Why I didn't get into the game.

[Piotrzeci]

I tried playing WoWs and after around 350h I gave up. I by no means am an experienced player, I only got to two tier IX's, but the thing is I got discouraged from playing  any further. It's just my rant about things, probably there will be someone to tell me each of points I make is wrong, but I just want to mention why, despite liking a lot about the game, I gave up on it. 

 

I'll start with two easy to change mechanics

1. Aiming behind islands. 

Aiming is only possible into spots that are visible in a straight line from where you are aiming, which means it's not possible to aim into spots that are close behind an island. But the thing is, you can shoot there, the shells can go there due to the arcs, and if there is a visible enemy ship there, the game will default to aiming at that distance and let you shoot at them normally. However if there is no enemy ship visible the game assumes you are aiming at the island... I have no idea why. There is absolutely no benefit to shooting an island, so why doesn't it just assume you are aiming behind it and allow free movement of the aiming spot through the minimap. If there is an island in the way then it can block shots, but don't block aiming.

2. Aircraft carrier controls 

Why is there no button for "return to CV for a sec, while the planes continue flying in a straight line"? I just want to adjust course a bit, slow down or activate priority sector on my CV. Why does it require me to fully recall the squadron and keeps me stuck with minimap path making. Just let me go back into CV for a moment, while the planes are flying.

 

And two things that can't just be changed, but still ruined my fun

3. HE spammers

It just feels so tiring to be under fire from one. I can just feel my will to play draining as I am being shot by one. And since (1) stands, sometimes it's obvious where the shots come from and it's a possible spot to hit, but isn't allowed because the ship isn't technically spotted. I don't think it's just my personal feeling, but it isn't fun to fight one of them. Regardless of how strong they are, they are just annoying. A game is supposed to be fun and having something that just feels like a pain to deal with isn't the way to go.

4. (Well prepare your pitchforks) DDs

DDs are an important part of the game and there are plenty of things to like about them; they are the least detectable ships, they are fast and agile, they can get in reasonable gunfights and torpedoes are a great and fun tool. It's a class that has it's players and is a good addition to the game... but it's not all sunshine and rainbows.

BBs are slow, heavy, tanky and with big guns and are visible from miles away; Cruisers have good DPM, decent armor,  variety of guns and visibilities; DDs are small and agile, with small guns and good torps, but are very fragile. Is the basic idea... but I'd argue it's harder to kill a DD, than it is to kill a Cruiser. 

They are smaller, which means less shots will hit them (even well aimed), they are fast and agile, so they can dodge, AP is practically useless against them, they can often disengage due to low surface detection and do not have citadels. You can't one shot a DD, but you can do that to a larger ship, I don't get it. I guess it's just so they don't die whenever anything shoots at them, but it doesn't mean they should be magically better at surviving, because their armor is crap and citadel just isn't a mechanic.

[DFens_666]

1. Spotter plane helps, if your ship can equip one.

See this video as example

 

 

2. WG said, playerbase cant handle it. Yes, not a joke This used to be a thing, until they reworked CVs in early 2019. Back then, you could control your hull and manage several squads. But WG thought, CVs need to be more action packed...

 

3. Well, a Cruiser being oneshotted by a BB is not fun for the Cruiser either, is it? Thats kinda the thing with PvP games: What might be fun for one party, is unfun for the others. Obviously this should be within acceptable limits. I think, most of the time being shot at by 1 Cruiser with HE is manageable, problem is, when its more than one. And then its already a problem with your positioning. Or if you have a BB shooting HE from 20km - they oversaturate the DCP-management because they tend to start a fire or 2 basicly every salvo.

 

4. DDs do have the lowest survivability tho.

Thats BB / Cruiser / CV / DD from T7-10.

DDs used to have Citadels, but it was way too easy to kill them apparently (i didnt play back then, so cant really comment on that, but i assume thats how it was).

 

But in the end, if you dont like the game, then thats just how it is. A game should be fun, if its not, then you shouldnt be afraid to walk away from it. Why be miserable? I know I know... its easier said than done, and a lot of people here want to enjoy this game, but cant anymore as they used to, because too much stuff changed (for the worse) over the past years. I include myself in that group too... And at some point, itll be too much. For the past few months i havent been playing much anyway, due to certain reasons connected to the game.

