General Submarines related discussions

[Shirakami_Kon]

9 hours ago, Xi_Tian said:

The wake does not show direction of travel. You have to wait for the second wake to confirm direction of the sub and it's speed to lead correctly. Just be more patient next time

True, but the wake was in front of the submarine, way in front of it (it looked to the right of it from my perspective from my direction). In fact if that submarine was sailing forward it would have moved right into my depth charges, but it just surfaced because of running out of air without moving, completely stationary. Still, the wake was so far away from the submarine that even with the current increased area of explosion of depth charges none hit it.

[Shirakami_Kon]

5 hours ago, stormguard said:

just had a game in a haarlem. litterarly just watched two subs fk up my teammates infront of me, they were spotted but i still couldn't DO ANYTHING!!! are you serious??? NL cruisers don't even have sinkbombs. I CAN*T EVEN FIGHT THEM!!! this is the most stupid thing ever. im guessing you just forgot to add it right??? when will this be fixed?

Don't worry, then you have cruisers without airstrikes. Technically they "have" ASW, but you'll just do as much as with NL cruisers against submarines. Isn't that wonderful?

[Shirakami_Kon]

1 hour ago, GordonsGekko said:

So @Seraphice what's the current feedback? Is the majority happy where subs are after the latest 'rebalance'?

That's a pitiful joke. If there was a "silent majority" that loves these abominations you would still have seen some come here and explain "Hey, submarines are so cool and fun to play! Here's 20 reasons why"

 

And yet, when have you seen any single post appreciating submarine gameplay? Where are they? Where's the people making post about "oh boi, I'm having such a blast just sailing around submerged the entire match until I run out of battery. The part I like best is pinging. Taking the lead of those feels different and is SO ENTERTAINING! Also the ping sound is great, puts Yamato's gun sound to shame" or something like that.

 

The closest I've seen in the forums of someone saying he likes submarines was Fastmotion. And even him never gave a single reason why or what made submarines so different and fun to play. Just a "I like them, period, don't ask why". The only thing that guy contributed was to become a contender to the biggest troll in the history of the forums, but he never gave a single reason of why is it even worth it to be on the side of playing submarines.

 

WG saying that there's a "silent majority" that likes submarines is the millionth lie. They are not there, if so we'd have seen at the very least some explaining what's so good about playing submarines. But truth is they simply aren't there.

[Kysmet]

21 minutes ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

True, but the wake was in front of the submarine, way in front of it (it looked to the right of it from my perspective from my direction). In fact if that submarine was sailing forward it would have moved right into my depth charges, but it just surfaced because of running out of air without moving, completely stationary. Still, the wake was so far away from the submarine that even with the current increased area of explosion of depth charges none hit it.

 

Keep in mind that the white indicators on the surface can be up to 1500m off-target of where the submarine actually is.

[Shirakami_Kon]

10 minutes ago, Kysmet said:

 

Keep in mind that the white indicators on the surface can be up to 1500m off-target of where the submarine actually is.

Wait, so you're telling me that it can still be as far as 1'5 km away from the submarine? And that's after how they halved that distance compared to what it was in PTS because of people feedback complaining to no end about how random and stupid the wake location was? What a joke.

 

WG has no clue whatsoever of how to implement subs. The only impressive part is that change after change they only stray further from ever bringing them to be something that could fit the game in any shape or form. Just look at what they are doing now to U-4501.

 

This garbage will never fit the game. They just lack any competence to know how to do it.

[Cuddly_Spider]

14 hours ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

That's a pitiful joke. If there was a "silent majority" that loves these abominations you would still have seen some come here and explain "Hey, submarines are so cool and fun to play! Here's 20 reasons why"

 

And yet, when have you seen any single post appreciating submarine gameplay? Where are they? Where's the people making post about "oh boi, I'm having such a blast just sailing around submerged the entire match until I run out of battery. The part I like best is pinging. Taking the lead of those feels different and is SO ENTERTAINING! Also the ping sound is great, puts Yamato's gun sound to shame" or something like that.

 

The closest I've seen in the forums of someone saying he likes submarines was Fastmotion. And even him never gave a single reason why or what made submarines so different and fun to play. Just a "I like them, period, don't ask why". The only thing that guy contributed was to become a contender to the biggest troll in the history of the forums, but he never gave a single reason of why is it even worth it to be on the side of playing submarines.

 

WG saying that there's a "silent majority" that likes submarines is the millionth lie. They are not there, if so we'd have seen at the very least some explaining what's so good about playing submarines. But truth is they simply aren't there.

 

I love subs. They've reinvigorated the game for me. Each match is more varied and interesting with new and fresh dynamics on the battlefield.

 

Subs brought me back after a few years out of the game, and now I'm playing it every day.

