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The_EURL_Guy

Submarine Testing

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[THESO]
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2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

 

 

I fully understand your concerns. See, somebody thinks, that Submarines are OP, broken or other stuff. But clearly those changes will change Submarine gameplay, but also is making their life much more difficult. But we need to test all those changes to know, how exactly they work in bigger scale, so in future we can do some tweaks

 

 

 

I am aware you like to do MinMax Testing of Extreme Cases to see the potential effects.

And I am Frankly said no Friend of it. Cause Past Results of CV Rework have not exactly been a Showcase of Succesful Balancing....

 

But even Ignoring this. The Bigger Problem is that you wont even get any Valid Data from this anyways. Because the only ones Participating in the Test will be the People that are Actively Following such things and which are Interested in Subs themselves.

Meaning you not only get a Far Smaller Base to begin with. But get one that is even more Biased towards wanting to Play Subs.

And as you get a Free Sub right Away and only very little incentive to bother playing other Ships. I can already Predict that this will be another case of 200 Submarines in queue as the Matchmaker somehow tries to Distribute the 3 Players that didnt Pick a Sub into a Battle with 6 of 50 Submarine Players that have already been sitting in Queue for more than 5 Minutes.

 

So instead of getting an Actual Test of the Gameplay with Subs. What you will get is another case of both Teams Yoloing Forward at each other like in a Coop Battle.

 

 

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[ARKA]
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Will there ever be an option to play a game WITHOUT submarines???

 

And on another note, why dont you give the submarines their historical speeds just like you insisted with all other classes??

 

Submarines are such a bad idea it is not even funny.

 

And why should we trust WG in their implementation when the same company promised that subs will NEVER be implemented in the game???

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[-TAP-]
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Still testing?

 

Good, good, premium has nearly run out, quite looking forward to playing Elite again....

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Před 26 minutami Sunleader řekl/a:

 

I am aware you like to do MinMax Testing of Extreme Cases to see the potential effects.

And I am Frankly said no Friend of it. Cause Past Results of CV Rework have not exactly been a Showcase of Succesful Balancing....

 

But even Ignoring this. The Bigger Problem is that you wont even get any Valid Data from this anyways. Because the only ones Participating in the Test will be the People that are Actively Following such things and which are Interested in Subs themselves.

Meaning you not only get a Far Smaller Base to begin with. But get one that is even more Biased towards wanting to Play Subs.

And as you get a Free Sub right Away and only very little incentive to bother playing other Ships. I can already Predict that this will be another case of 200 Submarines in queue as the Matchmaker somehow tries to Distribute the 3 Players that didnt Pick a Sub into a Battle with 6 of 50 Submarine Players that have already been sitting in Queue for more than 5 Minutes.

 

So instead of getting an Actual Test of the Gameplay with Subs. What you will get is another case of both Teams Yoloing Forward at each other like in a Coop Battle.

 

 

We will see from the test itself. Of course best way how to test it would be in similar way, how we did it last time - on live server in separate mode. But now there are more changes, last time also G key was assigned only for this test, so we didn't want to confuse players again with that.

Also last time it was longer, but this one for now only from 22nd to 27th October. This will allow us to see, how well it went and if to do some another changes. After that we can decide if to run another one on TST, or to try live servers again. But from the beginning of next update, we will already have special mode - Halloween battles, so I am not sure, if it is even possible to have two special modes at the same time and also, it would be too much, imo.

 

 

Před 24 minutami imoenbg1 řekl/a:

Will there ever be an option to play a game WITHOUT submarines???

 

And on another note, why dont you give the submarines their historical speeds just like you insisted with all other classes??

 

Submarines are such a bad idea it is not even funny.

 

And why should we trust WG in their implementation when the same company promised that subs will NEVER be implemented in the game???

It is still not decided when and how will submarines be distributed to the game, not in testing mode.

So only after that we will provide information about possibilites, where to fight with or against them and where not.

The speed is higher as it would be very boring with historical setups, as submarines were sluggish. Also not every speed setup of surface ship is really historical.

 

We are sorry for the sentence, that was said several years ago. As was explained, that time we couldn't see an option, how submarines would be implemented to the game. With the years, game developed and now it is possible, as you can see. Therefore our colleague also appologized for that...