[ForlornSailor]

32 minutes ago, Piotrzeci said:

I guess it's just so they don't die whenever anything shoots at them, but it doesn't mean they should be magically better at surviving

 

DDs have the lowest survivability of all ships. Thats across nations/tiers.

[ColonelPete]

27 minutes ago, Piotrzeci said:

I tried playing WoWs and after around 350h I gave up. I by no means am an experienced player, I only got to two tier IX's, but the thing is I got discouraged from playing  any further. It's just my rant about things, probably there will be someone to tell me each of points I make is wrong, but I just want to mention why, despite liking a lot about the game, I gave up on it. 

 

I'll start with two easy to change mechanics

1. Aiming behind islands. 

Aiming is only possible into spots that are visible in a straight line from where you are aiming, which means it's not possible to aim into spots that are close behind an island. But the thing is, you can shoot there, the shells can go there due to the arcs, and if there is a visible enemy ship there, the game will default to aiming at that distance and let you shoot at them normally. However if there is no enemy ship visible the game assumes you are aiming at the island... I have no idea why. There is absolutely no benefit to shooting an island, so why doesn't it just assume you are aiming behind it and allow free movement of the aiming spot through the minimap. If there is an island in the way then it can block shots, but don't block aiming.

2. Aircraft carrier controls 

Why is there no button for "return to CV for a sec, while the planes continue flying in a straight line"? I just want to adjust course a bit, slow down or activate priority sector on my CV. Why does it require me to fully recall the squadron and keeps me stuck with minimap path making. Just let me go back into CV for a moment, while the planes are flying.

 

And two things that can't just be changed, but still ruined my fun

3. HE spammers

It just feels so tiring to be under fire from one. I can just feel my will to play draining as I am being shot by one. And since (1) stands, sometimes it's obvious where the shots come from and it's a possible spot to hit, but isn't allowed because the ship isn't technically spotted. I don't think it's just my personal feeling, but it isn't fun to fight one of them. Regardless of how strong they are, they are just annoying. A game is supposed to be fun and having something that just feels like a pain to deal with isn't the way to go.

4. (Well prepare your pitchforks) DDs

DDs are an important part of the game and there are plenty of things to like about them; they are the least detectable ships, they are fast and agile, they can get in reasonable gunfights and torpedoes are a great and fun tool. It's a class that has it's players and is a good addition to the game... but it's not all sunshine and rainbows.

BBs are slow, heavy, tanky and with big guns and are visible from miles away; Cruisers have good DPM, decent armor,  variety of guns and visibilities; DDs are small and agile, with small guns and good torps, but are very fragile. Is the basic idea... but I'd argue it's harder to kill a DD, than it is to kill a Cruiser. 

They are smaller, which means less shots will hit them (even well aimed), they are fast and agile, so they can dodge, AP is practically useless against them, they can often disengage due to low surface detection and do not have citadels. You can't one shot a DD, but you can do that to a larger ship, I don't get it. I guess it's just so they don't die whenever anything shoots at them, but it doesn't mean they should be magically better at surviving, because their armor is crap and citadel just isn't a mechanic.

Nobody forces you to advance. You can stay at the Tiers you like...

1. Some ships can. Learn which one.
2. Press "M"
3. Lean to position correctly.
4. The survival rates of DD are below CA and BB..., and yes, some ships can oneshot them; in theory, any ship can (with detonation)

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

 

I can sympathize with your points 3 and 4. While some defend the HE fire, in combination of bad team coordination on your side it becomes a game killer. DD's seem harder to kill than cruisers, at least when it comes to someone else's DD's and your own cruisers...

[DFens_666]

3 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

DD's seem harder to kill than cruisers, at least when it comes to someone else's DD's and your own cruisers...

 

A Cruiser which just shows broadside will ofc just die. A DD still needs to be spotted. That being said, a well played DD is extremely hard to kill. I dont play much DDs myself, but from my last 170 games (last year + this year) my survivability in DDs is 67%. Same time period for BBs/CAs is roughly 64-65% with slightly above 400 games each. But if i play BB, i really dont mind to die, if it helps to win. Cruisers shouldnt feel the need to sacrifice themselves, and DDs even less.

