General Submarines related discussions

[MixuS]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:49 PM, Paranoid_Potato said:

how to dodge??

By not pressing "Battle".

[Dutchy_2019]

BTW,  has anyone on the dev team ever thought of the fact that with the glare prevalent on quite a few maps, the submarine 'I am somewhere within 1.5 km or more from this spot' is NOT visible?' Same with the glare making it almost impossible to actually trace the trajectory of incoming shells into the ship - only to be solved by using mods introducing ugly colored tracers.

 

BTW, when breaking the ping in a cruiser, when you do it at a point where you can be faiurly certain you will NOT be repinged, it becomes basically impossible to dodge the torps.

 

 

[SuperDare83]

Dont know if anyone fro0m WG actually cares about the negative feedback on how subs are currently implemented in the game? They're ruining my experience even worse than cvs

[lovelacebeer]

1 hour ago, SuperDare83 said:

Dont know if anyone fro0m WG actually cares about the negative feedback on how subs are currently implemented in the game? They're ruining my experience even worse than cvs

I get the impression WG are working on the theory that if people are willing to play in random battles where submarines are present that means those people love submarines and all the negative feedback on the forums, twitch streams, Facebook and Instagram are just the “vocal minority”.

[The_Angry_Admiral]

2 hours ago, SuperDare83 said:

Dont know if anyone fro0m WG actually cares about the negative feedback on how subs are currently implemented in the game? They're ruining my experience even worse than cvs

What it boils down to is WG have invested loads of time and money with the expectation that the player base would accept subs but the majority has not and they just can't handle it. The submarine concept beyond it's own mode does not work.

[JohnMac79]

2 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

I get the impression WG are working on the theory that if people are willing to play in random battles where submarines are present that means those people love submarines and all the negative feedback on the forums, twitch streams, Facebook and Instagram are just the “vocal minority”.

 

Even when WG ask the community directly for their feedback and it comes back overwhelmingly negative, they just pretend they didnt ask the question in the first place and press on regardless. It is nothing but utter contempt for their playerbase, and i still think they are confused about why so many CC left the program.

 

Who remembers this:

 

 

Not only did they give everyone a massive middle finger and do it anyway, but then they decided that actually, they cant even be bothered to create any more unique modules at all.

 

But hey, this is only 86% negative, clearly the vocal minority...

 

[GrossadmiralThrawn]

17 hours ago, Dutchy_2019 said:

BTW,  has anyone on the dev team ever thought of the fact that with the glare prevalent on quite a few maps, the submarine 'I am somewhere within 1.5 km or more from this spot' is NOT visible?'

 

what do you think?

13 hours ago, The_Angry_Admiral said:

What it boils down to is WG have invested loads of time and money with the expectation that the player base would accept subs but the majority has not and they just can't handle it. The submarine concept beyond it's own mode does not work.

just like the CV rework... where they even admitted to making them even dumber and easier to do "well" in to bolster the numbers as to not have the Rework "Look" like a failure.

 

[Itwastuesday]

When torpdd hunt you, they have to risk detection and death in route, they rarely can just oneshot you due to spread and other ships can potentially help.

 

When submarine hunt you they just appear in your side of the map and the constant oneshot salvos start coming in. Single launch torps come in tight packs, high speeds and deal massive damage and/or home. Nobody can help, not even the old god class, only another submarine can spot the damn thing.

 

Fun. I wanted to play again but submarines every game took any joy out of the game. What a horrible design.

[Capra76]

17 hours ago, SuperDare83 said:

Dont know if anyone fro0m WG actually cares about the negative feedback on how subs are currently implemented in the game? They're ruining my experience even worse than cvs

 

I imagine they do, I'm sure they can't be happy with the way the project has gone or the result they've ended up with, and the staff must know that this has implications for their future employment prospects.

 

However, WG internal politics means that subs must be seen to be a great success even if they ultimately kill the game.

[Nibenay78]

Sub implementation is huge! Its the best subs ever. Noone else has such subs.

 

I notice mods/staff generally doesnt participate in these threads anymore...

 

Maybe i should mention something about modern war history.. the last 100 days history and I am sure we will get a response.

[lovelacebeer]

What’s frustrating for me is how on the PTS the convoy mode has submarines included. 
 

Now in theory submarines hunting a convoy makes a lot of sense, but because WG didn’t design the convoy mode to factor in submarines it’s just painfully easy to just sit on the route the transports take and shot gun them as a submarine. 
 

It also shows submarines are not really being tested rather they are just being forced into the mode. 

[Turbeen]

I have one question towards developers ...

 

How can CV fight / counter-fight submarines?      Does have CV any chance to defend against submarine ?       If no ... why not ?  

It seems to me that any other type of ship can do at least any damage to other class, but CV versus submarine ... ?   Or do I overlook anything important here ?

 

 

Thx for the answer in advance!

Turbeen

 

[ghostbuster_]

Its interesting and sad to see how WG tries to justify some ships not having any ASW... 