[Shirakami_Kon]

2 hours ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

I love subs. They've reinvigorated the game for me. Each match is more varied and interesting with new and fresh dynamics on the battlefield.

 

Subs brought me back after a few years out of the game, and now I'm playing it every day.

Mind explaining why more that "I like them because I like them"? Like idk, what do you enjoy doing in a submarine and why it does it better than anything else in the game so it's what made you choose the submarine.

 

Explaining what do you think submarines do best than anyone else so it's your choice. What you think needs to be improved in then in anything, etc.

 

Any other class has arguments that can be brought up that could convince people as to "why should you play X class and why is it the best". I've never seen anyone yet do that with submarines. Just mere "I like them" like yours right now. Good I guess, but why?

[BLUB__BLUB]

19 hours ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

This garbage will never fit the game.

It could easily fit the game. Might even bring more balance. But....

 

19 hours ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

They just lack any competence to know how to do it.

... that's why it will just create more frikkin' crap. 

You are right. After two years there should be some improvement and "almost right in sight". 

What happens is they just make a bigger shitshow. 

[Shirakami_Kon]

18 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

It could easily fit the game. Might even bring more balance. But....

 

... that's why it will just create more frikkin' crap. 

You are right. After two years there should be some improvement and "almost right in sight". 

What happens is they just make a bigger shitshow. 

Just wait until you read the dev blog and see that now non-homing torpedos get dispersion when launched.

 

You know, the dispersion that doesn't change a single thing when a submarine pops up right in your face to shotgun you, but the one that will make them utterly useless over long distances making you extremely reliant in the homing ones in any other scenario. Because that will definitely fix the issues, right?

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 minutes ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

Just wait until you read the dev blog and see that now non-homing torpedos get dispersion when launched.

I didn't know they had no dispersion. 

 

4 minutes ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

You know, the dispersion that doesn't change a single thing when a submarine pops up right in your face to shotgun you, but the one that will make them utterly useless over long distances making you extremely reliant in the homing ones in any other scenario. Because that will definitely fix the issues, right?

Right! I dunno why they are sticking with that homing crap. 
Just dump it, and fire the guy that came up with the idea.

[Cuddly_Spider]

6 hours ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

Mind explaining why more that "I like them because I like them"? Like idk, what do you enjoy doing in a submarine and why it does it better than anything else in the game so it's what made you choose the submarine.

 

Explaining what do you think submarines do best than anyone else so it's your choice. What you think needs to be improved in then in anything, etc.

 

Any other class has arguments that can be brought up that could convince people as to "why should you play X class and why is it the best". I've never seen anyone yet do that with submarines. Just mere "I like them" like yours right now. Good I guess, but why?

 

In a sub there is more in the way of intelligence and situational awareness. You're vulnerable, slow underwater, and can easily be destroyed by depth charges if you're caught in a bad situation. Your only viable attack is torpedo runs fired from the front or the stern, meaning that running obliquely to your target isn't an option, further increasing your vulnerability to attack if you're discovered.

 

There are no guns to speak of, and absolutely no manual gun weapon.

 

All of this adds up to the submarine metagame being about strategy and tactics. Skill can compensate in the BB game. Reflexes and quick thinking in the DD game. And both in the Cruiser game. But the sub is entirely different to all that, and it suits me.

[Shirakami_Kon]

39 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

In a sub there is more in the way of intelligence and situational awareness. You're vulnerable, slow underwater, and can easily be destroyed by depth charges if you're caught in a bad situation. Your only viable attack is torpedo runs fired from the front or the stern, meaning that running obliquely to your target isn't an option, further increasing your vulnerability to attack if you're discovered.

 

There are no guns to speak of, and absolutely no manual gun weapon.

 

All of this adds up to the submarine metagame being about strategy and tactics. Skill can compensate in the BB game. Reflexes and quick thinking in the DD game. And both in the Cruiser game. But the sub is entirely different to all that, and it suits me.

Fair enough, though I'll have to disagree a lot with the slow underwater and easily destroyed by depht charges part. Submarines aren't slow at all, and between the current damage saturation they have, close to that of French DDs, + how easily modules get incapacitated and repaired very quickly afterwards, effectively tanking a lot of depth charges for 0 damage they aren't really that vulnerable at all. Sinking one can be such an struggle. They are definitely tankier than DDs.

[Cuddly_Spider]

11 minutes ago, Shirakami_Kon said:

Fair enough, though I'll have to disagree a lot with the slow underwater and easily destroyed by depht charges part. Submarines aren't slow at all, and between the current damage saturation they have, close to that of French DDs, + how easily modules get incapacitated and repaired very quickly afterwards, efectively tanking a lot of depth charges for 0 damage they aren't really that vulnerable at all. Sinking one can be such an struggle. They are definitely tankier than DDs.

