat in my Balao and hes still alive???   Nah thats not right however you look at it.   But apart from that I love them, my Karma is zero as I get reported every game (for playing a ship available in the game ........)  Which is hilarious and just spurs me on as clearly im doing something right lol!   

Got a problem dealing with subs?   Biggest tip I can give is use the map and just think, its a strategy game after all, leave a big hole in the middle of the map and of course im gonna go through it and wreak havoc.

After a 1000 or so games in the Balao I can say there are plenty of people out there who know how to deal with subs as theyve killed me many times using the right strats against me, many other players however .... just panic and run if they see a sub or worse, play as a dd and charge straight at me ...... big mistake lol   

[VenividiviciNL]

On 6/23/2022 at 1:16 PM, Fastmotion said:

Your opinion doesn't have any adequate proof so i hope you understand that people don't consider much such opinions.

I think that people have wrong understandings about the term Knowledge. Your football example contains a number 45 which you could replace with my phrase " some evenings ". Do you think that people won't understand football after some evenings? Can you give some evidence to such belief. They know that there is a ball and you have to hit it and there are few rules and that's it. This is the Knowledge and contains 99% of the available knowledge. What you have in your mind is to be on the professional level in football but that professional competitive level is not an entertainment compared to Wows and friendly saturday football so it is irrelevant to talk about rare professional level. The professional level player has the same amount of the game knowledge but he just have something more that is not a Knowledge. We can talk about it in a different topic later. In the ship game the goal is to entertain people and few evenings give all the knowledge for that. There is a famous belief i nthe community that Stats equals knowledge and also Stats determines whose opinion is the truth. Well, if you are part of the community then obviously you follow such attitude and that makes sufferings and false believes. For example you believe that i am wrong but you are not able to prove it. The explanation is probably that your believes have no reasoning/logics and they are like adopted facts if to express so. Like "the word War is bad and pork and subs/Cvs are bad and the game has lot of knowledge"- you never doupt if such believes can be wrong and therefore different opinions looks wrong to you but you can't ever prove it of course. I suggest such exercise: try to think which your opinion differs from you community's (allowed) opinions? Is there anything different or not? If you can't find anything different then very likely your and your community believes are brainwashed false believes or how to express i nEnglish. So, i suggest to doupt if you say that i am wrong. And secondly, i suggest to feel chill if i have different opinions. For example i feel relaxed when i know that i have opposite opinions compared your community.

Hi mate, are you on medication or so? 

 

By reading your posts I sincerly advise you to change the dosis you take as I really can't understand what you are writing. 

 

But it is great to see you ingame as you wrote some where in the CV thread that you were going to stop playing WoWs as no one understood what you were writing there (too).

 

Peace,  my brother. No War!!!   

[lovelacebeer]

I can easily see the manual deck guns being a great noob trap. Whilst  in dedicated submarine games the deck gun is a vital tool for attacking civilian transports, wows rarely provides civilian targets.
 

So I can easily see comical situations of bad submarine players over extending surfacing in their desperation to gunboat and suffering the consequences. 
 

Also balance wise I do not envy WG the Pandora’s box they have opened. With higher calibre deck guns like on HMS M1 (12”) and Surcouf ( twin 8”) they will have a hell of a time balancing rate of fire vs damage. In fact this single issue is why Crysantos said adding the Courageous class with their 18 inch guns  would be a bad idea how do you balance such a ship with only 1 or 2 guns vs rate of fire, damage and accuracy. 

[ghostbuster_]

I also find it hilarious that JB has 5 km ASW range. good good very good. 5 km more than what she needs I guess. 

 

btw. 

"Improvements" 

 

ok, look guys, from now on, its forbidden to ask WG for any sort of improvements, ok? Because clearly they have a very different understanding when it comes to something being improved. 

[Corpsetaker]

20 hours ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

I see the hate for subs is still thick and strong!!     Even though they've been getting slowly nerfed over the months and the whole reason for introducing them like this was to do exactly that and balance them but still, who reads dev blogs when you can read forums and cry here instead!  

Subs are just about ready imo, and im Unicum stats in them at this point, they're getting harder to use, which they should be, you really have to plan ahead to make the most out of them.   Homing torps are easily avoided and the Subs are brittle as hell against Depth charges, ive been insta killed many times at this point by groups of charges coming at me from all over which is where the planning comes in!   Yes I regularly get 150k plus dmg and many kills per match but then again its not like I just sail, dive, then shotgun.  Do that and you'll do dmg sure but you'll also die real fast,  5 min 3 secs dive time in a Balao is not much when you have to think where you're gonna be when that batt runs out!!  