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[PASOK]
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1 hour ago, TunaRoll said:

Somehow the new mechanics seems off in my opinion: as a BB you click one button and all of a sudden one or two planes arrive out of NOWHERE (not even from the ship itself) in the middle of an ocean to drop bombs (and magically disappear afterwards)?! This lacks any logic or some type of realism (even in an arcade game). This is breaking the atmosphere, at least for me.

 

More important:

Gameplay wise this feels greatly underwhelming and booring to play. Actually i like the game because it feels to some extent quite realistic to drive and manage every mechanic of a warship as its captain, now we have to call some sad and bored World of Warplanes players to help out sinking a submarine real quick..... This is the most booring mechanic ive ever seen, which only shows how interrupting and atmosphere damaging the new class submarine is to the game... IT does not feel right or make fun at all. It feels more like a task that you DONT LIKE BUT YOU HAVE TO DO.

 

Again, this game is made and designed for SURFACE COMBAT only. There were three classes that counter each other: BB counters CC, CC counters DD, DD counters BB - this systems worked just perfectly. The implementation of the CVs damaged the balance since CVs cant be really countered (until very very late game in very small cases) and interacted with as a surface ship. That is the reason why CVs still feel like a forced failure in terms of game designs. Now, with another class, that is not a surface ship (most of its time), the whole balance will be even more off. Most of the time you cant really interact with the submarines as a surface ship - ONE defensive ability is all you have, just like pushing a button for AA. How is this supposed to be fun and engaging? How is this supposed to be an addition to the game? It just makes everything even harder and more problematic in terms of balancing. It feels like an OBSTACLE that you have to overcome to have fun in the game. Heck, there is a big part of the playerbase that dont even want the class to be in the game...

 

In my opinion, this is a prime example of how a developer's greed can ruin a kinda good functioning gameplay completely. I wish they would fix the current problems and the CV mechanic before they even continue testing subs....but hey, it is WG that is trying everything to force that failure by design (which is called submarines) down our throats.

 

I am very disappointed and wont put anymore money into this game.

What the [CENSORED] is a CC.

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[3DKM]
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Vor 1 Stunde, imoenbg1 sagte:

Will there ever be an option to play a game WITHOUT submarines???

 

And on another note, why dont you give the submarines their historical speeds just like you insisted with all other classes??

 

Submarines are such a bad idea it is not even funny.

 

And why should we trust WG in their implementation when the same company promised that subs will NEVER be implemented in the game???

I truly hope that they make an own game mode for subs.

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[ARKA]
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1 hour ago, YabbaCoe said:

It is still not decided when and how will submarines be distributed to the game, not in testing mode.

So only after that we will provide information about possibilites, where to fight with or against them and where not.

The speed is higher as it would be very boring with historical setups, as submarines were sluggish. Also not every speed setup of surface ship is really historical.

 

We are sorry for the sentence, that was said several years ago. As was explained, that time we couldn't see an option, how submarines would be implemented to the game. With the years, game developed and now it is possible, as you can see. Therefore our colleague also appologized for that...

 

Ah, let me remind you  of  "No guns bigger than those of Yamato" as well.

 

As for the speed, the main argument for not increasing the speed of American battleships was - not historically accurate. Since there are so many sub enthusiasts - let them experience the real boring thing.

 

Or give them their own mode. Just keep them out of randoms.

 

Why would the rest of the players suffer. It is called World of Warships not World of Submarines.

 

If I wanted a sub simulator I would play one of the other better ones.

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23 hours ago, WWDragon said:

 

As long those wire-guided torpedoes exist I have absolutely no interest in submarines, not because they are broken but because they are unhistorical bullcrap and not because of "balance" reasons but because some developer at WG decided in this gameplay design that simply put, in my opinion is crap.

in late 1800 and early 1900 ther where wired torpedoes, as coastal defence steered by winches :D But yeah They had wired project before WW2 but it was postponed until 1956 it was the MK 39 torpedo latterin 59 the mk48 was born.

