DD Shinonome - WAHT THE HELL ? !

[NiKuTa]

I finish campaign for DD Shinonome. What I can say after few battles. This destroyer is a crap.

1. No AA like kamikaze but kamikaze is on tier V. Compared to fubuki or shira is pointless, have some AA and you have ability to protect yourself.

2. Torpedoes are worst than on kamikaze R. similar DMG (+400 dmg more), range 8km ( kamikaze 7),  faster kamikaze torps, much more slower reading times. So what that Shinonome has 9 torps. In my opinion kamikaze R is much more better as a torp boat. Fukuki is better too. similar realoding times, 10 km range, much more better DMG (+2k DMG), lower spotting range.

3. Camouflage like on fubuki class but lower torps range make you much more easy to spot - mostly by planes.

4. Speed and  maneuverability Kamikaze R is faster, with much more better agility. Compare fubuki to  Shinonome is similar or even worts. And why Fubuki (including Shinonome) class still have 36 knots not 39 like in RL. I have CA/CL which have better agility than Shinonome.

5. Guns not exist like in all jap destroyers. low rate of fire, rotate of turrets not exist. In WoWs you win battles by rof of guns, Jap DD  don't have it.  Shinonome is worse in guns than kamikaze R or all jap DD VI tier.

 

Now I know why I don't see this DD in battles. It is a promo ship but no one use it. Fubuki or Shiratsu are much more better and are on the same tier.

This piss me off a lot. I wasn't know what and how good this DD will be when I start campaign. I suspect that, it will be similar to fubuki, but this ship is a crap. Campaign force you to use ships which you don't like, playing on tiers which you don't like and this is a reward - CRAP SHIP ??!! 

Playing on ship is pointless, I play few battles,  and 2 of them was against 2 x CV so ...- no żesz ku... mac !! - the is what i can say.

[Shiplife]

Před 1 minutou NiKuTa řekl/a:

In my opinion kamikaze R is much more better as a torp boat.

Kamikaze R is the best torp boat tier for tier in the game, right?
That's why it was removed.

The torpedo salvo is supposed to be the strength of Shinonome, along with decent alpha salvo from guns.

I don't think the ship is that bad.

[The_Pillager]

Dude, @NiKuTa what are you talking about .... ?

 

You just cannot compare any actual DD with the Kamikaze sisters (Kamikaze, Kamikaze R, Fujin), not in any point at all.

The Kamikazes are so broken they were removed from game long time ago.

Their torpedoes are to powerful, too fast and the concealment is just broken for the tier.

So your rant is really pointless I have to say.

 

You get a free trainig torpedo boat with a lot of potential. What more do you want ?

You cannot have another Kamikaze at T6, that would be ridiculous.

 

[NiKuTa]

2 minutes ago, Shiplife said:

Kamikaze R is the best torp boat tier for tier in the game, right?
That's why it was removed.

The torpedo salvo is supposed to be the strength of Shinonome, along with decent alpha salvo from guns.

I don't think the ship is that bad.

 

On DD like on CA/CL alfa salvo is not important. Ship with high ROF are much more better, continuous dmg on enemy ship, fire up it, damage enemy's equipment, turrets.

In alfa savlo if you hit you maybe do a 2-3 k dmg but reloading 10 sec. In this time you will be hit by enemy DD few times with much more DMG, which will damage or destroy few turrets, make some fires etc.

 

That why I almost never use guns on Jap DD.

[Europizza]

It's actually a pretty decent performing ship, not only for me but for the 50% and above Shinonome players. Second in avg. frags, damage and winrate. Last in avg. planes killed. It's been a while since I played that puppy so I can't really help you understand iot better. Maybe someone else here can?

 

[NiKuTa]

3 minutes ago, The_Pillager said:

Dude, @NiKuTa what are you talking about .... ?

 

You just cannot compare any actual DD with the Kamikaze sisters (Kamikaze, Kamikaze R, Fujin), not in any point at all.

The Kamikazes are so broken they were removed from game long time ago.

Their torpedoes are to powerful, too fast and the concealment is just broken for the tier.

So your rant is really pointless I have to say.

 

You get a free trainig torpedo boat with a lot of potential. What more do you want ?

You cannot have another Kamikaze at T6, that would be ridiculous.

 

 

So that why I compare DD Shinonome to kamkize and FUBUKI ( DD tier VI)

[Europizza]

3 minutes ago, NiKuTa said:

 

On DD like on CA/CL alfa salvo is not important. Ship with high ROF are much more better, continuous dmg on enemy ship, fire up it, damage enemy's equipment, turrets.

In alfa savlo if you hit you maybe do a 2-3 k dmg but reloading 10 sec. In this time you will be hit by enemy DD few times with much more DMG, which will damage or destroy few turrets, make some fires etc.