One major gripe I have is sub vs sub warfare,  I can get 4 torps hitting a U boat in my Balao and hes still alive???   Nah thats not right however you look at it.   But apart from that I love them, my Karma is zero as I get reported every game (for playing a ship available in the game ........)  Which is hilarious and just spurs me on as clearly im doing something right lol!   

Got a problem dealing with subs?   Biggest tip I can give is use the map and just think, its a strategy game after all, leave a big hole in the middle of the map and of course im gonna go through it and wreak havoc.

After a 1000 or so games in the Balao I can say there are plenty of people out there who know how to deal with subs as theyve killed me many times using the right strats against me, many other players however .... just panic and run if they see a sub or worse, play as a dd and charge straight at me ...... big mistake lol   

Hello,

 

The problem with submarines overall is the concept as it cannot be balanced. There is no other ship in the game that works in a feast or famine manner. Submarines either put other ships in an unavoidable situation where they are either sunk or close to it with no counter or they are worse than an AFK. 

 

If after fours years of trying to force that square peg into the round hole and it still doesn't fit then it's time to admit defeat.

[SV_Kompresor]

20 hours ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

-something stupid-

Even if subs were perfectly balanced (they're not btw) it would make no difference. If fighting against them causes nothing but frustration, then they're not fit for the game.

[Submerged_Hitman]

1 hour ago, SV_Kompresor said:

Even if subs were perfectly balanced (they're not btw) it would make no difference. If fighting against them causes nothing but frustration, then they're not fit for the game.

I never said they were but they're way better now than 5 months ago, I definitely don't want to play any ship that's just ridiculous and I agree they need more tweaks but the problem I see is more of a lack of teamplay than actual balance.    I only mention how many games played etc so ppl know  its from real experience not just a few games here or there.   The teams that work to control the map over the various game modes and dont yolo in or push for no reason etc are the teams subs do worst against as picking your way through really takes thought and effort especially to survive after youve got through.  I agree that sub players who just rush in and shotgun a BB is frustrating but the same can be said for any yolo player.    You say fighting causes nothing but frustration then theyre not fit for the game?  So I take it you feel the same about CV's?   As since ive played not a day goes by when someone doesnt complain about them, after years of them being in the game, they developed a huge underwater map to add subs so complaining about them just because theyre in the game is pointless.   

Think about this, if youd never heard of this game and were asked the question, Which ship classes took part in WW1 and 2?     Youd say the same as me and nearly everyone else.   Aircraft carriers, Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Destroyers and Submarines.   The developers learnt loads from the CV "Issue"  I dont have an issue with CVs and im not exactly a noob I just adjust my playstyle if theres one in the match!  Thats why we have all these Sub updates using a massive player base before theyre released in the tech tree,  GJ  WG!

[SV_Kompresor]

5 minutes ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

You say fighting causes nothing but frustration then theyre not fit for the game?  So I take it you feel the same about CV's? 

Yes, yes I do. The only difference is that there are (though very radical) ways of making CVs fit the game, even if that's unlikely to ever happen. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

50 minutes ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

I never said they were but they're way better now than 5 months ago, I definitely don't want to play any ship that's just ridiculous and I agree they need more tweaks but the problem I see is more of a lack of teamplay than actual balance.    I only mention how many games played etc so ppl know  its from real experience not just a few games here or there.   The teams that work to control the map over the various game modes and dont yolo in or push for no reason etc are the teams subs do worst against as picking your way through really takes thought and effort especially to survive after youve got through.  I agree that sub players who just rush in and shotgun a BB is frustrating but the same can be said for any yolo player.    You say fighting causes nothing but frustration then theyre not fit for the game?  So I take it you feel the same about CV's?   As since ive played not a day goes by when someone doesnt complain about them, after years of them being in the game, they developed a huge underwater map to add subs so complaining about them just because theyre in the game is pointless.   

Think about this, if youd never heard of this game and were asked the question, Which ship classes took part in WW1 and 2?     Youd say the same as me and nearly everyone else.   Aircraft carriers, Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Destroyers and Submarines.   The developers learnt loads from the CV "Issue"  I dont have an issue with CVs and im not exactly a noob I just adjust my playstyle if theres one in the match!  Thats why we have all these Sub updates using a massive player base before theyre released in the tech tree,  GJ  WG!

You totally want to play a ship that's just ridiculous according to your in-balao-i'm-pretty-much-unicum-you-donkeys brag.

[010ghosty010]

Submarines are stupid took me 24 depth charges to kill it.  thats whit 3k flooding dmg. 

while hes hiding not getting shot im dodgeing 4 enemy ships and planes  at the same time. 

compleetly unbalanced. No risk gameplay on a Sub. while other ships need to keep them self exposed trying to kill a sub. 

