DD Hatsuharu can't get the hang of it

[bloodlord2510]

What is it with this ship :

 

If you look at it , engine coughs. 1 shot the ship takes , engine will break down....

 

supposed to have good manoeuvrability : it seems to me that running at speed it takes ages to do a 180...

 

Guns (only 4...) : they hit hard, but in 6 battles , 5 were T8 battle, so your outgunned most of the time, their reload is just .... slow for a gunboat

 

AA is good for a T6 DD, but then again you're up against VIII CVs , you're dead if no allie close.

 

I must say in her defense : >I'm not running CE yet on captain.

 

I loved Mutsuki, but this piece a junk ...

 

Guess i need to just grind through it

 

Any tips, to use this ship ?

 

cheerio

 

 

[ColonelPete]

Without CE at Tier VI, with a DD with weak guns and low HP means you are food.

You would need to play extremly careful to counter that drawback.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, bloodlord2510 said:

slow for a gunboat 

 

Its not a gunboat - maybe that helps already

[GraySlayer]

15 minutes ago, bloodlord2510 said:

What is it with this ship :

 

If you look a it , engine coughs. 1 shot anybody takes , it'll break down....

 

supposed to have good manoeuvrability : it seems to me that running at speed it takes ages to do a 180...

 

Guns (only 4...) : they hit hard, but in 6 battles , 5 were T8 battle, so your outgunned most of the time, their reload is just .... slow for a gunboat

 

AA is good for a T6 DD, but then again you're up against VIII CVs , you're dead if no allie close.

 

I must say in her defense : >I'm not running CE yet on captain.

 

I loved Mutsuki, but this piece a junk ...

 

Guess i need to just grind through it

 

Any tips, to use this ship ?

 

cheerio

 

 

Fubuki and Hats are total beasts although I prefer Fub out of the two to be honest.

[ForlornSailor]

17 minutes ago, bloodlord2510 said:

Guns (only 4...) : they hit hard, but in 6 battles , 5 were T8 battle, so your outgunned most of the time, their reload is just .... slow for a gunboat 

 

Hatsuharu aint a gun boat. You have good concealment and pretty good torps. Stay stealthy, dont overextend - your torps have enough range in most cases. You outspot a lot of DDs you meet, so you need situational awareness and the right movements to make that work. Then you team can take care of the enemy DDs. I had a great time grinding Hatsu - 10/10 would do again.

[GarrusBrutus]

Revisited the hatsuharu after a few years and I still hate it. 

The ship is so reliant on enemy lineup and them being straight lining pepegas.

I prefer gunboat DDs or hybrids because then you can do *stuff* regardless of what matchmaking throws at you. 

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

The ship is so reliant on enemy lineup and them being straight lining pepegas.

 

Couldnt agree more, i still vividly remember playing both Hatsu and Fubuki... with one ship, i got all the devstrikes because enemies kept eating all torps, while with the other, they dodged permanently. You can guess which one

 

[Execute0rder66]

This ship can make you feel like it is overpowered if you play it to its strengths which are concealment and torps. Guns and AA are for secondary use. Though, like every other ship in the game it suffers from being low tier in games (especially in CV games).

[ColonelPete]

She is the strongest Tier VI silver DD:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/pastrecords/20200926/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

But as any ship, she cannot win everything.

Spoiler

 

[OldPappy]

As stated above, its a torp boat with good concealment. It needs to be played with at least a 10 pt cpt to get CE. Torps are good and fast reloading. The guns pack a surprising punch. 
It lacks reaload and traverse to be a gun boat. 
But its a very underestimated dd. The number of times you catch a red dd that is careless is surprising.  The enemy often just seem to forget you are there. 
With a determined cv in the game however.....

[lossi_2018]

I have no other DD close to the WR of Hatsu (64%). I haven't played it in ages but it was easy to play then. Cant remember what I liked about it but it must have been good at something haha ;) 

[Migantium_Mashum]

She has 10km Torpedoes with a fast reload that have a maximum potential damage of over 16,000 and she boasts 5.8km concealment... she isn't a brawler by any means and she is a slow turner compared to others...

But, she is by no means a push over.

 

My advice would be get used to her in CooP first or the Training room, learn the torp angles and turn angles when wishing to avoid detection..

 

Don't lose heart because she is really a good DD for Tier VI... but as has been said before nothing less than a 10 point captain is essential..

 

 

[Ronchabale]

2 hours ago, bloodlord2510 said:

What is it with this ship :

 

If you look at it , engine coughs. 1 shot the ship takes , engine will break down....

 

supposed to have good manoeuvrability : it seems to me that running at speed it takes ages to do a 180...

 

Guns (only 4...) : they hit hard, but in 6 battles , 5 were T8 battle, so your outgunned most of the time, their reload is just .... slow for a gunboat

 

AA is good for a T6 DD, but then again you're up against VIII CVs , you're dead if no allie close.

