General Submarines related discussions

[Fastmotion]

1 hour ago, Europizza said:

 

 

 

 

Finally another normal human. 

 

Or: how normal humans consider being reported as a critical gameplay feature 

 

Here is what a sweet puppy thinks about normal humans.

 

There is no good way to proove that dogs have thinking like humans because it is not possible to go inside their mind and monitor there.

On the higher levels it is said that there are no thinker and no individual. From that level it is clear that assumtion about dogs to think is false.

But you go even futher and seems to know what dogs think in your spam images.

Surely you assume that other world thinks like you and interprets dogs' body language as you.

But how can you take such person and his hive seriously?

[JohnMac79]

47 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

But how can you take such person and his hive seriously?

 

I cant take you seriously, which is why you are going to get blocked.

[Verdaechtig]

Vor 11 Stunden, Bubba_S sagte:

I play ALL classes, but bitter, salty tears and reports from the likes of you are a compliment for me. If it wasn’t For CVs and subs,You would take your BBsbaby cries against DDs with their torps and Cruisers with fires…. Go eat a loaf you hater

There is no bitter, salty tears. I report in the beginning of the game so how should I be mad at someone if the battle barely even started? It's just a way of feedback for people like you, since no one from WG cares anyway about any feedback about this topic. People who have a throw-away character and happily feast on everyone elses experience by supporting an obviously broken nonsense class.

I mean they announced this stuff in what 4 (?) years? And since the last 2 years they try to balance this sht and it fails miserably. So instead of waking the fk up you live in denial and try to boost your ego by justifying your actions. Takes 2 braincells to understand this class should not be in this game.

[Fastmotion]

25 minutes ago, JohnMac79 said:

 

I cant take you seriously, which is why you are going to get blocked.

How does it affect me if you block me or put me in your colored lists? In my clan the rules about it are:

1) it is forbidden to put people to colored lists

2) it is forbidden to report, block or silence other ways people.

 

Therefore i never block anybody and i don't actually know how to do it. But i don't understand why do you have an illusion that it affects me somehow or is an important offtopical info for me? Idon't care what you do and which rules you follow. If colored lists and other blocking lowers temporarily your sufferings then go ahead. I personally don't believe that your pain andsuffer fades that way.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Fastmotion said:

How does it affect me if you block me or put me in your colored lists? In my clan the rules about it are:

1) it is forbidden to put people to colored lists

2) it is forbidden to report, block or silence other ways people.

 

Therefore i never block anybody and i don't actually know how to do it. But i don't understand why do you have an illusion that it affects me somehow or is an important offtopical info for me? Idon't care what you do and which rules you follow. If colored lists and other blocking lowers temporarily your sufferings then go ahead. I personally don't believe that your pain andsuffer fades that way.

It affects him in not having to read your off topic spam messages. Despite what you might think, not everything is about you mate. Shocking, innit? 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, Fastmotion said:

There is no good way to proove that dogs have thinking like humans because it is not possible to go inside their mind and monitor there.

On the higher levels it is said that there are no thinker and no individual. From that level it is clear that assumtion about dogs to think is false.

But you go even futher and seems to know what dogs think in your spam images.

Surely you assume that other world thinks like you and interprets dogs' body language as you.

But how can you take such person and his hive seriously?

You are unqualified to make such assumptions about me, or dogs for that matter. We also established earlier that spamming 100 posts in 24 hours is undeniably more spam then posting 1 meme image in the same timeframe. You sir, spam. Not I. Well, now I do

[Fastmotion]

11 minutes ago, Europizza said:

It affects him in not having to read your off topic spam messages. Despite what you might think, not everything is about you mate. Shocking, innit? 

So you explain that if he blocks me then it affects him and not me. That is the same what i said. I already said that what should i do with his announcement of blocking someone. Can you answer that question too or you prefer to ignore the question? The question was i nthe phrase with "..how or is an important offtopical info for me? ", so, what should the world do with an info that he blocked me. Should i start to loose money or gain more money or what? What is the point to spreadsuch irrelevant offtopical idea? Can you explain that?