[ForlornSailor]

4 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

I can sympathize with your points 3 and 4. While some defend the HE fire, in combination of bad team coordination on your side it becomes a game killer.

 

The most annoying HE fire is the one unleashed by BBs. I had 3 BBs today spamming HE at me (Thunderer - big surprise, a Kurfürst - that seems to be a thing lately? and a Montana). bämm. 2 fires. DCP. bämm. another 2 fires. wtf. All while they kite into the map border. The thing is, its almost smart to combine such HE fire, because it WILL bring the enemy down - you cant sustain 3 BBs shooting HE at you. For the moment its fine but give them some time... Anyway, they usually lose the game because exactly this: it takes too long. They could have deleted some cruisers meanwhile or even caught another BB broadside for massive damage. Yet they are happy with their results and the game actually does reward them. Thunderer was top XP in the enemy team, I had 2 perma fires at the time we hit 1000 points with no more heals, DCP on cooldown and about 1800 health left. I was happy I didnt gave him the satisfaction of a kill :) But yes, once again: problem is the game rewarding this play. XP for fire damage [from BBs] should be reducuded. Or you lower the fire chance of BBs HE...

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

The most annoying HE fire is the one unleashed by BBs. I had 3 BBs today spamming HE at me (Thunderer - big surprise, a Kurfürst - that seems to be a thing lately? and a Montana). bämm. 2 fires. DCP. bämm. another 2 fires. wtf. All while they kite into the map border. The thing is, its almost smart to combine such HE fire, because it WILL bring the enemy down - you cant sustain 3 BBs shooting HE at you. For the moment its fine but give them some time... Anyway, they usually lose the game because exactly this: it takes too long. They could have deleted some cruisers meanwhile or even caught another BB broadside for massive damage. Yet they are happy with their results and the game actually does reward them. Thunderer was top XP in the enemy team, I had 2 perma fires at the time we hit 1000 points with no more heals, DCP on cooldown and about 1800 health left. I was happy I didnt gave him the satisfaction of a kill :) But yes, once again: problem is the game rewarding this play. XP for fire damage [from BBs] should be reducuded. Or you lower the fire chance of BBs HE...

 

Thunderer really shouldn't be wasting its potential firing HE. Having said that, I understand the temptation because dings and overpens have become so commonplace. But as you said, it is not effective use of BB main guns and places your team at jeopardy risking defeat.

[Captain_Newman]

1 hour ago, Piotrzeci said:

1. Aiming behind islands. 

 

2. Aircraft carrier controls 

 

3. HE spammers

 

4. (Well prepare your pitchforks) DDs

 

1. Use spotter plane. Otherwise you're out of luck.

 

2. Sure, because CV's don't have it too easy already.

 

3. Fighting these HE spammers effectively does require some experience - you need good positioning and you need to know how to blap them. First of all you need to position so you can go out of spotting and heal up if necessary while not being too far away to render you useless. And you also need to know how to aim to kill the open water dodging type. Today I fought a Colbert in my Bourgogne - this Colbert kept dodging at range and had no issues burning my Kremlin down to the ground without taking any damage. Then he moved and tried the same thing on me. Three of my salvos later, and he was dead. First one was overpens, the other two produced citadels and killed him. How? I'd drop off and he would start focusing on something else, so I'd wait until he would commit to a turn, and with me not being spotted before firing, he wouldn't realize in time to dodge. It's much easier to hit a target that isn't solely focused on dodging you - use the enemy psychology against them. There's other methods and it's all quite situational, but in general if it's one HE spammer you should be able to deal with him, and if you're getting focused by several at once and you can't drop off, you probably made a massive mistake in positioning.

 

4. DD's already have the lowest survivability of all classes. You're also quite wrong in that AP is useless against them. Lower than HE damage, sure, but I invite you to take a DD and parade broadside to a Stalingrad, Monty, Jean Bart, Bourgogne, etc, and see how you like the experience. Even if they all just fire AP you won't live for very long.

 

There's plenty to complain about in this game - CV's, messed up balance due to MvR, FDR and Petro spam, especially in CB, WG business practices selling gambling boxes to kids, extremely inflated premium store prices, lack of any pretence that premium ships is where it's at and that goes all the way up to t10, etc... but you failed to identify any of these things and all of your reasons are basically "these things worked against me in battles and I failed to learn how to overcome these". Yes, it's possible.

