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Riggerby

Teamkilling AI in Coop is a thing?

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Just finishing up a few final directives for the dockyard in coop when something really weird happened.

 

Starting off the game, Nothing out of the ordinary, I kill an enemy Skane who is the only enemy on this half of the map, There is noone behind him or to the east. Note the time is 17:55. (I'm not boasting about killing a Skane in coop lmao, I'ts just to show that he died wellll before the incident)

 

wowsf.thumb.jpg.76ce19a05dafabe9df424eee8d933f86.jpg

 

Now its 16:59, Almost a full minute has passed since the enemy Skane died and still absolutely nothing else is on that side of the map, I turn west to get back into the fight and our friendly AI skane then sails right across the front of me and dumps his torps into me.

wowsf.thumb.jpg.3f407fcfd3ff7cd6bc55b76fd294e733.jpg

 

Immediately i turn the camera behind to see if he was trying to torp an enemy who suddenly appeared or something, but no, There is literally noone there except the sinking enemy Skane who died an entire minute ago, The torps werent even headed to his wreck anyway, they were aimed at me. I am the only ship in the entire match to his east so there is absolutely noone he could be launching his torps at other than me.

wowsf.thumb.jpg.6d684cddb8a6de7a8b0024df3e537082.jpg


Edit - I just realized in the screenshot above the minimap is a little blury, So here it is zoomed in just so you can see nothing is over in that direction.

wowsf.jpg.4313166b5ec4984edfc7df0c19834938.jpg

 

 

Granted i don't play Coop very often, but has this always been a thing or is this just a weird bug in the AI programming ?

 

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WG is using deep learning, a specialized AI software that analyses the behavior of the average human player and applies these skills to their bots, to give co-op players a most realistic gaming experience. That's why you also see border hugging bots, bots that ground and don't find the 'S' key, bots that push you out of your own smoke, and so on :Smile-_tongue:

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It is rare but it can happen.

Maybe it is something with the AI Programming.

Maybe the torps were launched before they were turned towards the Enemy or your Ship identified as an Enemy for a short Time.

I don´t know

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[-LA-]
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ill eat a penalty to kill an AI DD from time to time just to stop them torping everything, maybe they have started fighting back

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[JRM]
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2 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

WG is using deep learning, a specialized AI software that analyses the behavior of the average human player and applies these skills to their bots, to give co-op players a most realistic gaming experience. That's why you also see border hugging bots, bots that ground and don't find the 'S' key, bots that push you out of your own smoke, and so on :Smile-_tongue:

Yep

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[BOBS3]
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Bots dangerously dumping torpedoes is a well known phenomenon, that I am sure is as a result of machine learning, but the OPs example does seem a little extreme. 

It does appear that Wargaming IS dumbing down the so called friendly bots in Coop.

However, I do believe that they are applying the machine learning to match the Bots to the influx of random players 'slumming it' in Coop for the missions.

Edited by Cambera_1
Clarity

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30 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

Bots dangerously dumping torpedoes is a well known phenomenon, that I am sure is as a result of machine learning, but the OPs example does seem a little extreme. 

It does appear that Wargaming IS dumbing down the so called friendly bots in Coop.

However, I do believe that they are applying the machine learning to match the Bots to the influx of random players 'slumming it' in Coop for the missions.

I wish they bring back the Bots from the Operation those are much better but 95% of the players got wiped so they reversed those bots. Now they are going straight to the enemy trying to kill the other bots Euh.. i mean players.

Torpedoing go wrong when there are a lot of bots and/or players are around what i noticed. Still it's good pratice to use W and S keys so it's good training for randoms.

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48 minutes ago, Onsterfelijke said:

I wish they bring back the Bots from the Operation those are much better but 95% of the players got wiped so they reversed those bots.

Teams got wiped in ops (and still are) because there were 50 bots vs 7 or 8 live players not because the bots were so smart, best bots I have seen so far were actually in the sub test as they worked pretty well aside from occasionally hitting a depthcharging green DD while shooting at a submerged sub but that can be forgiven as reading if the sub is below or above the treshold might have been to complex to be implemented easily into the AI at that time...