[lovelacebeer]

Out of curiosity has anyone tried out the new camera angle for ASW over on the PTS? 
 

The only reason I ask is I really struggle with using it, whilst being able to drop ASW so close to my ship is very handy it’s an absolute nightmare trying to use it at long range. With the sudden change of angle I loose my bearings on where the ping appeared and am firing even more blind ( I say even more as the ping is still only in the vague vicinity of the sub).

[Dutchy_2019]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:26 PM, TDRHitmanDan said:

I see the hate for subs is still thick and strong!!     Even though they've been getting slowly nerfed over the months and the whole reason for introducing them like this was to do exactly that and balance them but still, who reads dev blogs when you can read forums and cry here instead!  

Subs are just about ready imo, and im Unicum stats in them at this point, they're getting harder to use, which they should be, you really have to plan ahead to make the most out of them.   Homing torps are easily avoided and the Subs are brittle as hell against Depth charges, ive been insta killed many times at this point by groups of charges coming at me from all over which is where the planning comes in!   Yes I regularly get 150k plus dmg and many kills per match but then again its not like I just sail, dive, then shotgun.  Do that and you'll do dmg sure but you'll also die real fast,  5 min 3 secs dive time in a Balao is not much when you have to think where you're gonna be when that batt runs out!!  

One major gripe I have is sub vs sub warfare,  I can get 4 torps hitting a U boat in my Balao and hes still alive???   Nah thats not right however you look at it.   But apart from that I love them, my Karma is zero as I get reported every game (for playing a ship available in the game ........)  Which is hilarious and just spurs me on as clearly im doing something right lol!   

Got a problem dealing with subs?   Biggest tip I can give is use the map and just think, its a strategy game after all, leave a big hole in the middle of the map and of course im gonna go through it and wreak havoc.

After a 1000 or so games in the Balao I can say there are plenty of people out there who know how to deal with subs as theyve killed me many times using the right strats against me, many other players however .... just panic and run if they see a sub or worse, play as a dd and charge straight at me ...... big mistake lol   

 

The simple fact that you are being able to put up (near) Unicum statistics in this class while being mediocre to (well) below average in EVERY other class shows how broken submarines actually are. If submarines were balanced, that difference should NOT be that big at all.

 

Subs being nerfed? Barely, and for every minor nerf, they seem to get a buff elsewhere.

 

• Many ships have NO (effective) ASW at all.
• NO class (other than subs) has an location marker that is DELIBERATELY made to NOT be accurate (but random). Where SUBSEQUENTLY it also takes a LONG time to get the ASW measures (if they can reach that location) that the sub could be everywhere.
• There is NO class that has a (near) unlimeted 'get out of jail free' - card like submarines have.
• Subs are the ONLY class that CANNOT detect each other by accident, by design.
• Subs are the only class that - again - by design - cannot be attacked by a large section of the enemy fleet even if their location is roughly known, since doing that would be absolute suicide. Even CV's can get CV-sniped early on.
• Subs are the LEAST detectable by hydro of ALL ships
• Oh, wait, we cannot give the torpedoes a dispersion that gives DDs or cruisers a reasonable chance to dodge them (unlike just about EVERY other torp spread in the game).

You complain about 4 torps NOT killing a sub? How about 18 depth charges? 

 

The only reason you can get murdered early in a sub is a serious mis-play on your part in combination with having the VERY bad luck that you are in effective range of enemy ASW (so you basically have to run into an enemy lemming train).

 

The examples of effective game counterplay you mention are effectively making the game LESS fun:

 

• PASSIVE play (which already IS a problem) is only encouraged.
• Homing torp dodging measures are the wrong thing to do vs the rest of the ships, including dodging DD torps
• Screening agains subs (not leaving a gap in the middle) is often the recipe to get murdered as you are single, alone, can easily be focused down in cross-fires and there usually is NO cover at all. O yeah, and as a sub you are NEVER outspotted by ANY ship, and you can become undetectable for the vast majority of them. The whole game mechanics and design effectively makes the counter play you advise IMPOSSIBLE. Better yet, most ships have no means to detect you ANYWAY. So all they would do is to expose themselves to get murdered without ANY benefit.
• Even a bad player in a submarine who is being an ultimate potato cannot be ignored or eliminated in a way that they can for EVERY other class (even CVs).