[lossi_2018]

One shooting a DD should have been in game (It kinda was for a while), just as greater flood from torping should as well. Just put a longer cool down on torps or even a finite amount of them just like it was with planes once upon a time when we all had fun

[GarrusBrutus]

1 hour ago, lossi_2018 said:

One shooting a DD should have been in game (It kinda was for a while), just as greater flood from torping should as well. Just put a longer cool down on torps or even a finite amount of them just like it was with planes once upon a time when we all had fun

Because that makes the game more enjoyable.... How exactly? 

Besides: DDs now have to deal with SAP shells, more stealth radar, and they're already the class that detonates the most. 

How is drastically nerfing them gonna do anything useful? 

[anonym_cOm3uxApUSdG]

Vor 3 Stunden, Piotrzeci sagte:

tried playing WoWs and after around 350h I gave up. I by no means am an experienced player, I only got to two tier IX's, but the thing is I got discouraged from playing  any further. It's just my rant about things, probably there will be someone to tell me each of points I make is wrong, but I just want to mention why, despite liking a lot about the game, I gave up on it. 

Hello

 

what did you expect with so few battles?

 

That you achieve the same success as players who have many thousands more battles like you and have thus gained a lot more experience.

 

If you analyze your development in connection with your successes, you will surely recognize that you "rose" too quickly and invested far too little time in "learning new things"!
And premium ships do not automatically guarantee success

 

All the problems that you mentioned had to be arranged by the others and they had to learn to master them.

 

You have wasted your 200 skirmish closed time, now you have to relearn to make up for the missed!

 

Sure, you can stop playing because you don't get the success you were hoping for!

 

But you are responsible for the failure !! This has NOTHING to do with the various inadequacies of the game.

 

It sure is not what you wanted to hear! It's just a helpful suggestion. Just think about it.

 

For now, stick with T5-T6 and stabilize your performance and learn more.

 

There are plenty of game guides and tutorials to read!

Here too: https://forum.worldofwarships.com/forum/365-game-guides-and-tutorials/

 

This is my honest opinion!

 

I could also have lied to you, blaming all of us for cheating on you out of your well-deserved success

 

but this would be a "real lie" on my part.

 

Kind regards

 

Sorry, my English is imperfect (Google Translator)

[zengaze]

For your first point, most people don't realise that there is a whackton of aim assist in this game, between aim assist and dicerolls, it's a casino, just how WG want it to be, keeps you coming back for one more spin, cause you got that big dev strike 10 games ago, doesn't matter it was the dice saying yes that did it.

 

As to CVs, it's cvs so they shouldn't be in the game.

 

HE spam is HE spam, and if you think it is easier to stay alive in a dd whilst doing what a dd should do, you don't know how to play dds. DDs are the class that assumes the most risk, good DD players know when to peace out.

 

As to the thunderer talk downstream there is a place for thunderer HE. Thunderer has god tier AP and HE, show me a smolensk and i'll ram HE down his throat. Can't count the number of smolensks i've one popped with HE. ANd if you're bow in to me in a BB then i'm going to burn the salt out of you.

 

Aside from that yes the game is crap i agree.

[lossi_2018]

31 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Because that makes the game more enjoyable.... How exactly? 

Besides: DDs now have to deal with SAP shells, more stealth radar, and they're already the class that detonates the most. 

How is drastically nerfing them gonna do anything useful? 

I was advocating perma flood, albeit poorly due to weekly intoxication i use against covid boredom, as kinda compensation for the 'realistic' dmg. I don't know about useful, it was a take upon someone else's suggestion, I will leave the logistics to you :) 

[FukushuNL]

1. It's a game mechanic. Like aiming in a smoke cloud becomes harder too, or shooting at a ship you are not targetting. I wouldn't worry about this point. It will have probably saved you too, like it did all of us. You shoukd look at it as a defencive mechanic.

2. I kinda support you on this one, but the options presented mostly do the job, albeit crudely. You can use the map to stop the ship or give course corrections and the ship already has more than enough AA at the first few attacks that you don't need priority sector. 