I would prefrer just normal torpedoes fire at a line and hope you hit, instad of homing or wired torpedoes


torpedoes were given acoustic (homing) guidance systems, with the American Mark 24 mine and Mark 27 torpedo and the German G7es torpedo. Pattern-following and wake homing torpedoes were also developed

PASSIVE ACOUSTIC HOMING TORPEDO DEVELOPMENT

In 1943, it became known in the technical community that the Germans were using a torpedo called the German Naval Acoustic Torpedo (GNAT) with terminal homing, a torpedo that guided itself to contact with the target by the noise generated by the ship's propellers (cavitation). German development of the GNAT had been known in the U.S. Intelligence community, and in 1940, the NDRC sponsored a project to develop an acoustic homing torpedo. The project was headed by Western Electric; the homing system effort was centered at the Bell Telephone Laboratories and the Harvard Underwater Sound Laboratory. Engineering development of the torpedo, Mine Mk 24 (mine being a misnomer for security reasons), was assigned to Western Electric Co., Kearney, N.J. and the General Electric (G.E.) Engineering and Consulting Laboratories, Schenectady, N.Y. Following successful evaluation of the prototypes, production was started in 1942 Western Electric Co., Kearney, N.J. and at the G.E. Co., Erie Works, and later at the G.E. Co., Philadelphia, Pa. Approximately 10,000 units were ordered, but the order was reduced due to the high effectiveness of the weapon. (The Mine Mk 24 was also known by the code name "Fido".)

The Mine Mk 30, again a misnomer, was developed by the Brush Development Co., Cleveland, Ohio, concurrent with the Mine Mk 24 because of apprehension regarding the acoustic steering of the Mine Mk 24.

The Mine Mk 30 was unique in that it was only 10 inches in diameter and weighed only 265 pounds including a 50-pound warhead. It was nearly identical to Torpedo Mk 43 Mod 1 which was to follow a decade later except that the Mine Mk 30 employed passive acoustic bearing system rather than the active acoustic homing system of the Torpedo Mk 43 Mod 1.

 

 

 


Development was successfully completed in 1943, but was not produced since Mine Mk 24 had demonstrated satisfactory performance late in 1942.

After making its debut in July 1943 with the sinking of the U 160 in the Atlantic, about 340 Mines Mk 24 (figure 16) were launched by the Allied forces in World War II. Two hundred-four of these were against submarine targets with the following results:

 

1. Number of attacks on U-boats - 204,

2. Number of U-boats sunk - 37 (18 percent),

3. Number of U-boats damaged - 18 (9 percent).

The U.S. forces, with a better opportunity for adequate training in the use of the mine, achieved the following results from 142 attacks on U-boats:

 

1. Number of U-boats sunk - 31 (22 percent),

2. Number of U-boats damaged - 15 (10 percent).

 

Mine Mk 24
Figure 16. Mine Mk 24

A comparison of the effectiveness of Mine Mk 24 with aircraft-launched depth charges indicate that when depth charges were used, 9.5 percent of the U-boats attacked were sunk, but when Mine Mk 24 was used, 22 percent were sunk.

In approximately the same time frame, engineering development was started at Western Electric on an electric anti-escort torpedo. Torpedo Mk 27 Mod 0, or "Cutie," was the adaptation of Mine Mk 24 for submarine use, and saw service starting late 1944/early 1945 in the Pacific theater.

 

 

 


About 106 Torpedoes Mk 27 Mod 0 were fired during World War II, with 33 hits (31 percent) resulting in 24 ships sunk and 9 ships damaged. Based on an analysis of salvo firing of nonhoming torpedoes against escort-type ships, a single Torpedo Mk 27 achieved the same results against escorts as a salvo of the larger nonhoming torpedoes.

In the departure from the practice of the time for the purpose of obtaining a quiet launching, Torpedo Mk 27 was started while still in the torpedo tube and swam out under its own power, requiring 8 to 10 seconds to clear the tube. The noisy ejection of the conventional torpedo was thus eliminated.

With successful application of the passive homing feature to "mission kill" or crippling weapons characterized by small warheads, application to large antisurface ship weapons logically followed, thus, the development of Torpedo Mk 28 by Westinghouse Electric Corp., Sharon, Pa., in the later World War II years. The Mk 28 was a full-size (21-inch diameter by 21-foot length), electrically-propelled submarine torpedo, with a speed of 20 knots and a range of approximately 4000 yards. This torpedo was also gyro-controlled on a preset course for the first 1000 yards, at which point the acoustic homing system was activated. The explosive charge was also increased to approximately 600 pounds.

About 14 Torpedoes Mk 28 were fired during World War II resulting in four hits. Since this torpedo was made available late in the war without adequate training in its tactical use, the number of hits was not as large as expected. The tendency to regard the acoustic homing torpedo as a device that could correct for any kind of fire control error was a factor in its low success rate. Nevertheless, the Mk 28 demonstrated that it was possible to successfully include acoustic homing in a full-size, submarine-launched torpedo.