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12 hours ago, Onsterfelijke said:

I wish they bring back the Bots from the Operation those are much better but 95% of the players got wiped so they reversed those bots. Now they are going straight to the enemy trying to kill the other bots Euh..

I think @Yedwy 's comment above hit the nail on the head, The bots then were just as stupid as the bots now. The way they just rush straight in is still kind of similar. The difference is between those op's and coop is in coop a human player only has to deal with 1 or 2 bots suicide rushing into them at any given moment. In the Operations there was half a dozen bots constantly bearing down on each player. For example, The Human BB's, if they got even 1 bad RNG roll on a salvo, Thats 30s those half a dozen enemy ships have to close the gap and get into ram / torp range. Basically every salvo had to be perfect or the human team just physically couldn't reload quickly enough to kill things fast enough. Its sort of like Zombies on Call Of Duty. The really stupid zombies are easy to kill on round 1 when there are only a few of them charging towards you, But even though they're equally stupid on round 20, there is simply so many of them you just struggle to kill them quickly enough to keep em away.

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12 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Teams got wiped in ops (and still are) because there were 50 bots vs 7 or 8 live players not because the bots were so smart, best bots I have seen so far were actually in the sub test as they worked pretty well aside from occasionally hitting a depthcharging green DD while shooting at a submerged sub but that can be forgiven as reading if the sub is below or above the treshold might have been to complex to be implemented easily into the AI at that time...

there was a period, maybe 3 years ago now, where operations bots where 1v1ing good players, and winning the duels enough times that many people got really mad about it. others liked the extra team-work and clan activities.

i still think pve should have difficulty options.

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Well, I dont think WG can boast with Machine Learning at all with probably having most dumbest bots in entire gaming industry! Bots in your side in coop quite often  shoot you if you are between it and enemy bot!

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5 hours ago, Keijo_Kalmakoura said:

Well, I dont think WG can boast with Machine Learning at all with probably having most dumbest bots in entire gaming industry! Bots in your side in coop quite often  shoot you if you are between it and enemy bot!

have pinkie teacher, learn pinkie traits.

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On 10/22/2020 at 9:44 AM, Yedwy said:

Teams got wiped in ops (and still are) because there were 50 bots vs 7 or 8 live players not because the bots were so smart, best bots I have seen so far were actually in the sub test as they worked pretty well aside from occasionally hitting a depthcharging green DD while shooting at a submerged sub but that can be forgiven as reading if the sub is below or above the treshold might have been to complex to be implemented easily into the AI at that time...

I think Mr Conway or crythons said on the stream that operations are not being considered for 2021 AND then one of them said about the AI that they tried to upgrade the AI and for 1-3 months players got wiped in Coop as the AI were the upgraded operations bots.

If i understand them wrong maybe they could comment on this?

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5 minutes ago, Onsterfelijke said:

I think Mr Conway or crythons said on the stream that operations are not being considered for 2021 AND then one of them said about the AI that they tried to upgrade the AI and for 1-3 months players got wiped in Coop as the AI were the upgraded operations bots.

If i understand them wrong maybe they could comment on this?

Coop bots on public were never ops bots AFAIR

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Let's ask @MrConway if he could comment on what he said on the stream about the AI of BoTS and the attempt to put the Operation bots in Coop.

 

@MrConway if you mind to explain to me if i understood your comments?

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[CATCH]
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I think there might be something amiss in the latest patch. In one game yesterday the same friendly bot nearly got me with torps three times. For the first two I was busy so can't say exactly what happened but for the final one I was paying attention and the torps were definately not fired at a hostile but backwards towards me, much as the OP described.

 

Could just be coincidence but there were no valid targets or even hostile ships on the map in the direction the torps were fired, most odd.

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Beta Tester
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I have posted it in a (now censor edited) thread long time ago.

 

I sent a complaint about the AI to customer support but was just being made fun of.

Then I sent feedback to this thread and was happilly ignored:

 

Bots torp teammates when there is no enemy around, they specifically aim at the player as he would be an enemy.

Also WG decided to fill up random battles with bots.

 

Another great example how customer feedback is handled by WG. Flushed down the toilet would be a mild expression.

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Happens often. I say that if WG can't even keep Bots from damaging each other (they ARE part of the program), why are they so anal when dispersion sends a random shell into an 'ally'.

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