General Submarines related discussions

[Fastmotion]

9 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

2. In my experience, a sub vs a DD is not much of a contest and the sub is at a massive disadvantage. But then again I've not much experience with the game as it is. I stopped playing it properly about 2018 and only came back recently because of the addition of submarines.

 

With Dds they clear your 1st ping mark msot times but they fail to clear the 2nd. It doesn't take too much practice to set ping mark on those fast DDs. And then you use 2-3 torps and keep pinging and then add 2 more and keep pinging. They take torps in very often. andthere is no point to be afraid of Dds anddive. Instead, stay still and ram finally them. Such attitude grows when you play russian DDs which have ca 4km range only. In my suggestion is that you learn from DD practice msot of the things for Subs as well.

 

Randoms are a practice room. Take one evening when you go always to kill the Cv. Next evening practice DD killing. Then practice caps that have rock in the middle- kill ships behind it. Then practice killing other Subs. And finally you have enough skills after that and will be successful against DDs and others.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

14 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

For people not really emersed in the game it has a broken feel about it.

That's because it is.

[chillshock]

Regarding the current sub commander skills: Isn't it kind of bad that half of them are "play bad to get a buff"? (when spotted  / when wasting a cooldown)

[Bear__Necessities]

18 hours ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

WG;

 

You have vastly overnerfed the subs. I get that there will be strong resistance to anything that changes the comfortable game mechanic that people have gotten used to, but that's not a good reason to fatally unbalance a gameplay asset.

 

The recent update, which saw them become way too easy to hit, was too much given how vulnerable they already are in other areas. One little strike and the failure of their modules render them unable to fight. Even worse, you seem to have reduced the distance they can spot other ships at periscope depth to the extent that other ships can spot them easily, further making them useless in a fight. And why oh why can't the sub "see" what's on the surface when other ships are right there next to it? Especially as those ships can see the sub pretty easily with sonar and have every advantage already at that point.

 

Also making them unable to ping CVs at a distance is a bizarre gameplay decision that makes absolutely no sense.

 

Add to all that the fact the torpedoes, for all their homing ability, can be avoided quite easily by even the least agile BBs.

 

I hope that these are temporary "settling in" measures that you're adopting in order to let the more "lively" playerbase members make adjustments. But I feel that the following would improve sub gameplay;

 

1. Increase the distance subs can spot other ships when operating at periscope depth.

 

2. Allow the subs to spot any surface vessel not obscured by terrain within 4KM.

 

3. Give sub torps slightly more agility, but slightly increase their reload times.

[Shirakami_Kon]

2 hours ago, chillshock said:

Regarding the current sub commander skills: Isn't it kind of bad that half of them are "play bad to get a buff"? (when spotted  / when wasting a cooldown)

Makes you wonder why, doesn't it?

[JohnMac79]

 

Pffff... 

😡😡😡😡

 

 

[Fastmotion]

1 hour ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

Pffff... 

😡😡😡😡

 

 

The above picture is good because now peopel can play more with their favourite ship types.

The below picture is violating Human Rights and makes your next teams suffer because you can't tel lthem that you have smoke instead of Radar and other tactical info.

That's why reporting is prohibited in my rules. But if you report yourself others sometimes then now you have a Karma time.

 

I wonder what happens to my old Subs Upgrades that i bought after the rental ship disappears?

[JohnMac79]

23 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

The below picture is violating Human Rights

 

[Shirakami_Kon]

We should sue WG for violating human rights, smh. Thoughts? Maybe Fastmotion can take care of that, he seems more informed for that.

[BigtprimE]

1 hour ago, Fastmotion said:

The above picture is good because now peopel can play more with their favourite ship types.

In what world the submarines are good enough to bother any kind of ships ?

 

Submarines are actually so weak that those sunk by them should questions their skill.

And to anyone who's frightened of pings : put your engine at max and turn in circle.

[Fastmotion]

24 minutes ago, BigtprimE said:

Submarines are actually so weak that those sunk by them should questions their skill.

 

I agree.

[JohnMac79]

Fastmotion has an alt account? 

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

 

[Shirakami_Kon]

10 minutes ago, Von_Pruss said:

 

Short answer to the video title: Yes.

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, Von_Pruss said:

 

Wait till French subs appear with their improved damage saturation mechanics :D

[chillshock]

Submarines are basically blind to other submarines below periscope depth, now - basically making it impossible to sub-on-sub-fight. GNAH!

*edit*

 

Holy crap, this not-being  able to detect a submarine under water - as a submarine, surface ships don't have that problem... this has to be a BUG. Distances where you'd not even need sonar to hear the other sub, too! 

[HabiBOOS]

On 10/22/2020 at 6:41 PM, YabbaCoe said:

Commanders!

 

We would like to ask you to share your personal experience and feedback from Submarine Battles on TST server in this particular thread!

 

Please edit your messages, stay only on feedback and don't debate here. If you would like to debate about submarines, please do so in other threads.

Posts, that won't follow these rules will be hidden. 

 

Thanks for understanding and good luck in Submarine Battles! 

 

 

The last update put a big point on submarines. Firstly, the damage was greatly increased, and secondly, out of 6 submarines, Balao is completely unbalanced. Previously, submarines were already suffering, but now, after the update, it’s just crap. Thanks, it was fun to play before the update! Goodbye submarines! Why endure the pain of fighting off the desire to play a game of submarines, they were not even introduced into the game! Completely messed up with the latest update! Goodbye submarines!

[OldSchoolFrankie]

Wargaming advertises Submarines in their advertisements, so it cannot be assumed that Wargaming is acting in the interests of the community.

They wants to sell Submarines and they will keep buffing them until they are strong enough for people to play them because they get good results with them. Well, we already know that from the CVs.