ACTIVE ACOUSTIC HOMING TORPEDO DEVELOPMENT

The acoustic weapons developed and deployed during World War II were passive; they listened for a sound and then indiscriminately attacked the source. This technique, while far more effective than any preceding it, had limitations against a ship at slow speed, a submarine running deep, a submarine sitting on the bottom, or a ship employing countermeasures such as a stream of bubbles or a noisemaker.

Investigation of the use of echo-ranging equipment or an "active" homing torpedo system was initiated under the auspices of NDRC in 1941 at the G.E. Co. Research Laboratory, Schenectady, N.Y. Active homing differs from passive homing in that, with active homing, the torpedo steers on the basis of the signal returned by the target through reflection of the torpedo's own transmitted signal. In mid-1942, G.E. began development of the first active homing torpedo, Torpedo Mk 32, which was physically similar to Mine Mk 24 (figure 17).

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[WG]
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Před 4 hodinami ZeuSueZ1337 řekl/a:

Appreciated. Albeit the answer I was expecting.

Thanks regardless.

Hello. I received that info, unfortunately negative for you.

On Steam you can reach only live server and PT. But there is no connection for TST. So if you would like to test Submarines, you have to use WGC for that.

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[3DKM]
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Vor 28 Minuten, imoenbg1 sagte:

 

Ah, let me remind you  of  "No guns bigger than those of Yamato" as well.

 

As for the speed, the main argument for not increasing the speed of American battleships was - not historically accurate. Since there are so many sub enthusiasts - let them experience the real boring thing.

 

Or give them their own mode. Just keep them out of randoms.

 

Why would the rest of the players suffer. It is called World of Warships not World of Submarines.

 

If I wanted a sub simulator I would play one of the other better ones.

+1! Absolutely true. 

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3 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

At beginning people will fail more then later, that's obvious. But then, if player don't play for the win has noting to do with Subs or any ship. There are People, who go with secondary build and think they have to melee brawl in the first minutes. There are people who chase a CV as a DD. There are people, who went full aggressive in a cruiser.

The issue are the people, not the vessel.

Balance is also a quite pointless term, since there is no way for "Balance" since ships are too different. Even without CV or SS:

Where is a DD balanced in a BB/Cruiser game? The only counter is another DD. Or a radar, though that is predictable by a good DD player. So the counter against DD is a DD. That's also not really balanced, Ships are uneven.

 

I expect, that I won't  have issues against SS in a DD as general case. Sometimes it might be unlucky, but this game has unlucky moments.

Yes, ofc it is the players. That's the Whole problem. I honestly believe introducing this class into the game will be like the old RTS CVs were the bad one got roflstomped

Problem here is that to Counter subs u need decent to good DD players and an average sub player.

If u end up With a bad DD player vs good sub player or vice versa, the team who is on the short end will suffer more than now.

That's the Whole problem With subs. It's a huge balancing and gameplay problem. Been saying it for ages. 

U have players in this game who get proximity detected in their DDs by BBs...….and u need to rely on these players to hunt subs?

When they die u not only have the enemy DDs to Counter, u also have their subs hunting you.

And that is a serious problem.

Subs have no Place in PvP in this game.

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20 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

I still am very pessimistic about the impact of subs on the game but I am conflicted;

 

Participate allowing me to give feedback (which WG will ignore) and WG will take that as proof the number of participants means subs are amazing or

 

Dont participate and all the people who wants subs no matter how badly implemented give only glowing or please buff feedback. 

 

Either way subs are coming WG see $$$ in subs, all I want is for them to be not broken and nothing I saw in that video gives me any confidence. 

or "Catch-22" :Smile_trollface:

 

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Před 50 minutami imoenbg1 řekl/a:

 

Ah, let me remind you  of  "No guns bigger than those of Yamato" as well.

 

As for the speed, the main argument for not increasing the speed of American battleships was - not historically accurate. Since there are so many sub enthusiasts - let them experience the real boring thing.

 

Or give them their own mode. Just keep them out of randoms.

 

Why would the rest of the players suffer. It is called World of Warships not World of Submarines.

 

If I wanted a sub simulator I would play one of the other better ones.

Well, technically... it is still Yamato-class ship, that has biggest guns...

