[Basics] Spotting mechanics

[Sharana]

Thats mind boggling in respect to fire distance, shell speed, gravity and trajectory curve. Is trajectory curve the real world physic, or completely artificial? Is shell speed measured in ship scale units or world units?  Obviously if the usual 10km distance of fire would be shortened 2,5times - 4 km, thats almost direct fire for battleship guns,  ... ugh.   But if shells speed use map scale, then travel time to 10 km would be something like 12-15 seconds, not true either.  That means, shell speed keeps ship scale (2,5 faster than should be) but to keep trajectory curving for map scale they had to increase gravity factor. 

Sorry for the rant I just had to get the thought out of my head in semicoherent way.

The trajectory is real as it should, just the ships are faster, so they can cover more distance in the 20min game and they are much larger, so it's easy to hit them from big distance, because no gamer would play with historical hit rates.

[Nethraniel]

The trajectory is real as it should, just the ships are faster, so they can cover more distance in the 20min game and they are much larger, so it's easy to hit them from big distance, because no gamer would play with historical hit rates.

Let alone, realistical battle times... the Bismarck was shelled 90 minutes with lots of damage but without sinking.

[Gaulwa]

Question: What about the 3 millions credit ship module that increase acquisition range by 20% ?

Does this module allow you to see invisible ships 20% farther? Torpedoes?

 

If this only increase the distance at which ships are drawn, what is the utility of this module? Every ship's acquisition range is already far enough to cover most ship's firing range in the game.

From the screenshot, even a DD, the smallest ship has 17km of acquisition range. The only utility would be to eventually spot that Yamato 22km away if and only if his detectability is beyond 22km? (meaning he would have to fire his gun and be on fire... but if he's firing his gun, he is probably already in firing range and acquisition range of other ships.)

Is this correct?

[Sharana]

Yes the module seems to be useless. Some DDs with 20km torps can't lock on targets to fire thos torps from max range ... but at the same time they need the concealment module instead of this one.

[Gaulwa]

I see, thanks for the reply.

Even with 20km range torps, I don't think there is much use to lock the target. it will most probably have turned by then, or the torps will be too dispersed. 20-25km range is mainly good to flood a narrow path.

The rest of the ships have an acquisition range much farther than their firing range.

[Keulz]

Question: What about the 3 millions credit ship module that increase acquisition range by 20% ?

Does this module allow you to see invisible ships 20% farther? Torpedoes?

 

It allows you to "reduce the camo" of the ennemies by 20% the same way the concealment module reduce your spotting range by 10%, this one increase your ennemies' spotting range by 20%.

 

About detection from scouts planes, since there are mechanics with 2 different kinds of planes from non-CV ships, what are the differences ?

[Sharana]

It allows you to "reduce the camo" of the ennemies by 20% the same way the concealment module reduce your spotting range by 10%, this one increase your ennemies' spotting range by 20%.

 

About detection from scouts planes, since there are mechanics with 2 different kinds of planes from non-CV ships, what are the differences ?

 

Nope read again what the acquisition range is.

The detection for scout planes was explained too. Scouts have 4km proximity spot and can't see ships behind island 5km away as there is no clear line of sight while CV plane can.

[horned_owl]

Thank you very much for so helpful guide!

[Madhax]

Yet another excellent guide.

Very helpful and thank you for putting it together!

 

[_xalt]

Can someone put down a numerical value, for in-game knots, for how slow a DD must be travelling in a straight line, to avoid getting seen while popping smoke? Been killed a lot of times despite slowing down in smoke, but not entirely sure how slow I must go. If each smoke puff is really a 450m radius, and the DD is, say 250m long(2.5x scaling), assuming the smoke puff is generated from the centre of the ship, then 450m-(125m) =325m. 325m/5seconds = 162knots which is absurd. Just as a DD player, I must know what the maximum speed to go in smoke is. It's probably really slow(10knots, maybe?), but I want to know for sure.

 

EDIT: Just did some googling and found that smoke generators are usually on the rear of the ship. So assuming that the puff is created at the end of the ship, and if the ship is 250m long, then 450-250=200m, which means 200m in 5 seconds, which is 40m/s or 77.8 knots. But this can't be right, I know as a DD player going any faster than 20 knots, you are sure to get revealed in smoke. Unless the speed in the game is scaled too?

[Sharana]

Speed and distance are scaled. You need ~1/4 speed.

[younis_ramos]

very good explanation thnx dude 

[horned_owl]

I've just heard there are some penalties when DD's engine boost is activated. [source]

EDIT: link is added now

[Sharana]

I've just heard there are some penalties when DD's engine boost is activated. [source]

EDIT: link is added now

 

Yes there was such info on the RU and the bug (or unintentional feature) was confirmed. They will look at the stats and decide if they want to keep it (with rebalance of course) or scrap it.

I never saw any numbers however and have no idea exacly how much the detection range is in this case.

[Nethraniel]

 

Yes there was such info on the RU and the bug (or unintentional feature) was confirmed. They will look at the stats and decide if they want to keep it (with rebalance of course) or scrap it.

I never saw any numbers however and have no idea exacly how much the detection range is in this case.

 

From my ingame tests, It is a fixed number at around 200-300m, maybe a bit more from air.

[Ballz_Up]

Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit odd that the spotting range from the skies is smaller then from sea level?

[Unintentional_submarine]

 

The scout planes can be detected from both surface and air at 4km, while the other planes get spotted from 8km.