 

3. I also kinda agree with the HE spamming, but I really only have an issue with is Smolensk. I don't buy that positioning crap reason people give as many HE spammers keep hidden until they can do what they do best, but most CLs and DDs don't have range, so the times I get caught in an HE spam from them in a crucial moment is scarse. I don't mind the British BB line either as you don't see them that often, most of the time detected before they can wreck havoc, they squishy and they are BBs: if people get annoyed, they get focused fired while being too big and slow to get away. Nah, only Smolensk is the real issue here. You can't escape its range, it can hit you every second, making it's fire chance almost 100% and if you shoot it, you 99% of the time overpen. At least the other CLs got sturdy hulls and low range.

 

4. That someone would mention DDs as a main reason for leaving, in fhis day and age. The need for one shotting destroyers...as if DD captains already don't have it hard enough already between radar, CVs, sap, HE BBs and other DDs when having to contend caps. You do know what die first 90% of the matches, right? Hint: it's no cruiser or battleship.

 

[Azalgor]

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

But WG thought, CVs need to be more action packed...

 

Dude, really? They were made console friendly for marketing purposes, player stupididty was just a poor exuse, even thou its true.

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

Dude, really? They were made console friendly for marketing purposes, player stupididty was just a poor exuse, even thou its true.

 

Just saying what WG told us

 

22 minutes ago, FukushuNL said:

3. I also kinda agree with the HE spamming, but I really only have an issue with is Smolensk. I don't buy that positioning crap reason people give as many HE spammers keep hidden until they can do what they do best, but most CLs and DDs don't have range, so the times I get caught in an HE spam from them in a crucial moment is scarse. I don't mind the British BB line either as you don't see them that often, most of the time detected before they can wreck havoc, they squishy and they are BBs: if people get annoyed, they get focused fired while being too big and slow to get away. Nah, only Smolensk is the real issue here. You can't escape its range, it can hit you every second, making it's fire chance almost 100% and if you shoot it, you 99% of the time overpen. At least the other CLs got sturdy hulls and low range. 

 

So a Thunderer sitting at 20km with >24km range and vastly superior ballistics compared to Smolensk is no issue? Pretty much being able to set 2 fires every time it hits you? Not to mention the 12,3km concealment with Cruiser ruddershift Focusing a Thunderer in his spawn is pretty much useless, as he can just go dark since he is sitting so far back (assuming he has any brains).

Meanwhile my Smolensk game from yesterday

 

I can see that OP fire chance

[xe_N_on]

Vor 11 Stunden, Piotrzeci sagte:

DDs are an important part of the game and there are plenty of things to like about them; they are the least detectable ships, they are fast and agile, they can get in reasonable gunfights and torpedoes are a great and fun tool. It's a class that has it's players and is a good addition to the game... but it's not all sunshine and rainbows.

[...] DDs are small and agile, with small guns and good torps, but are very fragile. Is the basic idea... but I'd argue it's harder to kill a DD, than it is to kill a Cruiser. 

They are smaller, which means less shots will hit them (even well aimed), they are fast and agile, so they can dodge, AP is practically useless against them, they can often disengage due to low surface detection and do not have citadels.

As a BB your main target are not DDs. You shot them, if there is nothing else to shoot or you got an lucky opportunity. You main targets are CA/CLs and other BBs. Cruiser (and CVs) can quite reliable hit DDs. It's a team game after all.

 

SAP-Cruiser can infact oneshot DDs, without having the need for a citadel.

[Camperdown]

42 minutes ago, xe_N_on said:

As a BB your main target are not DDs. You shot them, if there is nothing else to shoot or you got an lucky opportunity. You main targets are CA/CLs and other BBs. Cruiser (and CVs) can quite reliable hit DDs. It's a team game after all.

 

SAP-Cruiser can infact oneshot DDs, without having the need for a citadel.

I think this is bad advice. If a BB has a good shot at a DD, take it. You may take off at least a quarter of its health, which is very valuable for the team.

 

[xe_N_on]

Vor 6 Minuten, Camperdown sagte:

I think this is bad advice. If a BB has a good shot at a DD, take it. You may take off at least a quarter of its health, which is very valuable for the team.

 

Therefore I wrote: "or you got an lucky opportunity". That is, e.g. if a destroyer pops 10 km right before your bow cannons. Escpacially with T8+ BBs guns becoming more accurate, there is no reason to not shoot. Even with AP. However, if there is the choise deleting a broadside cruiser or shoot at a DD, I would always go for the first.