 

Hesaid to me that he blocks something so it is about me and for me what he said. That proves that your last sentence is wrong where you want to think that he was not talking to me.

 

Do you have anything to add about this topic like i did earlier and like i have done in all topics or you just are off topic like most of the times?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

6 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

Do you have anything to add about this topic like i did earlier and like i have done in all topics or you just are off topic like most of the times?

Am I correct in assuming you take zero responsibility for the two topics being shut down?

[Fastmotion]

1 minute ago, Europizza said:

Am I correct in assuming you take zero responsibility for the two topics being shut down?

I have already answered to that and all other questions earlier. But you haven't given an adequate answer to my suggestion to stay in the topics. for example this time you added an offtopical answered question here to my suggestion. And your such response is not an adequate answer and even is something opposite that i suggested. This is a proof that your hive most of the times are inadequate. Should i repeat here again that let's stay in the topic or this thread will be closed again by your hives inadequate behaviour.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Fastmotion said:

I have already answered to that and all other questions earlier.

We have already established you are the top number 1 off topic spammer in this forum. It is impossible to find your answer among your 300+ spam posts. 

1 hour ago, Fastmotion said:

Should i repeat here again that let's stay in the topic or this thread will be closed again by your hives inadequate behaviour.

Ah. So the answer is yes? You take zero responsibility for your actions causing topics to be shut down?

[stormguard]

Posted April 30

just had a kremlin juke 40 homing torps wo dcp. also every ship in the game is faster than subs, they do like 24knots. as soon as a sub is spotted or you see the pings you can determine the loc and just bomb it. all the subs i've seen still has white dmg. the only ones doing well are unicums who are still doing better in every other shipclass of same tier.

 

i really don't see how you are even dying to subs. show me a replay cause right now it just sounds like you are bunch of whiny old men.

 

i've killed plenty of subs and only time i died was a sub 1v1 against someone with maxed skills so he could turn faster (i was also eating bombs). another time i died cause i couldn't dcp the homing, I WOULD STILL HAVE DIED TO ANY OTHER SHIP at that moment since i was os.

 

i still think they are totally useless. 

 

i would like to revise my statement after playing some more on this patch. the homing feels inconsistent. the dmg is fine for subs ive now seen ppl with over 100k avg, reason its white cause it have no pr reference in WoWs monitor. ate a torp from german sub front and rear when sailing over him as a dd not sure if its the tube bug?

 

- there is essentially no counterplay when playing a slow bb. 

- dropbombs have too short range

- there is no way to tell where the sub is. you can drop where the ping came from but it's pure rng on the distance.

- surfaced subs have too good concealment.

- no counterplay when playing ships wo dropbombs like Neatherlands CA.

 

this creates even more campy playstyle since if you go in front you will be target. it's too hard to spot the sub vs getting spotted and then nobody is in range to bomb it anyway and you eat torps and die. you can't play around where the sub is cause you don't know until it gets spotted. 

 

at the moment the only counterplay is grouping and teamwork but in randoms where you have 40% winrate players it doesn't exist so you end up just playing around the sub instead which means i.e switching flanks which creates an even more unhealthy meta.

 

 

[Fastmotion]

1 hour ago, stormguard said:

Posted April 30

 

i would like to revise my statement after playing some more on this patch. the homing feels inconsistent. the dmg is fine for subs ive now seen ppl with over 100k avg, reason its white cause it have no pr reference in WoWs monitor. ate a torp from german sub front and rear when sailing over him as a dd not sure if its the tube bug?

 

- there is essentially no counterplay when playing a slow bb. 

- dropbombs have too short range

- there is no way to tell where the sub is. you can drop where the ping came from but it's pure rng on the distance.

- surfaced subs have too good concealment.

- no counterplay when playing ships wo dropbombs like Neatherlands CA.

 

this creates even more campy playstyle since if you go in front you will be target. it's too hard to spot the sub vs getting spotted and then nobody is in range to bomb it anyway and you eat torps and die. you can't play around where the sub is cause you don't know until it gets spotted. 

