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Sunleader

Why not make Cruiser Secondaries higher Ranged :)

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[THESO]
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In the Game. Most Heavy Cruisers actually have Secondaries. And in Reality. The Secondary Battery of a Cruiser was Actually very Importand.

Which is not Surprising because unlike on Battleships. Where the Main Caliber was Vastly Bigger than the Secondary Battery Caliber. On Cruisers. The Main and Secondary Battery Calibers where often very close to each other.

And for many Heavy Cruisers. The Secondary Armament was actually used together with the Main Battery most of the Time.

 

In the Game however. Cruisers by Default get a Heavily Shortened Range for their Secondaries. Even when these Secondaries are the same as the ones on the Battleships.

 

In my Eyes. Cruisers should get their Secondary Range Buffed to the same Levels as Battleships.

Because for Cruisers the Secondaries should actually be an Importand Damage Source :)

As they are more likely to Fight in these Ranges in the First Place :)

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Ironically enough secondary ranges for BB's aren't historically accurate either so you may as well buff them to relevant levels for the relevant calibers, no more secondaries sharing the same range anymore.

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That would allow fun builds and we can't have that, can we? Instead we need an complete overhaul of the skill system which probably will create more problems than solve them.

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[4_0_4]
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Secondary cruisers? Why not.

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4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

In my Eyes. Cruisers should get their Secondary Range Buffed to the same Levels as Battleships, because for Cruisers the Secondaries should actually be an Importand Damage Source :)

&

3 hours ago, CptBarney said:

Ironically enough secondary ranges for BB's aren't historically accurate either so you may as well buff them to relevant levels for the relevant calibers, no more secondaries sharing the same range anymore.

 

= Use proper ranges due to calibre for all guns - main and secondary - for ALL ships in the game.

 

Or to say it different: Make Mikasa Great Again!

 

Just imagine in additon to those 4x30cm main guns she'd have 14x15.2cm guns with a range of about what? 13.5 km or so? Rename it into "Deathstar" for those T2 battles :cap_rambo:

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And what would you sacrifice for those secondaries? Because if WG is considering current CAs more or less balanced but in acceptable state I doubt they would just buff secondaries while not nefing something else.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind if some CA line or premium has improved secondaries, for example RN CAs or Siegfried, but general buffing secondaries of all CAs? Could be interesting? Sure. Does they need it? Nope.

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Flamu: Secondary Ägir is fun!

WG: Nerfhammer goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

essentially what happened last time they tried to make a BC with BB-like secondary range :cap_fainting:

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[CAIN]
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Sure, why not crapping some more on spotted DDs?

 

But then, make it - as suggested above - a module rhat goes into the concealment module slot.

It removes concealment and gives the CA BB secondary range and dispersion, and negates all dispersion buffs other modules might give.

Yeah, this could work.

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[THESO]
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6 hours ago, Deckeru_Maiku said:

&

 

= Use proper ranges due to calibre for all guns - main and secondary - for ALL ships in the game.

 

Or to say it different: Make Mikasa Great Again!

 

Just imagine in additon to those 4x30cm main guns she'd have 14x15.2cm guns with a range of about what? 13.5 km or so? Rename it into "Deathstar" for those T2 battles :cap_rambo:

 

Well. A Death Star indeed. Given it will have the Accuracy of Stromtroopers shooting at Princes Leia....

But I wont even go that far.

I merely Think Cruisers should have Equal Secondary Ranges to BBs.

 

Meaning all Ships in General should (assuming they use the Upgrades) get Secondary Ranges between 8-12km

 

5 hours ago, fumtu said:

And what would you sacrifice for those secondaries? Because if WG is considering current CAs more or less balanced but in acceptable state I doubt they would just buff secondaries while not nefing something else.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind if some CA line or premium has improved secondaries, for example RN CAs or Siegfried, but general buffing secondaries of all CAs? Could be interesting? Sure. Does they need it? Nope.

 

I doubt Secondaries with higher Range would have such a large Impact for most Cruisers.