 

I must say in her defense : >I'm not running CE yet on captain.

 

I loved Mutsuki, but this piece a junk ...

 

Guess i need to just grind through it

 

Any tips, to use this ship ?

 

cheerio

 

 

I dunno, CE is a no brainer you must use your excellent concealment.  RPF is useful (so as not to get into gunfights/detected)

Do you have Last stand ?

Rudder shift is also a useful uppgrade 

AA is better than most but still useless (better leave it off until you get spotted and turn off as soon as he goes away)

Somehow I have 7% better winrate in Hatsuharu than I have in Fubuki

(that is with 228 battles in in Fubuki and 218 in Hatsuharu)

When you get to tier 8 Akizuki all your grinding begins to pay off

[Verblonde]

2 hours ago, bloodlord2510 said:

Any tips, to use this ship ?

First of all, you aren't a gunboat; even though it's on what is often referred to as the gunboat line, you don't get proper dakka until T8. Consequently, you need to build and play the thing more or less like the torp line i.e. it's all about sneaking around (AA off unless/until spotted), spotting, and the bulk of your damage will come from torps; that's not to say you shouldn't use your guns, but pick your spots, such that blowing your stealth doesn't get you sunk by return fire.

 

Your ship build should probably look something like this:

 

 

(although a lot of folk will take engine protection in slot 2; I don't because of the LS captain skill)

 

You *need* a ten point captain (at least) to avoid being seriously gimped; the first ten points should look like this:

 

 

This is what is sometimes referred to as the 'standard' DD build, and it's a pretty safe bet for almost everything, or at least it is until the rework (although, based on what's been released so far, it's likely to remain pretty similar afterwards too).

 

If you've done that, the approach is much the same as that for the IJN DDs that you've already played:

• Surface detection distance should be 5.8 km (assuming CE and cammo on the ship); that's not at all bad for the tier - for comparison, Fubuki clocks in at 6.1 km.
• You have 10 km torps, running at a reasonable 62 kts (assuming the above build); that's not bad, but unless you're facing radar don't just stand off and spam torps - use your concealment to get closer as that gives your targets less time to spot/evade your torps.
• Learn the 'worst/scariest case' detection distances of everything you'll face, so you know to what degree you can leverage your stealth (several IJN DDs in your tier spread clock in at 5.4 km, and there are a couple of Brits at 5.5 km to know about too), and as a related note, do the equivalent for radar (until you've learned the detail, assume 12 km for Russians, 10 km for everyone else; although that's wildly inaccurate, it errs on the side of caution, although you may miss opportunities e.g. you're wasting 1.5 km, as it were, if you're working on 10 km radar range for something like an Atlanta, or more for a radar DD like Orkan).
• Try and avoid planes as much as possible (although your AA is less dreadful than Fubuki, it's still not enough to rely on); your aim is to avoid being spotted as much as you can. If/when a CV does acquire you, remember sector reinforcement, and try and keep an island between you and the opposing surface ships - it's normally surface fire that will do the real damage (unless you do something dumb). That said, if you do meet a competent CV player, you're pretty much dead regardless, so - in those cases - roll your eyes and move on to the next battle (the best you can hope for is for the good CV player to burn some time sinking you).
• Don't cap too early (regardless of what people tell you in chat); it's generally a far better plan to wait until the worst threats to you have been thinned out - F3 on things you need killed by your allies (usually radars and gunboat DDs in particular); you never know, someone might even shoot them (although you're much more likely to be in luck in competitive modes). When you do try and cap, remember that as soon as the cap starts to tick the opposition know roughly where you are, so always have an escape plan (ideally involving hard cover).
• Keep a close eye on your mini-map; you need to keep aware of where all your allies are (have they lemminged; are the BBs sniping from the back line where they can't hit anything; can anyone support you - all that sort of stuff), where your known opponents are, and - at least as importantly - what's missing (especially if they're a major threat like radars or DD hunters of any sort).
• Don't rely 100% on your smoke, and definitely don't sit still in it (most DD mains will have lost count how many kills they've got just by lobbing speculative torps into smoke screens); it's great for breaking LoS and screening allies, but radar can make it actively work against you (they see you, but not vice versa), and - similarly - DDs hiding in smoke are the sort of thing that hydro/radar DDs live for (T-61 at your tier is monstrous at this kind of thing, for example), not to mention similarly equipped larger ships.

There's more, of course, but that's a reasonable starter-for-ten...

 

 

[Captain_Newman]

4 hours ago, bloodlord2510 said:

What is it with this ship :

 

If you look at it , engine coughs. 1 shot the ship takes , engine will break down....