 

at the moment the only counterplay is grouping and teamwork but in randoms where you have 40% winrate players it doesn't exist so you end up just playing around the sub instead which means i.e switching flanks which creates an even more unhealthy meta.

 

 

your handwriting is very difficult to be read.

Seems like you changed your mind. That's good.

I don't see in your listing the most important aspect which is that there is a minimal distance restriction from your BB where you can drop bombs. That restricts little bit your options. A Sub can safely get close to you and you can't shoot him. Who knows why people don't know that and other details yet they believe that their stats give them that and other knowledge and the victory in debates. I don't play gambler ships usually but i immediately saw that aspect and i am amazed that people who play thousands of games with BBs don't mention that. As i love subs then when i play i swim under BBs often if needed.

 

You say that in Randoms things are random. Yes, and there is no good cure for it, and actually it is not a problem there. Sooner or later they open gold league again and you can play there where you have less chaos. I as a 40% player will surely be there which proves that there is no need to assume that 40% WR players perform somehow weaker compared to you and other gold members.

 

You mention a popular term Meta. I don't understand well what that means but there are much better words to describe what they mean. Like words Trend, popularity, main tactics, etc. If for example secondary guns are not effective currently then they say that "Meta/Trend is that secondaries are not effective". Seems you say that subs makes it effective to use certain tactics and things. But every new element i nthe equation changes things little bit and this is normal. I haven't seen that gambler ships (BBs, Cruisers) have changed their behaviour after subs were added. They take still the same positions. And if they decide to start to behave differently then what is bad or unhealthy in such change. It is natural that things change in life. Autistic people react with bigger stress to changes but other people just adopt. In the Random battles everything is always so random that Subs are irrelevant there.

 

This is my opinion. You don't have to agree with me but you sohuldn't feel pain either because other opinions.

 

I think it is healthy if people learn to see different opinions and other healthy things.

 

[Bear__Necessities]

wtf is going on in this thread.....

[Cuddly_Spider]

WG;

 

You have vastly overnerfed the subs. I get that there will be strong resistance to anything that changes the comfortable game mechanic that people have gotten used to, but that's not a good reason to fatally unbalance a gameplay asset.

 

The recent update, which saw them become way too easy to hit, was too much given how vulnerable they already are in other areas. One little strike and the failure of their modules render them unable to fight. Even worse, you seem to have reduced the distance they can spot other ships at periscope depth to the extent that other ships can spot them easily, further making them useless in a fight. And why oh why can't the sub "see" what's on the surface when other ships are right there next to it? Especially as those ships can see the sub pretty easily with sonar and have every advantage already at that point.

 

Also making them unable to ping CVs at a distance is a bizarre gameplay decision that makes absolutely no sense.

 

Add to all that the fact the torpedoes, for all their homing ability, can be avoided quite easily by even the least agile BBs.

 

I hope that these are temporary "settling in" measures that you're adopting in order to let the more "lively" playerbase members make adjustments. But I feel that the following would improve sub gameplay;

 

1. Increase the distance subs can spot other ships when operating at periscope depth.

 

2. Allow the subs to spot any surface vessel not obscured by terrain within 4KM.

 

3. Give sub torps slightly more agility, but slightly increase their reload times.

[Verdaechtig]

Vor 2 Minuten, Cuddly_Spider sagte:

WG;

 

You have vastly overnerfed the subs. I get that there will be strong resistance to anything that changes the comfortable game mechanic that people have gotten used to, but that's not a good reason to fatally unbalance a gameplay asset.

 

The recent update, which saw them become way too easy to hit, was too much given how vulnerable they already are in other areas. One little strike and the failure of their modules render them unable to fight. Even worse, you seem to have reduced the distance they can spot other ships at periscope depth to the extent that other ships can spot them easily, further making them useless in a fight. And why oh why can't the sub "see" what's on the surface when other ships are right there next to it? Especially as those ships can see the sub pretty easily with sonar and have every advantage already at that point.