There is a few Exceptions certainly. Especially among Supercruisers.

But in General I assume the Ships needing Rebalancing from higher Secondary Range will be Fairly Few.

 

In these few Cases Nerfs might be Possible. But will likely be fairly easily a Slight Reload Nerf or something like that to Reduce DPM for that tiny bit which the Secondaries actually Increased it.

(Because Yes. Secondaries often have Insane DPM. But with their Accuracy and Pen they often will not even Fuflfill 5% of that DPM. Exceptions being the Rare cases like Graf Zeppelin)

Ägir meanwhile could certainly use the Buff given how weak it is compared to other T9 Supercruisers.

 

5 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Flamu: Secondary Ägir is fun!

WG: Nerfhammer goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

essentially what happened last time they tried to make a BC with BB-like secondary range :cap_fainting:

 

Siegfried still has Full Range Secondaries.

 

5 hours ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

actually have a few kills with hindenburg secondary's

cruiser secondaries are a lot more accurate then battleship ones 

 

They have same Accuracy. That can be Confirmed by the Ships Data. Reason why they feel more Accurate is due to the Shorter Range. :)

For example. Hindenburg has 6km Base Range 370m Dispersion. Which of course Feels better than Grosser Kurfürst with 469m Dispersion.

But the Reason for that is. That Kurfürst has 7.7km Base Range.

If you now use the Range Skill for Secondaries on Hindenburg. To get it up to 7.2km Base Range. You are already at 440m Dispersion.

If you got it to the same 7.7km Range you would get the same 469m Dispersion :)

Likewise Kurfürst when Firing at just 6km Distance will have the 370mm Dispersion like Hindenburg.

 

 

5 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Sure, why not crapping some more on spotted DDs?

 

But then, make it - as suggested above - a module rhat goes into the concealment module slot.

It removes concealment and gives the CA BB secondary range and dispersion, and negates all dispersion buffs other modules might give.

Yeah, this could work.

 

Fallacy. 

Nobody would ever use that Module. Because the Tradeoff is Simply nowhere even close to being Worth it.

 

Pls dont Suggest to make things Useless just because you dont like them.

Potential Powercreep against DDs can be Balanced Properly where needed.

 

2 hours ago, Hades_warrior said:

Yea.. lets give a ship class with already high DPM even more DPM via secondaries.

Sounds about right :Smile_trollface:

 

Can be Fixed easily by lowering Main Battery Reload a bit.

And also would likely be an Insignificant amount unless its Close Quarters Combat. Because with around 450-500m Dispersion on 10km even if your Secondaries got like 300k DPM it would basicly come down to maybe 5k actual Damage.

And the Truth is. Barely any Cruiser has such DPM on its Secondaries.

 

The only Cruisers which got this kind of DPM are the Supercruisers. Which for most Part already have BB Range on Secondaries.

Needless to say that despite these Ranges they are usually not worth Investing into due to the low actual Damage going through.

 

So for most part this would be a really Minor Buff.

Which in General will likely not require any Rebalancing at all.

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The max range a gun can lob a shell should be (more or less as mounts do play some role in that but its a game after all) decided primarily by the gun type (caliber and barrel length) so if we have say 127/54 gun its logical that the shells fly out to a similar if not the same distance weather fired from a DD, CL or BB and when they are main guns its sort of respected, only when we get to the secondaries the gun that could lob a shell 20 km easily now has a 5 km range...

 

I guess its just one of those "balance decisions"

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8 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Flamu: Secondary Ägir is fun!

WG: Nerfhammer goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

essentially what happened last time they tried to make a BC with BB-like secondary range :cap_fainting:

Think it was the DPM on her secondaries that was too high combined with terrible guns, they could of made her work as one of the few supercruiser with decent secondaries, but for gone it instead.

There are ways of balancing it out, such as taking a module slot. Introducing new skills etc.

 

I still think that a 127mm secondary should fire out further than 100mm secondaries and same goes for 140mm and 152mm's but have different reloads and shell velocities as well. Maybe different accuracy's and fire chances as well.