 

This is true for most DD's. Run the engine room protection module. If it's still happening excessively, consider using PM. I didn't find this to be a huge issue, so I just ran priority target instead which is also quite useful. Depends on playstyle. I do hope you're running last stand though... and when we're talking about captain skills, you really do need that CE, not running it is a big part of the problem, you should have a much better experience with full stealth on her, or any IJN DD.

 

4 hours ago, bloodlord2510 said:

supposed to have good manoeuvrability : it seems to me that running at speed it takes ages to do a 180...

 Are you sure you're running the improved hull? All B hulls get improved rudder shift, among other things. I've never had an issue with this boat's turning, tbh.

 

4 hours ago, bloodlord2510 said:

Guns (only 4...) : they hit hard, but in 6 battles , 5 were T8 battle, so your outgunned most of the time, their reload is just .... slow for a gunboat

That is quite unlucky MM - usually it's t7 that is bottom tier most of the time these days, I found t6 ends up being top or mid tier quite often. Hopefully your luck there improves as you keep playing her. As others have said, it's not a gunboat, but the guns do have good alpha, meaning if you use them well they're fairly effective, if situational. Glad you're not forgetting they exist though, too many IJN torpboat players do that. However, IJN's first gunboat is the Akizuki, so if you're grinding through to the Harugumo you need to play them as torpboats up to and including the Shiratsuyu. After that it's dakka time.

 

4 hours ago, bloodlord2510 said:

AA is good for a T6 DD, but then again you're up against VIII CVs , you're dead if no allie close.

No t6 DD handles CV's all that well. It's not the most complained about class for no reason... Honestly, on this line, forget the AA exists and keep it off unless there's no way for you to get unspotted. Sailing with AA off and AA detection circles enabled on the minimap (and not wasting smokes but knowing how and when to use them) is going to keep you much safer than that AA.

 

4 hours ago, bloodlord2510 said:

I loved Mutsuki, but this piece a junk ...

Once you figure her out, the Hatsu is a much better boat than Mutsucky.

 

 

Overall, Hatsu is pretty good, I really liked this boat which surprised me the first time I played her as I kind of expected her to suck. I had a repeat experience recently (regrinding the line manually) and again, had a great time in her. You have to use her stealth and torps to the max, and strategically use her guns (she works far better setting up ambushes than she does  reacting to being attacked, if you are attacked most of the time you don't want to take the fight but instead run, go dark, and reengage on your own terms).

 

I can see she's your first t6 DD on this account (looks a bit like a reroll to me, but perhaps I'm mistaken), so could it be it's not the Hatsu in particular but the fact this is the first time you've had to deal with t8 matches in a DD, so you're going against radars and such? And again, not running CE is just helping CV's spot you easier. If you don't have elite xp to to get your captain to 10, I seem to recall some operations gave 10 point captains as rewards - if you haven't received them already, see if one gives you a 10pt IJN captain, that's more than enough for a decent base build (PT or PM, LS, SE, CE).

 

[Ronchabale]

16 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

 

This is true for most DD's. Run the engine room protection module. If it's still happening excessively, consider using PM. I didn't find this to be a huge issue, so I just ran priority target instead which is also quite useful. Depends on playstyle. I do hope you're running last stand though...

Yeah for sure the protection module but I always use PM and skip the PT, find that if I am spotted and not behind some island pretty much everyone is shooting at me anyway (at least they should be)

To me its a wasted point if it isnt the last one available

 

Survivability expert is also a must have skill (2100 extra HP )

 

 

This is my Hatsu

[Captain_Newman]

2 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

Yeah for sure the protection module but I always use PM and skip the PT, find that if I am spotted and not behind some island pretty much everyone is shooting at me anyway (at least they should be)

To me its a wasted point if it isnt the last one available

 

I used to think this way, but I came around. It's not just about knowing how many are targeting you; indeed, if you get spotted as a DD usually anyone who can shoot at you, will. PT, however, gives you additional information if you know how to "read between the lines", sort of; it can tell you when someone is torping you (arguably more useful on BB's, but I do often find this info useful when fighting another DD), and at the beginning of matches, it can tell you how hard the enemy has reinforced that flank before most of it has been spotted (you get spotted either by the enemy DD, radar, or planes, there's a difference to you being targeted by 3 or 6 people). When you combine this information with the enemy lineup and experience, you can usually already tell where their certain key ships probably are (radars, most of all) and play accordingly. It's way more than just knowing how many are trying to kill you at any particular time.

[Ronchabale]

3 minutes ago, Captain_Newman said:

it can tell you how hard the enemy has reinforced that flank before most of it has been spotted (you get spotted either by the enemy DD, radar, or planes, there's a difference to you being targeted by 3 or 6 people). When you combine this information with the enemy lineup and experience, you can usually already tell where their certain key ships probably are (radars, most of all) and play accordingly. It's way more than just knowing how many are trying to kill you at any particular time.