 

So - again - the subs as they are currently implemented are just a VERY bad design that in its implementation has more drawbacks than 

 

 

[Corpsetaker]

On 7/22/2022 at 2:01 PM, TDRHitmanDan said:

I never said they were but they're way better now than 5 months ago, I definitely don't want to play any ship that's just ridiculous and I agree they need more tweaks but the problem I see is more of a lack of teamplay than actual balance.    I only mention how many games played etc so ppl know  its from real experience not just a few games here or there.   The teams that work to control the map over the various game modes and dont yolo in or push for no reason etc are the teams subs do worst against as picking your way through really takes thought and effort especially to survive after youve got through.  I agree that sub players who just rush in and shotgun a BB is frustrating but the same can be said for any yolo player.    You say fighting causes nothing but frustration then theyre not fit for the game?  So I take it you feel the same about CV's?   As since ive played not a day goes by when someone doesnt complain about them, after years of them being in the game, they developed a huge underwater map to add subs so complaining about them just because theyre in the game is pointless.   

Think about this, if youd never heard of this game and were asked the question, Which ship classes took part in WW1 and 2?     Youd say the same as me and nearly everyone else.   Aircraft carriers, Battleships, Battlecruisers, Cruisers, Destroyers and Submarines.   The developers learnt loads from the CV "Issue"  I dont have an issue with CVs and im not exactly a noob I just adjust my playstyle if theres one in the match!  Thats why we have all these Sub updates using a massive player base before theyre released in the tech tree,  GJ  WG!

Hello,

 

[BanzaiPiluso]

I just got shotgunned to the face by a sub. I was on my Shima. Impossible to know the bastard was there, also the torp activation distance seems to be too short for subs. It should be increased, it is shorter than that for DDs.

 

[ARE_YOU_HUMAN]

This topic begs for all the insults in the world.

 

Imagine getting stabbed in the guts, and then getting asked how you feel. It's literally this pointless topic.

[deathsadow]

Is it just me or you guys also see that once the MM put a sub in the game literally noone, not even DDs are moving up towards the caps. The game is already too campy even without the subs on high tiers ... but if WG put in 1-2 sub and a CV you legit only going to see ships around the map edges.

 

Today i was playing the Drake in a MM like that and i was almost at the C caps edge, yet none of the enemy ships were in my guns range... yeah Drake is not that long range of a ship but that is still crazy.

[Submerged_Hitman]

On 7/22/2022 at 2:58 PM, Europizza said:

You totally want to play a ship that's just ridiculous according to your in-balao-i'm-pretty-much-unicum-you-donkeys brag.

Except that a told you my stats to show I know what im talking about and clearly in this instance the stats are correct lol!   Try reading all posts begfore commenting, thx

[Submerged_Hitman]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:05 AM, Corpsetaker said:

Hello,

 

No, just NO!!!   When you guys stop whinging about a ship thats in the game, the same as the CV whiner, I mean its been years and just because all you want to play with are DDs, CAs and BBs doesnt mean the Devs have to limit the gameplay that drastically!   CVs are here, stop moaning about it and learn to deal with them, Subs are here, stop moaning about it and start learning to deal with them :-)

[togMOR]

Vor 1 Stunde, TDRHitmanDan sagte:

doesnt mean the Devs have to limit the gameplay that drastically!

If the base game with all its core mechanics is built around interactions in a two-dimensional environment (yes, also CVs are operating in a 2D world at the end of the day) and one is trying to implement a threedimensional class with "unique" mechanics, which are partially contradicting the base mechanics, then there has to be a limit on that somehow.

 

[ghostbuster_]

15 hours ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

No, just NO!!!   When you guys stop whinging about a ship thats in the game, the same as the CV whiner, I mean its been years and just because all you want to play with are DDs, CAs and BBs doesnt mean the Devs have to limit the gameplay that drastically!   CVs are here, stop moaning about it and learn to deal with them, Subs are here, stop moaning about it and start learning to deal with them :-)

Thank you for showing us how much you understand this game 

 

Its actually sad to see that some people are uncapable to understand/see the problems this game has even after thousands of battles...

 

Btw. Guys this one here has found the fitting class to himself. thats why he has been trying to protect his precious new toy.  just look at his stats in surface ships. You will understand. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

18 hours ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

Except that a told you my stats to show I know what im talking about and clearly in this instance the stats are correct lol!   Try reading all posts begfore commenting, thx

I've read your posts. I think you are a mediocre player that found a niche to exploit. Whoopdiedoo. I know true unicum players that also know how to exploit the Balao. What they tell us is a bit different from your proclamation: They tell us that the Balao is a broken piece of garbage perfect for trolling and griefing. What you tell us is that the Balao is a perfect vehicle for a mediocre player to feel on top of the world in at the expence of others and being pedantic about it.