 

Hey Sharana, this doesn't appear to be the case any longer.

I got prompted to run a Training Room test of this, and planes only get detected at around 6.5km at best. I only got visual confirmation at 6.2km, but I allowed for a bit more for rendering, like when a ship pops up from behind an island. This was not a case of rendering distance, as the planes weren't visible on the minimap until I could see them.

 

Admittedly it was only for one combination of ship and planes, Aoba vs Ryujo. It is not inconceivable to me that other combinations could have different results. However that too would mean the information is wrong.

The essence is that the detection range for carrier planes does not appear to be the same as before.

[Sharana]

 

I have the feeling that IJN planes are spotted later then IJN and it can be ~6.5km instead of 7.5-8. But I couldn't get more info and the last one from the OBT launch was - there shouldn't be changes with planes visibility.

 

[Unintentional_submarine]

Sharana, on 09 August 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

I have the feeling that IJN planes are spotted later then IJN and it can be ~6.5km instead of 7.5-8. But I couldn't get more info and the last one from the OBT launch was - there shouldn't be changes with planes visibility.

 

All right, will run a few other tests and post the results informally.
 

Unintentional_submarine, on 09 August 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

 

All right, will run a few other tests and post the results informally.

 

So ran the tests.

 

Yes, USN planes get spotted at about 8km. Slightly less, but I will put that down to rendering again.

So I wondered. Maybe it is because of the bigger squadrons. And maybe each plane adds a bit of detection range.

 

So 6 planes are 8km, and 1 plane is 4km. That means that if it is a linear progression, each plane would add 0.8km of detection (adding 5 planes increases detection by 4km). So if we take the 4km for one plane as the basic range, and then add the value of three planes onto that (IJN squadron have three planes more per 'squadron' than scouts), we get 6.4km. Which would fit nicely with my observations in my IJN tests. Thus presumably, when you get the T5 skill Air Superiority you get more detectable fighters and dive bombers.

 

In any case, I feel the numbers add up nicely.

 

[Jacktor]

Thanks Sharana, translated into hungarian language (5k+ viewer).

[yXOLAXy]

It will be as you say, but in reality the game is not so

here turn DD with a Klingon style .... arrive at close range firing torpedoes always in total invisibility ... if they use the smoke then disappear from the map, back in pure smokescreen shoot and launch torpedoes total invisibility.
In contrast, I'm already 15 km detected, if I use the smoke come always detected .... not to mention the damage that I suffer with DD, for every game I always receive at least two salvos of shots that damage the steering / transmission a precision sniper which makes me suspicious and not a little.

[StuntMan0369]

You are not being spotted at 15km away by ships. That's not possible, you are probably being spotted by planes or by another DD that has a better camo rating than yours (Frequently happens to US DD's, less so for IJN). Unless you have a replay to back up the claims, it's a case of your word against the game mechanics, and the game mechanics win everytime.

[yXOLAXy]

You are not being spotted at 15km away by ships. That's not possible, you are probably being spotted by planes or by another DD that has a better camo rating than yours (Frequently happens to US DD's, less so for IJN). Unless you have a replay to back up the claims, it's a case of your word against the game mechanics, and the game mechanics win everytime.

 

what I perceive in the game is totally different DD I find that come and go from nowhere

not to mention that strange case damage to the transmission / propulsion are at least 2 to 3 times per game, counting means that are fast and having to anticipate their run to hit them I find that many are able to hit the back just to cause this type of damage. ... not surprise me if it were already in circulation aim-bot style warpack where you can select the type of critical point that interests you ... wot teaches!

[mtm78]

 

what I perceive in the game is totally different DD I find that come and go from nowhere

not to mention that strange case damage to the transmission / propulsion are at least 2 to 3 times per game, counting means that are fast and having to anticipate their run to hit them I find that many are able to hit the back just to cause this type of damage. ... not surprise me if it were already in circulation aim-bot style warpack where you can select the type of critical point that interests you ... wot teaches!

 

Nope, not that we're aware of anyway. Module dmg on DD's has always been high, couple of patches ago they got even more fragile ( same can be noticed on CL/CA ), there is no hack for that needed.

 

ps, I always try to shoot the back ( and if not trying, dd's go so fast it's likely your lead is sooner to short ( hitting closer to back ) then to long ( hitting him in the front ). The reason good players aim for the back is because a DD which has engine/rudder knocked out is a much easier kill.

 

Don't confuse skill with cheats, not to mention you seem to accuse people of using 'cloaking' hacks but it seems to me you just don't understand the spotting mechanics. 

[StuntMan0369]

 

what I perceive in the game is totally different DD I find that come and go from nowhere

not to mention that strange case damage to the transmission / propulsion are at least 2 to 3 times per game, counting means that are fast and having to anticipate their run to hit them I find that many are able to hit the back just to cause this type of damage. ... not surprise me if it were already in circulation aim-bot style warpack where you can select the type of critical point that interests you ... wot teaches!

 

Wow, you are really attributing the use of an aim assist to the fact you lose propulsion multiple times a game? News flash; DD's have no protection what-so-ever, so any hit to the engine (Even a HE splash near the ship) can knock it out. Same goes for steering gear, and experienced players know to aim for these first where possible. Also, as a DD - the most manoeuvrable class in the game, aim assist is almost totally useless, unless you're sailing in a predictable course.