 

That why I almost never use guns on Jap DD.

Which is wasted potential, because especially when kiting away, the alpha can really hurt the ones chasing you. This is even more so on DD's with two aft turrets like the Asasshio. You got to learn to dodge incoming fire though. Guess that is one tip I have for you: learn to kite and use your guns. They are pretty good.

[Shiplife]

Před 1 minutou NiKuTa řekl/a:

 

On DD like on CA/CL alfa salvo is not important. Ship with high ROF are much more better, continuous dmg on enemy ship, fire up it, damage enemy's equipment, turrets.

In alfa savlo if you hit you maybe do a 2-3 k dmg but reloading 10 sec. In this time you will be hit by enemy DD few times with much more DMG, which will damage or destroy few turrets, make some fires etc.

 

That why I almost never use guns on Jap DD.

Yeah I get what you mean. Tha alpha strike can be useful too in some situations. Like if you have the time to fire only one salvo (before you or enemy sail behind rocks), or if you need to finish low HP target (DD vs DD).
I'm not arguing it's the best tier 6 DD, but it's not as weaksauce as you say it is, in my opinion.

[Yedwy]

16 minutes ago, NiKuTa said:

I finish campaign for DD Shinonome. What I can say after few battles. This destroyer is a crap.

Well now you know why she is free in a permanet campaign... ^^

[Riggerby]

I see your point mate, But its very hard to compare tech tree ships to premiums that were removed for being to overpowered.

 

For example, There is absolutely no reason to play an Edinburgh over a Belfast. This say more about Belfast, and in your case Kamikaze being OP then it does about Edin / Shinon being UP. 

[Panocek]

17 minutes ago, NiKuTa said:

This destroyer is a crap.

It never was supposed to be good in first place

 

7 minutes ago, The_Pillager said:

The Kamikazes are so broken they were removed from game long time ago.

Back in the day Kamikaze sisters were considered inferior clones of old Isokaze and Minekaze, which carried the same torps. Silver ships got nerfhammered, Kamis remained and got "mythical" status.

[SpartanRenegade]

Shinonome is the BEST torp bote I have played. It's an ideal DD in good hands, you rely on stealth and torps to carry out deadly surgical strikes on thicc juicy BBs but don't expect her to perform well in close quarters because she's not a knife-fighter like her French counterparts.

[Yedwy]

5 minutes ago, Riggerby said:

There is absolutely no reason to play an Edinburgh over a Belfast. This say more about Belfast, and in your case Kamikaze being OP then it does about Edin / Shinon being UP. 

There is...

Edin is T8, she has torps and heal

Even Fiji that is T7 tree ship still has heal and torps (albeit lacking the HE shells option and broken Radar/Hydro/Smoke combo)

 

However Fubi is a better ship overall esp in torp dept and even Hachu is much better choice then Shino for overall use these days, however Icarus is IMO first choice in T6 silver like for that kind of role even with shorter torps...

[Capra76]

Build it for guns, exploit stealth to engage on your terms and get the first strike in and the ballistics and gun layout whilst kiting away and I think she'd be a handful for most T7s.

 

Add in some of the strongest torpedoes for the tier and you have a very capable all-rounder.

 

And remember, being a mid-tier premium, you should have a significant captain advantage over most other players at the tier.

[Yedwy]

2 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Add in some of the strongest torpedoes for the tier and you have a very capable all-rounder.

My bigfest beef with Shino is she feels so clumsy esp when you need to hit a pushing BB 1.5km of window is really not much if some 25+ kt stuff is steaming your way...

[NiKuTa]

18 minutes ago, Europizza said:

It's actually a pretty decent performing ship, not only for me but for the 50% and above shinonome players. Second in avg. frags, damage and winrate. LAst in avg. planes killed. It's been a while since I played that puppy so I can't really help you understand iot better. Maybe someone else here can?

 

 

How I love this kind of excel tables. Are this official stats from wargaming side? And compare promo ships which normal ships in this kind of table is pointless. Normal ship anyone can have, promo ships you have to buy, win, collect in campaign like this DD. not everyone have it so.

[ColonelPete]

34 minutes ago, NiKuTa said:

I finish campaign for DD Shinonome. What I can say after few battles. This destroyer is a crap.

1. No AA like kamikaze but kamikaze is on tier V. Compared to fubuki or shira is pointless, have some AA and you have ability to protect yourself.

2. Torpedoes are worst than on kamikaze R. similar DMG (+400 dmg more), range 8km ( kamikaze 7),  faster kamikaze torps, much more slower reading times. So what that Shinonome has 9 torps. In my opinion kamikaze R is much more better as a torp boat. Fukuki is better too. similar realoding times, 10 km range, much more better DMG (+2k DMG), lower spotting range.