3 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

 

To quote myself: "Also as Okhotnik is tier V, it can have battles only on tier V, where there wouldn't be any submarine." So I clearly mentioned, that it can have battles which are only on her own tier, therefore without submarines. Obviously it can have battles with tier VI or VII. 

You actually kinda did sign for anything happening on live server while accepting EULA. 

 

 

As I explained earlier, obviously it can meet tier VI battles, but it can also play in the battle, where are only tier V ships, so therefore there will be no submarines. 

soooo, if you land into a tier 6 battle with subs, just gid gud. but hey its also possible for you to end up in a tier 5 match! there is no subs at tier 5! 

Quote

Yes, with a BB you have the armament to deal damage to certain class - with your guns you can damage all other classes, even submarine. But you can't damage submarine under certain circumstances - when it is not spotted or underwater. But with vast majority of BBs and Cruisers you have ASW planes, so you have a good chance to damage the sub when spotted. With several different ways.

But when encountering other classes, you also can't damage other BBs, Cruisers, CVs or DDs, when they are not spotted (of course you can try to shot blind salvo, but the chance of hitting something while not being spotted for a long time is close to 0%) and you can't also damage ships, that are behind your maximal range. Shooting at smoke is also a bit different, as you can see tracers, or you can also a bit see the smoke being "produced" so you can guess, where the ship producing the smoke is approximately. But how you would damage an Asashio, that wasn't spotted at all and is only sending torpedoes, so you have no intel about where the ship is? You shoot blindly to the sea?

Dutch cruisers have armament to damage subs - main and secondary guns and airstrike, even ram can damage/kill subs. It is the same as with all armaments, you can damage enemy ships under certain circumstances. 

They think that not being able to deal any damage to subs due to lack of armament and not being able to deal damage to subs/ships due to lack of range or spotting are actually same... 

It keeps blowing my mind. 

[Lootboxer]

16 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Its interesting and sad to see how WG tries to justify some ships not having any ASW... 

soooo, if you land into a tier 6 battle with subs, just gid gud. but hey its also possible for you to end up in a tier 5 match! there is no subs at tier 5! 

They think that not being able to deal any damage to subs due to lack of armament and not being able to deal damage to subs/ships due to lack of range or spotting are actually same... 

It keeps blowing my mind. 

That's how it ends when you desperately try to defend something totally botched up like subs in WOWS and you have no arguments. You have to be creative.

[JohnMac79]

2 hours ago, Turbeen said:

 

How can CV fight / counter-fight submarines?      Does have CV any chance to defend against submarine ?       If no ... why not ?  

It seems to me that any other type of ship can do at least any damage to other class, but CV versus submarine ... ?   Or do I overlook anything important here ?

 

 

Nor should CV be able to fight subs. Its about time CV got a taste of what every other ship class has had to endure.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

3 hours ago, Turbeen said:

I have one question towards developers ...

 

How can CV fight / counter-fight submarines?      Does have CV any chance to defend against submarine ?       If no ... why not ?  

It seems to me that any other type of ship can do at least any damage to other class, but CV versus submarine ... ?   Or do I overlook anything important here ?

 

 

Thx for the answer in advance!

Turbeen

 

You overlooked the sub heading in your direction :D

[BanzaiPiluso]

I was just in a battle where our sub died immediately. Red sub went undetected straight for our CV and killed it. One of our Shimakaze tried to help and wasted half its HPs on a goose chase. Finally succeeded but couldn't do much else.

The red CV was toooooo good. KIlled 3, took half of my HPs on a Shima in one attach.

MM was broken for sure, but the sub killing the CV even while being chased by Shimakaze was too much.

This game is completely broken.

[deathsadow]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:46 PM, JohnMac79 said:

 

Nor should CV be able to fight subs. Its about time CV got a taste of what every other ship class has had to endure.

:D WG will powercree the stupid CV design by an even more stupid Sub design.

 

Jokes aside you can do stuff about CVs as long as you are equal tier or higher. Imo CVs would just need +1/0 MM and some rebalance on the T4-6 ones to match their tiers AA, maybe add a feature to the AA zone selection to reset the CVs reticule to make some counterplay to the drops ( like if you tap +/-1 sec of the drop the pattern would get screwed up a bit). 

 

As for the Subs its not the implementation but the whole damn gameplay is crap, and totally unfun to play against. In pretty much every game the players HATE getting killed by invisible enemy , and HATE 0 skill auto aim .... now add both to the cart and you got what WGs idea of submarines is, they can tweak the stats all they want as the players are disgusted by the base concept already.

 

But we all know that WG gives 0 crap about player opinion.

[JohnMac79]

1 hour ago, deathsadow said:

Imo CVs would just need +1/0 MM and some rebalance on the T4-6 ones to match their tiers AA, maybe add a feature to the AA zone selection to reset the CVs reticule to make some counterplay to the drops ( like if you tap +/-1 sec of the drop the pattern would get screwed up a bit).

 

This wouldnt even come close to balancing carriers though. Not even a tiny bit.