 

Good positioning, angling, using concealment and turret management becomes kind of useless, if submarines in the game.  It's so stupid. They do not fit into the game.

 

[chillshock]

Vor 1 Stunde, OldSchoolFrankie sagte:

keep buffing them

Well, the last patch was kind of not that.
Or it's all bugs, might be. Who knows.

[OldSchoolFrankie]

3 minutes ago, chillshock said:

Well, the last patch was kind of not that.
Or it's all bugs, might be. Who knows.

No buffs yet. They will look at their spreadsheet and see if there are enough players playing the class.

That won't be the case because a large part of the playerbase rejects them, so they will be made more attractive.

 

We were allowed to follow the whole thing with the aircraft carriers and again the opinion of the playerbase doesn't matter in the slightest for Wargaming.

The only way Wargaming can change its mind is if a massive number of people stop playing. But even then, they try aggressive advertising first.

[chillshock]

Well, if it wasn't for submarines an stumbling upon an youtube video, I wouldn't have looked at this game. I like(d) them.
But the last patch has some 'issues':

1st and most important: Submarines still don't do anything for the team. (Sonar or some sort would have been a nice option?)

 

But:

• Commander skills are 9/10 "play bad to get this measly buff to doesn't matter" ('get detected' 'battery low' 'blow cooldown' ...)
• diving below periscope makes you completely blind against enemy submarines, down to collision. So really BLIND. So you detect less of the submarine than a surface ship and CAN NOT FIGHT it anymore. Feels totally bugged.
• Stuff that lands close to you and does NO damage still causes 'fuel leak'
• The new ping-origin indicator is bad. Then again, I dislike the whole ping&home mechanic. I'd rather see a "keep in periscope locked and button held until hit for homing - diving, losing target, looking away, ... all stops any homing. 
• AA not working. Not even the measly 20 cannons. Or the 50cal brownings on us ones.

Overall, the current state feels like "omg omg omg what can we do do something anything omg omg omg!!!" 

 

Fix bugs & give captain skills that deserve the name! Or will "Survivability Expert" soon be changed to "only when on fire" or "Long Range Secondary" to "only works 10 seconds after spotter plane"? Because that's the "style" the skills have right now.
 

[Auerstedt]

I have one question: why does the "Hydroaccoustic search" consumable not spot submarines? Seems like a perfrect way to get the whole affair at least somewhat balanced.

[OldSchoolFrankie]

Just dodge..

 

 

Yepp, looks like really good game design!

[Shirakami_Kon]

So, I came across this checking on the NA forums.

 

 

That's how many times the torpedo tubes and ping of a single submarine broke when being targeted by the depth charges and shells of the player that posted this. I assume everyone here knows that basic mechanic detail, but just to make sure, for those that may not know, everytime a module on a ship breaks it means that module took at least one shell/plane bomb/rocket/depth charge... you name it, and the module well, broke, obviously. But the way the game is programmed when a module breaks that shell/bomb/rocket/depth charge, whatever the cause was dealt 0 damage to the HP of the ship or submarine.

 

So what this image here means, is that a single submarine took 11 hits that dealt 0 damage to it because of the constant destruction of it's modules. Now, I understand that since the entire weaponry of a submarine consists in it's torpedos, and WG is completely stubborn about not removing the ping they need those torpedo tubes and ping. So apparently the route they took is that submarine ping and torpedo tubes can't be permanently destroyed, like happens with modules of every other class in the game, where after so many hits the module will permanently destroy to stop absorbing damage to no end.

 

Just imagine what happened if to put an example Yamato's secondaries and AA guns weren't ever permanently destroyed, considering almost the entire superstructure is fully covered in it. Something like a destroyer without torpedos like Druid or a light cruiser without torpedos either would never be done with it since the secondaries and AA would keep permanently repairing to absorb damage for absolutely free.

 

So why is this not considered a problem in the case of submarines? We have multiple videos, and us players have already come across situations like this one here.

 

You can have dozens and dozens of depth charges or shell hits on a submarine and the thing just doesn't die, leaving players frustrated and wondering why. Well, the constant repair of modules so they keep constantly absorbing dep`th charges for the submarine for 0 damage seems a real issue in this case.

 

So why is this a thing? As said before, I understand that for a submarine, where torpedos are all it uses WG decided that the permanent destruction of the torpedo tubes and ping is a no-go, to prevent a submarine to remain in battle absolutely incapable of doing anything (other than suicide by ramming something I guess). While that is fair for the submarine it screws all damage they take, not to mantion how hard it can be to find one and do so to begin with when you're against one that knows what to do and how to properly remain stealthy all game (which why still very rare considering that so far a tier 5 max player could get his hands on a tier 10 sub happens where the opposing sub is an experienced player).

 

I'd like to make a suggestion about this. Just make the sonar and torpedo tubes of submarines indestructible. They need them, there's absolutely 0 point really in them breaking since that would lead to situatons where submarines would end up being completely useless and that can't really be allowed from a gameplay standpoint, I can agree with that. But those modules breaking in such insane amounts screws so much how to deal with them. That previous result in the image and video is absolutely stupid, so my suggestion is make submarine modules indestructible, they keep their weapons that they need because they literally only have their torps and ping, but that would at least make it so is you actually manage to get hits on one the game doesn't completely screw you like currently.

[chillshock]

I said it before and I say it again: This iteration of the submarines "testing" is the most bugged feeling one to date. 

 

From tank-mode-modules to blindness to other subs as soon as you dive to 'no AA' to wonky homing (sometimes they quit 2miles from BB, sometimes they seem to home until they hit).

 

Imho:
The 11.3 iteration this wasn't really good, but it was still better than 11.4.