3. Camouflage like on fubuki class but lower torps range make you much more easy to spot - mostly by planes.

4. Speed and  maneuverability Kamikaze R is faster, with much more better agility. Compare fubuki to  Shinonome is similar or even worts. And why Fubuki (including Shinonome) class still have 36 knots not 39 like in RL. I have CA/CL which have better agility than Shinonome.

5. Guns not exist like in all jap destroyers. low rate of fire, rotate of turrets not exist. In WoWs you win battles by rof of guns, Jap DD  don't have it.  Shinonome is worse in guns than kamikaze R or all jap DD VI tier.

 

Now I know why I don't see this DD in battles. It is a promo ship but no one use it. Fubuki or Shiratsu are much more better and are on the same tier.

This piss me off a lot.

1. DD are rarely protected by AA, that is not an issue
2. Shinome torps can cover more area and are more dangerous to higher Tier ships, yes, DPM-wise they are slightly worse
3. plane spotting is not a huge difference
4. higher Tier DD are usually less nimble as they grow in size
5. the gunpower on Shino is nearly double of Kamikaze...

And this is how good Shinonome is:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200926/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

 

[Allied_Winter]

4 minutes ago, NiKuTa said:

Are this official stats from wargaming side?

They are generated using the official WG API ... so yes: WG has these stats (and more). And they do see that in the last quarter, Shinonome had an avg. WR of 54.86% over 10k players in 45k battles (that'd include you).

 

 

In short: Shinonome has her strengths and her weaknesses. Sounds like a balanced ship to me. Unlike the OP (and thus removed) ships you mentioned. For comparision: The Kamikaze you cited had an avg. WR of 64% (!) in the last quarter over 1558 players in 12k battles ... so yeah ... buffing Shino to Kamikaze levels is highly unlikely.

[NiKuTa]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

1. DD are rarely protected by AA, that is not an issue
2. Shinome torps can cover more area and are more dangerous to higher Tier ships, yes, DPM-wise they are slightly worse
3. plane spotting is not a huge difference
4. higher Tier DD are usually less nimble as they grow in size
5. the gunpower on Shino is nearly double of Kamikaze...

And this is how good Shinonome is:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200926/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

 

Again. Are this excel table from official wargaming stats ?

 

I see that is ganareted os some WG API. Can you give me some www side with this stats ?

[Allied_Winter]

3 minutes ago, NiKuTa said:

Can you give me some www side with this stats ?

ColonelPete did. You can use this and compare it e.g. with your own stats, found here:

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/529894393-Allied_Winter/!/pvp/overview/

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, NiKuTa said:

Again. Are this excel table from official wargaming stats ?

 

I see that is ganareted os some WG API. Can you give me some www side with this stats ?

The data comes from the WG server. That is what the API is for.

[NiKuTa]

1 minute ago, Allied_Winter said:

ColonelPete did. You can use this and compare it e.g. with your own stats, found here:

 

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/community/accounts/529894393-Allied_Winter/!/pvp/overview/

 

THx. but I was thinking about difference side which create stats based on WG API

[Allied_Winter]

Just now, NiKuTa said:

 

THx. but I was thinking about difference side which create stats based on WG API

You mean like this?

 

https://wows-numbers.com/

 

Just make sure to select the region you're interested in.

[Captain_Newman]

1 hour ago, NiKuTa said:

 1. No AA like kamikaze but kamikaze is on tier V. Compared to fubuki or shira is pointless, have some AA and you have ability to protect yourself.

 

I had to stop and gasp for air, I was laughing so hard at this. Then I realized you are actually correct! Kami has like, double the AA rating - what a beast,  a scourge of all things flying, an AA powerhouse...

 

Then I laughed some more as neither is anywhere close enough to be able to defend yourself, you're lucky if you can shoot down a single fighter, let alone a bomber in a battle. Just forget the AA exists on these boats and turn it off, all it does is get you spotted early.

 

As for the rest, Shinonome is a very good boat. You're comparing her to one of the most broken DD's in the game (tier for tier), but she's still very strong. I'd agree that tier for tier the Kami is stronger (which is why she's no longer available while Shinonome has been available as a free reward for years now).

 

As for the guns, Kami has 4 120mm barrels with a 10s reload,  2000 HE damage per shell, 8.7km range.

Shinonome has 6 127mm barrels with a 9s reload, 2150 HE damage per shell, 9km range.

 

So, Kami can output a maximum of 8000 HE damage every 10s at a slightly shorter range, while the Shino can do 12900 every 9s. Oh, and Shinonome's fire chance is 1% higher. By every available metric Shinonome's guns are much better, so I'm really not sure what you're on about, in a pure gun fight the Shinonome eats a Kami for breakfast as long as she can avoid torps and aim.

 

 

 

[Jethro_Grey]

"Shinonome is crap". I see.

 

What a way to start the day in WoWS.