[COPlUM]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:46 PM, JohnMac79 said:

Nor should CV be able to fight subs. Its about time CV got a taste of what every other ship class has had to endure.

CVs : N...N...NNooooo I literally can't do anything to this thing, it's a multiplayer pvp game, the best I can do is mitigate some of the damage while I die, this doesn't make any sense
Everyone else : Just dodge ™

[deathsadow]

On 6/8/2022 at 6:37 PM, COPlUM said:

CVs : N...N...NNooooo I literally can't do anything to this thing, it's a multiplayer pvp game, the best I can do is mitigate some of the damage while I die, this doesn't make any sense
Everyone else : Just dodge ™

You should get past your expectation of a balanced PvP game ... its WoWs , so you get to enjoy fights like CV vs Sub fun like playing Musashi vs Eagle.

On 6/8/2022 at 6:11 PM, JohnMac79 said:

 

This wouldnt even come close to balancing carriers though. Not even a tiny bit.

Well yeah it woulndt balance it .. but maybe it would give some counterplay other than Just dodge ™. But i bet fun was too OP in wows with just the CVs there to counter it ... now subs will also hard counter fun  even for CVs.

[Submerged_Hitman]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:42 AM, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

Learn how to play? I just need to breath in and your poor excuse of a ship called submarine will dangle sideways from my nose and beg for mercy. I can handle low-life subs any day of the week, cause you guys are so pathetically predictable. You got no guts and worse, you got no style. You really think you can own good players because of your OP one-trick pony that is a line of undodgeable torps on stationary unaware targets? This is the whole reason, you play T10-subs and not T6 and T8. So excuse me for not standing in awe before your pathetic exploitation of fecal mechanism design. Get real.

Just saw this, LOL!   Well you have no clue how I play subs and I play T10 because I like T10, thats it.     Im far from predictable which is why im stil 63%WR over 700 odd matches in the Balao.   Im not a one trick pony either as I push ships, switch directions,  make people think im going for them with a ping but actually turning away ...  sometimes Homing torp sometimes not,  people can absolutely take subs out if THEY LEARN HOW THEY WORK, but most dont and just post silly things like you with no clue how I play them so therefore no clue howto defeat them, Stationary targets?  Nah I get more dmg through firing torps at angles, so basically all youve said is wrong about me, I just really enjoy subs, im happy with the Nerfs update after update as theyre trying to balance them out and I want a fight not a one trick pony as you describe it, theyre getting harder to use but still tons of fun when the enemy team all flocks to either side of the map and leaves the middle open for me to sail behind you and wreak havoc,  the reason subs are considered so OP still is the lack of teamwork and thats a fact as im a daily player and have been for years, dont work as a team?? Youll lose, work together you have a much better chance of winning!    Plenty of ways to take us out but tbh, its a situation I exploit and will continue to do so, after all its a TEAM game!!!!

 

[lovelacebeer]

10 minutes ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

Just saw this, LOL!   Well you have no clue how I play subs and I play T10 because I like T10, thats it.     Im far from predictable which is why im stil 63%WR over 700 odd matches in the Balao.   Im not a one trick pony either as I push ships, switch directions,  make people think im going for them with a ping but actually turning away ...  sometimes Homing torp sometimes not,  people can absolutely take subs out if THEY LEARN HOW THEY WORK, but most dont and just post silly things like you with no clue how I play them so therefore no clue howto defeat them, Stationary targets?  Nah I get more dmg through firing torps at angles, so basically all youve said is wrong about me, I just really enjoy subs, im happy with the Nerfs update after update as theyre trying to balance them out and I want a fight not a one trick pony as you describe it, theyre getting harder to use but still tons of fun when the enemy team all flocks to either side of the map and leaves the middle open for me to sail behind you and wreak havoc,  the reason subs are considered so OP still is the lack of teamwork and thats a fact as im a daily player and have been for years, dont work as a team?? Youll lose, work together you have a much better chance of winning!    Plenty of ways to take us out but tbh, its a situation I exploit and will continue to do so, after all its a TEAM game!!!!

 

Genuine question but what advice would you give for how to play subs at the different tiers?  Or do you know any good YouTubers you would recommend?
 

I’m getting exhausted trying to explain to people over on the PTS threads that submarines are not unplayable and useless.

[JohnMac79]

16 minutes ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

im stil 63%WR over 700 odd matches in the Balao.

 

Yet you are not above 50% for every other class, this is a running theme with sub players apologists for the most part.

 

16 minutes ago, TDRHitmanDan said:

the reason subs are considered so OP still is the lack of teamwork

 

Eh, no it isnt, it is because they are fundamentally broken. You even struggle in T10 CV, yet you are super unicum in T10 subs?

 

'Nothing broken here, move along folks.'

 

 

 

[leeuwbart]

another update on submarines. i had so much fun in the games including submarines that i would recommend to put them in a box, send them to hell, soak them in with oil and let them burn for infinity while a thousand dogs take a crap on it. the experience is terrible. the counterplay is barely exsisting, which just multiplies the frustration to record levels.