 

I simply emphazized the fact, that most BBs are not suited to battle DDs - at least not in WoWs. There are exceptions, however ...

 

 

 

[Karasu_Hidesuke]

1 hour ago, xe_N_on said:

As a BB your main target are not DDs. You shot them, if there is nothing else to shoot or you got an lucky opportunity. You main targets are CA/CLs and other BBs. Cruiser (and CVs) can quite reliable hit DDs. It's a team game after all.

 

SAP-Cruiser can infact oneshot DDs, without having the need for a citadel.

 

33 minutes ago, Camperdown said:

I think this is bad advice. If a BB has a good shot at a DD, take it. You may take off at least a quarter of its health, which is very valuable for the team.

 

 

29 minutes ago, xe_N_on said:

Therefore I wrote: "or you got an lucky opportunity". That is, e.g. if a destroyer pops 10 km right before your bow cannons. Escpacially with T8+ BBs guns becoming more accurate, there is no reason to not shoot. Even with AP. However, if there is the choise deleting a broadside cruiser or shoot at a DD, I would always go for the first.

 

I simply emphazized the fact, that most BBs are not suited to battle DDs - at least not in WoWs. There are exceptions, however ...

 

 

 

 

All correct points IMO. I frequently 'have to' make the mistake of even going after a DD with my BB because the cruisers on my team ain't doing their job properly. I wish I could focus on enemy cruisers and BB's, but way too often I have to try and fulfill some bleeding 'Man Friday' role for the team.

[Humorpalanta]

12 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Because that makes the game more enjoyable.... How exactly? 

Besides: DDs now have to deal with SAP shells, more stealth radar, and they're already the class that detonates the most. 

How is drastically nerfing them gonna do anything useful? 

I would like to add 1 thing that people usually don't mention regarding DDs. Torpedo armament incapacitation. When your gun is knocked out it is meh. 20 sec and usable again. But when your torpedoes are your main armament and it takes them 1:30 minutes to reload and just before that somebody knocks them out so it starts counting from 1:30 again... Effin annoying. With all the HE spam and CV it is more common than ever...

[gabberworld]

5 minutes ago, Humorpalanta said:

I would like to add 1 thing that people usually don't mention regarding DDs. Torpedo armament incapacitation. When your gun is knocked out it is meh. 20 sec and usable again. But when your torpedoes are your main armament and it takes them 1:30 minutes to reload and just before that somebody knocks them out so it starts counting from 1:30 again... Effin annoying. With all the HE spam and CV it is more common than ever...

 

it can be that those slaves who reloads your torpedoes in ship go to repair the torpedo tubes as for safe work they need take torpedoes out again or they may self blow up

[Piotrzeci]

Would you guys imagine that "learn to deal with it" is not an answer to a bad mechanic. 
I know I can spam M to get a better aiming angle or use a spotter for that, but it in no way explains why it's badly designed to begin with. Especially when you shoot a spotted ship an lose visibility and without moving your crosshair at all the game suddenly decides that you were aiming at the island. There is literally no reason why it should be like that; either make it not possible always or always possible, not a weird mix where opening a minimap allows to do it or spotting a ship. That's just a terribly done mechanic. 

[xe_N_on]

Vor 11 Minuten, Piotrzeci sagte:

Would you guys imagine that "learn to deal with it" is not an answer to a bad mechanic. 
I know I can spam M to get a better aiming angle or use a spotter for that, but it in no way explains why it's badly designed to begin with. Especially when you shoot a spotted ship an lose visibility and without moving your crosshair at all the game suddenly decides that you were aiming at the island. There is literally no reason why it should be like that; either make it not possible always or always possible, not a weird mix where opening a minimap allows to do it or spotting a ship. That's just a terribly done mechanic. 

 

Protip: if you spot a ship that does peek-a-boo behind an island or smoke up: aim for it and press ctrl x. You can lock a certain position on map and even if it is behind an island and without locking a ship. This of course only works if the ship is not moving away fast, because the spot cannot be moved once set.

 

However, even you locked the spot, you will fire "blind", so be prepared to have reduced accuracy.