 

Btw how do you know that others will suffer that much? You think that Submarines will be broken OP, if you call it World of Submarines? Submarine is still a warship...

Also it wasn't really determined how many submarines will be maximum per each side...

 

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2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

It is still not decided when and how will submarines be distributed to the game, not in testing mode.

So only after that we will provide information about possibilites, where to fight with or against them and where not.

The speed is higher as it would be very boring with historical setups, as submarines were sluggish. Also not every speed setup of surface ship is really historical.

What happened to "IF"?

In the past u had that Word describing release of subs. 

If they will be released to randoms or stay in a separate mode.

So u are actually saying they will come to randoms no matter what?

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Před 14 minutami SirAmra řekl/a:

What happened to "IF"?

In the past u had that Word describing release of subs. 

If they will be released to randoms or stay in a separate mode.

So u are actually saying they will come to randoms no matter what?

It is still if, as it is not decided yet and it is far from being set in stone, that they will arrive back to live servers and if they will be in random battles, or in separate. They will be part of core game eventually, but so far I guess nobody knows how exactly...

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[PROAS]
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En mi opinion, al introducir los submarinos, puede que se consiga aportar al juego, tanto en partidas aleatorias como de cooperacion, algo que falta; UNIDAD DE EQUIPO.Normalmente en las partidas es raro encontrar jugadores que apoyen. Cada uno va a lo suyo. Con los submarinos, habrá que jugar mas compenetrados si se quiere ganar la partida. Por otro lado, los CV tambien son tediosos de jugar. Muchas veces derriban toda tu escuadrilla antes de inflingir daño alguno. Y WG no mejora esos puntos. Tener submarinos es una opcion mas de juego. Como los DD. Si quieres los juegas y si no los dejas.Es cuestion de divertirse.

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23 minutes ago, salescsan said:

En mi opinion, al introducir los submarinos, puede que se consiga aportar al juego, tanto en partidas aleatorias como de cooperacion, algo que falta; UNIDAD DE EQUIPO.Normalmente en las partidas es raro encontrar jugadores que apoyen. Cada uno va a lo suyo. Con los submarinos, habrá que jugar mas compenetrados si se quiere ganar la partida. Por otro lado, los CV tambien son tediosos de jugar. Muchas veces derriban toda tu escuadrilla antes de inflingir daño alguno. Y WG no mejora esos puntos. Tener submarinos es una opcion mas de juego. Como los DD. Si quieres los juegas y si no los dejas.Es cuestion de divertirse.

Captain, 

This is the English section of the Forum: please, write your feedback in English the next time 😊.

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4 minutes ago, TheWarJaC said:

Capitán, 

Esta es la sección en inglés del Foro: por favor, escriba sus comentarios en inglés la próxima vez  😊 .

Sorry. 

In my opinion, by introducing the submarines, it may be possible to contribute to the game, both in random and cooperative games, something that is missing; TEAM UNIT - Normally in games it is rare to find supportive players. Each one goes to his own. With submarines, you will have to play more closely if you want to win the game. On the other hand, CVs are also tedious to play with. Many times they take down your entire squad before dealing any damage. And WG does not improve those points. Having submarines is one more game option. Like the DD. If you want, you play them and if you don't, it's a matter of having fun.

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Down loaded this but will not accept my password or Email address. Do I need a different password to wargaming net than to World of warships.

My World of warships will not let me in on sub practise game.

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Před 1 minutou buccaneer_invader řekl/a:

Down loaded this but will not accept my password or Email address. Do I need a different password to wargaming net than to World of warships.

My World of warships will not let me in on sub practise game.

You should be able to use your EU login details. Probably this happened because this server is still not up, as Submarine testing on TST starts tomorrow.

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My major issue playing subs last time was the depth controls.....can you please make some preset depths to cycle through ??  like with our speed .  Or atleast make a shortcut to enter periscope depth.
Last time was a nightmare to get into the correct periscope depth...i found myself cursing that more than anything else,
I still do not understand why we need that ping mechanism   i am sure that giving subs the  same torpedo firing options as the UK ships with single/spread firing would work alot better....both for the sub...and their targets.
The "ignore" armor thing is so arcade its borderline embarrasing.

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On 10/20/2020 at 3:00 PM, The_EURL_Guy said:

A new stage of submarine testing! Participate and check out the changes to the ship type and mechanics!


Read it on the portal

How to particpate in submarine testing on steam?

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