 

The splash area on bombs is absolutely huge. If someone has 2 bombing runs in their arsenal they can cover an area of about 1.8km wide. The repair modules are limited, and once you're out of those you're extremely vulnerable to both enemy subs and anything else - even a small bang within a km or so can knock out your sonar and torps.

 

That said, I'd completely nerf the ramming damage of subs given their stealth element. If a DD with 1HP hits a sub on full health the sub should still sink. I popped up right underneath a damaged DD once and sank it - a dirty kill.

 

I'd also enhance their visibility to be able to see normally at periscope depth but reduce their speed by to 3/4 of maximum at that depth.

 

Another thing that I'd do is increase their visibility at depth but only when operating at ultra-slow speeds, and blind them when they're running at maximum speed.

 

Their metagame is really good. I think they should build on it, not turn it into a forward-facing DD that sinks.

[Charles__Vane__]

 

Citation

And I still think it is troll that subs never have to surface. That is like having a DD with "forever smoke". 

Totally agreed. Subs are also really tough to kill...

and I find airstrike much more usable than submarine grenades. Really hard to use those if the subs is not dumb.

[ghostbuster_]

its not even close to DDs having forever smoke. To be able to compare sub with "forever smoke equipped DDs, DDs have to be immune to main guns while in smoke and can be hit only by a very useless armament which not all the classes have. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

its not even close to DDs having forever smoke. To be able to compare sub with "forever smoke equipped DDs, DDs have to be immune to main guns while in smoke and can be hit only by a very useless armament which not all the classes have. 

That's what the rest said in my text. It would be more like a steel-ball cloaking device. 

Can't see them, can't even shoot them with guns, can't torp them, can't ram them.

[deathsadow]

2 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

That's what the rest said in my text. It would be more like a steel-ball cloaking device. 

Can't see them, can't even shoot them with guns, can't torp them, can't ram them.

 

Yeah, and in this time they can still shoot you with homing torps. Also at this point WG could add homing torps to the Shimakaze too.

 

Submarines will never work, their concept is to kill stuff without being ever seen in the first place ... which is the most toxic and infuriating thing you can add to a PvP game. All i hope is that WG will lose out so hard on the revenue that they will get rid of this whole submarine concept, cause if they keep this mess in the game than im bloody sure many players including myself will quit.

[KratosTheUnforgiving]

Forgive the graphics, Norther Waters maps.

 

Sub fires torps at my Massa, I turn to island, next thing he pings, torps do right turn and hit, can't use repair as that is on cool down with real fighting with other ships and not a class WG can't balance . No other class of ship can effectively bend their main weapons. This why subs are OP braindead and homing torps should be banned and another example of WG having no logical clue and if they can't see that this is wrong, well our assessment of WG mentally is correct !!

 

@Seraphice explain this one from WG book of excuses and how to dodge??

 

and yeh I killed his unloved carcass with 2 depth charges

[ross1193]

Sunk another two more today and rammed one of those cheat/spoiler pieces of crap, report them, block their messages and add them to your blacklist!!! :))))

PS: WG get rid of them cause I will be leaving v.soon otherwise, what is now a v.game! crap!

[BLUB__BLUB]

5 hours ago, deathsadow said:

 

Submarines will never work, their concept is to kill stuff without being ever seen in the first place

They could - just that they'd need to get rid of exactly that. 

Risk vs reward, but WeeGee is really FF-ing that up. And it would me very very easy to fix. 

I think it would just take 2 or 3 experienced WoWS players to fix the whole thing. 

[Corocotta15]

Doesnt matter what WG will do with subs. It wont work in any case. Just because they change completely -till destroy it- the tactic, the strategy and even the soul of the game. 

 

Is a pity. After a lot of battles, when i see subs, i dont enjoy the game. 

[bloodynicknames]

somebody care to explain why the mino of all ships doesnt get plane-asw ? 

it's downright impossible to asw a sub without getting nuked in the process unless the other team is utterly clueless. 

[lovelacebeer]

1 hour ago, bloodynicknames said:

somebody care to explain why the mino of all ships doesnt get plane-asw ? 

it's downright impossible to asw a sub without getting nuked in the process unless the other team is utterly clueless. 

Good question, it’s hard enough taking such a risk using the depth charges on a Hidenburg let alone a Mino.  

[JohnMac79]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:49 PM, Paranoid_Potato said:

@Seraphice explain this one from WG book of excuses and how to dodge??

 

 

[DocStrangeFruit]

I feel that torpedo arming distance on subs needs to be increased to match that of the DDs as it seems they can fire them from point blank range and still get hits, the torpedos need to not arm until x amount of travel same as plane drops maybe?