 

Also making them unable to ping CVs at a distance is a bizarre gameplay decision that makes absolutely no sense.

 

Add to all that the fact the torpedoes, for all their homing ability, can be avoided quite easily by even the least agile BBs.

 

I hope that these are temporary "settling in" measures that you're adopting in order to let the more "lively" playerbase members make adjustments. But I feel that the following would improve sub gameplay;

 

1. Increase the distance subs can spot other ships when operating at periscope depth.

 

2. Allow the subs to spot any surface vessel not obscured by terrain within 4KM.

 

3. Give sub torps slightly more agility, but slightly increase their reload times.

Jesus christ reading this I feel like I am alive in a comic book.

 

Vor 7 Minuten, Cuddly_Spider sagte:

Also making them unable to ping CVs at a distance is a bizarre gameplay decision that makes absolutely no sense.

Ah yes, maybe you can do it if you get closer, that might be the issue.

[Fastmotion]

12 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

WG;

 

You have vastly overnerfed the subs. I get that there will be strong resistance to anything that changes the comfortable game mechanic that people have gotten used to, but that's not a good reason to fatally unbalance a gameplay asset.

 

The recent update, which saw them become way too easy to hit, was too much given how vulnerable they already are in other areas. One little strike and the failure of their modules render them unable to fight. Even worse, you seem to have reduced the distance they can spot other ships at periscope depth to the extent that other ships can spot them easily, further making them useless in a fight. And why oh why can't the sub "see" what's on the surface when other ships are right there next to it? Especially as those ships can see the sub pretty easily with sonar and have every advantage already at that point.

 

Also making them unable to ping CVs at a distance is a bizarre gameplay decision that makes absolutely no sense.

 

Add to all that the fact the torpedoes, for all their homing ability, can be avoided quite easily by even the least agile BBs.

 

I hope that these are temporary "settling in" measures that you're adopting in order to let the more "lively" playerbase members make adjustments. But I feel that the following would improve sub gameplay;

 

1. Increase the distance subs can spot other ships when operating at periscope depth.

 

2. Allow the subs to spot any surface vessel not obscured by terrain within 4KM.

 

3. Give sub torps slightly more agility, but slightly increase their reload times.

i agree partially what you said.

but i don't think that Subs need nerfing or buffing. They are fine at the moment in my opinion. You can buff as you suggest but really no need.

If people really demand and wish to buff Subs then fine but in my opinion those ship types are mature and don't need buffs/nerfs.

 

As you al lsee many people love subs and Cvs and want to buff them. This is a healthy thing that there are many different opinions.

I as a Sub lover think that Subs are mature now and buffing is not needed unless people really demand.

[Cuddly_Spider]

2 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

i agree partially what you said.

but i don't think that Subs need nerfing or buffing. They are fine at the moment in my opinion. You can buff as you suggest but really no need.

If people really demand and wish to buff Subs then fine but in my opinion those ship types are mature and don't need buffs/nerfs.

 

As you al lsee many people love subs and Cvs and want to buff them. This is a healthy thing that there are many different opinions.

I as a Sub lover think that Subs are mature now and buffing is not needed unless people really demand.

Interesting perspective. Thank you for the food for thought.

 

One quick question, what do you think about the submarines' inability to take on CVs due to that arbitrary non-ping mechanic? It's a genuine mystery to me why it is done like this.

[Verdaechtig]

Vor 3 Minuten, Cuddly_Spider sagte:

One quick question, what do you think about the submarines' inability to take on CVs due to that arbitrary non-ping mechanic? It's a genuine mystery to me why it is done like this.

Very interesting question. There are 3 options:

a) in 3396 battles you have missed very elementary gameplay aspects

b) there is a major bug in the code

c) wargaming might fool you into hunting their beloved CV class

[Fastmotion]

6 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

Interesting perspective. Thank you for the food for thought.

 

One quick question, what do you think about the submarines' inability to take on CVs due to that arbitrary non-ping mechanic? It's a genuine mystery to me why it is done like this.

do you mean that CVs repair tool works so long that ping is rejected on them?