Hmm.. 

Never thought of that, obviously good info tho, yeah I will try that when I get around to it

[Verblonde]

35 minutes ago, Ronchabale said:

I will try that when I get around to it

It's worthwhile; like @Captain_Newman I used to always take PM as my first one pointer, but switched to PT once I worked out that - for me anyway - the extra information was resulting in my reducing getting scragged more effectively than a reduced chance of getting stuff shot off was. That said, I try and take both if I can, but the first pick is always PT these days (on DDs anyway).

 

BTW as things stand with the rework, it looks like we'll all be going back to PM (or whatever it's called in the new version) as PT moves to being a 2 pointer, and LS is more essential than the latter (IMO).

[lafeel]

Really did not enjoy Hatsu personally, but she's decent practice for the Shira at least, as she shares most of her (few) strong points, and (more) flaws.

[Ronchabale]

I used to play PT (cos CC:s recommended it) but swapped to PM and found I did way better with it

However taking into account the :

 

" it can tell you how hard the enemy has reinforced that flank before most of it has been spotted (you get spotted either by the enemy DD, radar, or planes, there's a difference to you being targeted by 3 or 6 people). When you combine this information with the enemy lineup and experience, you can usually already tell where their certain key ships probably are (radars, most of all) and play accordingly. It's way more than just knowing how many are trying to kill you at any particular time " 

 

I may be on a different level now and possibly make more use of PT so I will be giving it a try

 

[Perekotypole]

Vor 8 Stunden, bloodlord2510 sagte:

Any tips, to use this ship ?

as beginner Hatsu captain you have few things to learn first. 

 

1) don't sail at full speed in risky waters, like near caps. At start if there's no CV you should rush to the cap and then drop speed to 3/4 or half and sail left or right, so you don't get caught nose in to enemy DD if he rushes you. It's much harder to avoid torps if you are going full speed as well. Then as soon as you spot enemy DD just turn out and keep him spotted while remaining concealed.

 

2) don't sit in own smoke. Smoke can be used to escape enemy DDs, but if you do step 1 properly, and don't sail full speed nose in to enemies, you shouldn't get caught by other DDs in a first place. Smoke is mostly for evading CVs. That's why never share smoke if there's CV in match. And if you are forced to hide in smoke, never sit motionless, move at least at quarter speed, otherwise you not gonna have enough acceleration to evade torps. 

 

3) Hatsu guns are OK, if you have to finish off enemy DD and you usually get the first shot cause of your better CE. But generally you don't want to chase other DDs. It's much better to be chased. It's much easier to hit ship moving towards you then away from you, also easier for your team to hit your opponent. If you get into knife-fight situation with other DDs, keep at least one set of torpedoes for when you are 3km away. If you lauch all your torps too soon enemy DD gonna evade them and then rush and torp you. 

 

4) turn off AA guns. Button "P". You turn on AA only when planes are already above you and turn off them when planes are 3km away. Don't make it easier for CV to strike you.

 

5) don't sail alone, get killed and start crying your team doesn't help you. If you go alone, it's yolo and it's your fault for dieing.

[Inappropriate_noob]

Hmm some interesting stuff here, I am grinding this ship on my alt and well nowhere near a 10 point captain yet, but just nor I think i sun ka DD with a torp before getting done over, lol, by colliding with a team mate of all things

[zengaze]

5 hours ago, Verblonde said:

It's worthwhile; like @Captain_Newman I used to always take PM as my first one pointer, but switched to PT once I worked out that - for me anyway - the extra information was resulting in my reducing getting scragged more effectively than a reduced chance of getting stuff shot off was. That said, I try and take both if I can, but the first pick is always PT these days (on DDs anyway).

 

BTW as things stand with the rework, it looks like we'll all be going back to PM (or whatever it's called in the new version) as PT moves to being a 2 pointer, and LS is more essential than the latter (IMO).

Yeah for me it's a tossup between the 2, saying that i went from a dd main to not playing the game at all after the rework, so i haven't played much of the class in a while. For me hybrids were the best game in town, concentrating on nuking the opposing DD in an opening knife fight, flanks tend to domino roll once they see their dd down, weird psychology responsible for a lot of needless losses. so i tend towards PM.

 

Nowadays, just bring a cruiser.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Dude, on Tier VI, you are getting 70% CV battles, where you're food anyway, no matter what you do, as long as the CV has at least minimal skills.

This is not a good time to start the game and especially not playing DDs, except for the high tier European ones.

Just stick to CVs as much as possible and use those to grief together enough Free XP to unlock Tier XI ships. That's where the CV ratio gets almost bearable and some ships almost get something resembling a counterplay option at least against poor CV players.

If that's too boring for you, maybe look for a different game.