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[THESO]
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11 minutes ago, SpartanRenegade said:

In that case, all DDs should get their base detectability range  lowered to 5km :Smile_coin:

 

How about we Remove that Unrealistic Rubbish alltogether

Lets just have Ships Visible on Realistic Ranges:Smile_coin:

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34 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

How about we Remove that Unrealistic Rubbish alltogether

Lets just have Ships Visible on Realistic Ranges:Smile_coin:

Man, asking for the whole "secondaries" rework is kind of strange for me. Do not get me wrong - I love cruisers and it is my class of choice. 

BUT, putting more, let's say, reality to the game would be total crap and make it unplayable (IMO). I am not sure if you are aware that f.ex. Aoba's   4x12 cm/45 10th Year Type had range up to 16.000 m :) These guns were mounted at Myôkô (x6), Furutaka (x4), Takao (x4), Akagi (x6), Kaga (x6) ... . You really want to see them in the game with that range?

Change of secondaries ranges for cruisers would make, as sbd stated, playing DDs obsolete. And would cause some more mess - f.ex. why not give BBs (which often have "secondaries" larger and more powerfull guns than cruisers main artylery) more realistic ranges also? Why not add for Scharnhorst, Bismarck, "H" class some more power comming from their 15 cm/55 (5.9") SK C/28 - ranged with 23.000m? And add f.ex. additional 10x10.5 cm/65 (4.1") SK C/33 for Bismarck with 17.700m?

Reality bites - and if you do not want it to bite current gameplay in WoWs, which is considered by some players too complicated, then, please, consider what are you asking WG about.

 

This is arcade game with naval battles just being used as an idea to make a MMO shooter. It has to be keept simplified - otherwise it would be unplayable.

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4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

In these few Cases Nerfs might be Possible. But will likely be fairly easily a Slight Reload Nerf or something like that to Reduce DPM for that tiny bit which the Secondaries actually Increased it.

 

I would never trade main gun DPM for better secondaries on CAs.

 

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

So for most part this would be a really Minor Buff.

Which in General will likely not require any Rebalancing at all.

 

It is still a buff, no matter how minor. If it is really minor that it doesn't have any impact than it is pointless. If its minor but still have impact it would require re-balancing. It is that simple, as you are not talking about buff to specific line or ships but to the whole sub-classes, in this case a CAs and SCs. 

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7 hours ago, Hades_warrior said:

Yea.. lets give a ship class with already high DPM even more DPM via secondaries.

Sounds about right :Smile_trollface:

Because cruisers are soooo op... especially suicidal ones in secondary range... :Smile_facepalm:

The only environment that would benefit secondary cruisers SOMEWHAT is co-op and operations. 

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2 hours ago, CptBarney said:

Introducing new skills

 

With the new skills you can forget having a secondary cruiser - ever.

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21 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

With the new skills you can forget having a secondary cruiser - ever.

Eh, with my skill tree branch it would of been very different. Think POE and Mechwarrior online and some other games mixed in. But simple.

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6 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Eh, with my skill tree branch it would of been very different. Think POE and Mechwarrior online and some other games mixed in. But simple.

 

Had to look at the new skills again only to make sure i didnt write BS about Cruisers not having the possibility to play with secondaries... its just so bad. I can only hope they already changed some things in there :cap_fainting:

Gonna be a fun patch at the of the year, with italian BBs and potentially the new captain skills :cap_old:

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Had to look at the new skills again only to make sure i didnt write BS about Cruisers not having the possibility to play with secondaries... its just so bad. I can only hope they already changed some things in there :cap_fainting:

Gonna be a fun patch at the of the year, with italian BBs and potentially the new captain skills :cap_old:

Can't be any worse than what AW has too offer i guess. Game is a balancing disaster as it is. Funny how they get rid of arty only to replace with troops that have mortars and a commander skill that fires a guided missile into you.

Jesus you couldn't make such idiocy up i swear to god.

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