In BBs that period is shorter.

I think it is fine for CVs. I wait ca 20 seconds and then ping again them but meanwhile you can send some guided torps still out. I think let Cvs have such long ping-immunity time.

 

2 minutes ago, Verdaechtig said:

Very interesting question. There are 3 options:

a) in 3396 battles you have missed very elementary gameplay aspects

b) there is a major bug in the code

c) wargaming might fool you into hunting their beloved CV class

Why do you assume that his brother missed in 3300 battles anything? Maybe it was because other factors? Don't you agree that stats are irrelevant?

[Verdaechtig]

Vor 2 Minuten, Fastmotion sagte:

do you mean that CVs repair tool works so long that ping is rejected on them?

In BBs that period is shorter.

I think it is fine for CVs. I wait ca 20 seconds and then ping again them but meanwhile you can send some guided torps still out. I think let Cvs have such long ping-immunity time.

 

Why do you assume that his brother missed in 3300 battles anything? Maybe it was because other factors? Don't you agree that stats are irrelevant?

you answered your own question.

[Verdaechtig]

Vor 3 Minuten, Fastmotion sagte:

Why do you assume that his brother missed in 3300 battles anything? Maybe it was because other factors? Don't you agree that stats are irrelevant?

You answered your own question.

[Cuddly_Spider]

12 hours ago, Fastmotion said:

do you mean that CVs repair tool works so long that ping is rejected on them?

In BBs that period is shorter.

I think it is fine for CVs. I wait ca 20 seconds and then ping again them but meanwhile you can send some guided torps still out. I think let Cvs have such long ping-immunity time.

 

 

I'm pinging CVs and it seems like the sonar is constantly and instantly cleared, even when I've gotten close and they've not been aware that I was there until the ping.

 

I've not played a CV since 2016 or something so I'm not sure how they work these days vis-a-vis the repair tool.

[Fastmotion]

13 minutes ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

I'm pinging CVs and it seems like the sonar is constantly and instantly cleared, even when I've gotten close and they've not been aware that I was there until the ping.

 

I've not played a CV since 2016 or something so I'm not sure how they work these days vis-a-vis the repair tool.

The enemy ship shows an "x"-symbol on it while there is no point to send the ping. I think the first time you send your ping activates ping-immunity for ca next 40 (?) seconds and after that is a 20 second window where pings are accepted. For BBs everything is the same but the immunity period is like 10 seconds long.

Main suggestion is not to play in a style where you send all torps all at once out and then they all miss. But you send out 1 guided torp, then you wait 1 - second and then next one until to the 6th (?). andsometimes yousend out only 2 and then you ping 3 times and then again 2 and then ping 3 times and then 2 again. In that case you don't loose all torps but some if enemy becomes immune from ping or erases the ping mark.

There is no big obstacle with CVs immunity period. It is not so long time range.

And other related suggestions are:

1) if you are 3km far from CV then use only meaty unguided torps of cause

2) if 3-5km from a DD then still use guided torps and ram if the torps fail.

Main teaching that i give to the enemy team are:

3) Subs should be most of the time above water (to spot and save oxigen)

4) Subs are DDs and should scout.

 

Both are mentality building suggestions which improves the result.

 

While guided torps are almost close to the marked enemy it is wise to ping new spots of the enemy ship so he cannot dodge so easily if those points changes by constant ping. Some suggest that too much ping shows where you are but once torps are arriving to the destination it is better to keep pinging.

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Cuddly_Spider said:

 

I'm pinging CVs and it seems like the sonar is constantly and instantly cleared, even when I've gotten close and they've not been aware that I was there until the ping.

 

I've not played a CV since 2016 or something so I'm not sure how they work these days vis-a-vis the repair tool.

According to imaginary guru math: 40 (?) = 60 and 20 seconds = 1,5 minutes. It all makes perfect sense when the objective is misinformation.

 

As far as I'm aware carriers have a DCP duration of 1 minute and a 1,5 minute cooldown, but I haven't paid much attention to the game's specifics for a long time now. Because it's best practice to link a depinging function to a tool that you can't turn nobs on to balance ofcoarse.  If correct, carriers can be immune to ping for 7,7 minutes total in a full 20 minute match with no way to balance it without messing up the other DCP functionality. Way to go game designers! 

 

When you take the time for torps to reach their targets into account, poorly timed launches can easily mess up your attack. If you are near a carrier in the back lines, why not dive, sail towards its location, pop up and shotgun it with unguided torps? I haven't played subs since they were first 'tested' (read introduced lol), because to me this game has completely gone tits up, but that would seem like the logical action would it not?

[Cuddly_Spider]

39 minutes ago, Fastmotion said:

The enemy ship shows an "x"-symbol on it while there is no point to send the ping. I think the first time you send your ping activates ping-immunity for ca next 40 (?) seconds and after that is a 20 second window where pings are accepted. For BBs everything is the same but the immunity period is like 10 seconds long.

Main suggestion is not to play in a style where you send all torps all at once out and then they all miss. But you send out 1 guided torp, then you wait 1 - second and then next one until to the 6th (?). andsometimes yousend out only 2 and then you ping 3 times and then again 2 and then ping 3 times and then 2 again. In that case you don't loose all torps but some if enemy becomes immune from ping or erases the ping mark.

There is no big obstacle with CVs immunity period. It is not so long time range.
 

 

I've just started to do this as a counter sub tactic, but I've not really adopted it against enemy ships yet. I'll give it a go, thanks for the suggestion.

 

Quote

And other related suggestions are:

1) if you are 3km far from CV then use only meaty unguided torps of cause

2) if 3-5km from a DD then still use guided torps and ram if the torps fail.

Main teaching that i give to the enemy team are:

3) Subs should be most of the time above water (to spot and save oxigen)

4) Subs are DDs and should scout.

 

Both are mentality building suggestions which improves the result.

 

While guided torps are almost close to the marked enemy it is wise to ping new spots of the enemy ship so he cannot dodge so easily if those points changes by constant ping. Some suggest that too much ping shows where you are but once torps are arriving to the destination it is better to keep pinging.

1. I've not had much luck with the unguided meat torps. The problem I've found with those is that, by the time you're close enough for them to be viable, the enemy is aware of your presence and is countering you.

 

2. In my experience, a sub vs a DD is not much of a contest and the sub is at a massive disadvantage. But then again I've not much experience with the game as it is. I stopped playing it properly about 2018 and only came back recently because of the addition of submarines.

 

I do 3 and 4 already, but the fact that your periscope is somehow as easy to spot as a whole other big-bummed ship makes scouting not really all that viable for the average player.

 

So I found subs good but challenging. The addition of a pointer that says "The sub is over here" with a 800m damage radius for bombs seems like virtual removal of them as a playable class for average players.

 

6 minutes ago, Europizza said:

According to imaginary guru math: 40 (?) = 60 and 20 seconds = 1,5 minutes. It all makes perfect sense when the objective is misinformation.

 

As far as I'm aware carriers have a DCP duration of 1 minute and a 1,5 minute cooldown, but I haven't paid much attention to the game's specifics for a long time now.Because it's best practice to link a depinging function to a tool that you can't turn nobs on to balance ofcoarse.  If correct, carriers can be immune to ping for 7,7 minutes total in a full 20 minute match with no way to balance it without messing up the other DCP functionality. Way to go game designers! 

 

When you take the time for torps to reach their targets into account, poorly timed launches can easily mess up your attack. If you are near a carrier in the back lines, why not dive, sail towards its location, pop up and shotgun it with unguided torps? I haven't played subs since they were first 'tested' (read introduced lol), because to me this game has completely gone tits up, but that would seem like the logical action would it not? 

Ok, now I get it. They basically linked the depinging function to something else that they can't fiddle around with too much, so have boxed themselves into a corner.

 

For people not really emersed in the game it has a broken feel about it.