Is every TX battleship with sub-457 caliber underpowered now

[Itwastuesday]

Not that there are many. Having a "heavy broadside" seems like such a cornercase thing compared to always applicable overmatch. 

[Origin47]

Yes, below 431mm to be more precise. Being able to overmatch 30mm plating is very useful. 

[ColonelPete]

No.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200926/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

[Yedwy]

@OP 

 

Well basically everything below Republics guns is kinda pointless TBH as you have clear advantages when using those big guns vs cruisers and to a degree even BBs and you have little or no drawbacks...

 

With possible exception of Conqueror (thermonuclear HE), Slava (hyper accurate) and Burgogne (reload booster and speedboost)

[Zieten]

For competitive? Probably yes

[Captain_Newman]

Yea, totally underpowered

 

 

[VeryHonarbrah]

i think weak is a better term, but i dont think everything has to be super strong? Curry is under powered in my opinion, but the rest have gimmicks that kinda make up for it

[TeaAndTorps]

Underpowered? Probably not.

 

Is the 457 spam tedious and unimaginative of WG, and contributing to the endless BB plague? Absolutely.

[Nibenay78]

Montana needs a buff. Randomly chosen ship from me!

[Itwastuesday]

Well those stats ColonelPete posted tell a sad story where the wurst and montana are concerned. What's really suprising to me is the low performance of Yamato, the overmatchiest of tech tree battleships. I think it's great and I find the wurst garbage. What's up with that?

[DFens_666]

No, not really.

Which Cruisers are actually an issue? Open water CAs like Hindenburg/Henri/Zao/Yoshino/Venezia and DM. DM probably less of an issue, due to its more static bow-on island gameplay, which means Bow can be targeted. Leaves the others. Do you want to shoot one of those, which is properly angled fighting you from >16km or more? Usually not, as its pointless (well except Yoshino due to its size maybe). Even with overmatch, you might not hit at all, or chip them for a few k. Anyway, they can always disengage, only to target you again when you turned your turrets elsewhere.

Yes, occasionally at the end of the game, this might be an issue, but you can still always resort to shooting HE, and most of those BBs actually have 12 barrels, except Slava. Or you might even try to hit the bow/stern.

 

CLs have less armor, so they are no issue

Russian tanks have 25 or 50mm, which means overmatch for all, or no overmatch for anyone.

And its irrelevant for non-TX Cruisers, as they dont have 30mm plating.

[VeryHonarbrah]

2 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Well those stats ColonelPete posted tell a sad story where the wurst and montana are concerned. What's really suprising to me is the low performance of Yamato, the overmatchiest of tech tree battleships. I think it's great and I find the wurst garbage. What's up with that?

to put it simply its most likely due to the massive amount of yamatos around due to its age, in general bringing down the level of play compared to a newer, not as historical ship that is potentially not meta as much

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Itwastuesday said:

Well those stats ColonelPete posted tell a sad story where the wurst and montana are concerned. What's really suprising to me is the low performance of Yamato, the overmatchiest of tech tree battleships. I think it's great and I find the wurst garbage. What's up with that?

 

Some people are attached to certain ships, and the oldest are those 3. Incidently, they are often below average players, dragging the stats down. Good players tend to play new ships asap, even if its only to try them out and see how they work.

Yamato is my 2nd best TX BB after Bourgogne, definetely not weak in my book. But it does require some knowledge, more than before. You need proper angling and know where to aim. F.e. shooting a Kremlin might not be very smart, unless you can hit the upper bow, but shooting a Repu can always yield nice damage.

I even think GK has its role, i like it more for div play than, lets say, Monty. Hydro and no citadel is a good thing when you need to push, and you have teammates around you profiting from you taking the heat and help you kill those enemies faster than they kill you.

[Panocek]

When you have broadsides to shoot at, smaller guns can work just fine. When you don't have... load skill rounds known as HE?

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

to put it simply its most likely due to the massive amount of yamatos around due to its age, in general bringing down the level of play compared to a newer, not as historical ship that is potentially not meta as much

There are more Kurfuersts...

[Itwastuesday]

34 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

No, not really.

Which Cruisers are actually an issue? Open water CAs like Hindenburg/Henri/Zao/Yoshino/Venezia and DM. DM probably less of an issue, due to its more static bow-on island gameplay, which means Bow can be targeted. Leaves the others. Do you want to shoot one of those, which is properly angled fighting you from >16km or more? Usually not, as its pointless (well except Yoshino due to its size maybe). Even with overmatch, you might not hit at all, or chip them for a few k. Anyway, they can always disengage, only to target you again when you turned your turrets elsewhere.

Usually yes, shooting at the Thunderer that's over 20km away feels even more sad.

[GulvkluderGuld]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

No.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200926/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

Uhm, according to that: Yes?

Disregarding a certain steel ship and a very new ship, every ship in the top has 457 mm.

[ColonelPete]

29 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Uhm, according to that: Yes?

Disregarding a certain steel ship and a very new ship, every ship in the top has 457 mm.

Yes, when one ignores all counter arguments, one is right...

[anonym_WHY4JO92xZKJ]

1 hour ago, Itwastuesday said:

Well those stats ColonelPete posted tell a sad story where the wurst and montana are concerned. What's really suprising to me is the low performance of Yamato, the overmatchiest of tech tree battleships. I think it's great and I find the wurst garbage. What's up with that?

Yamato is the only Tier X who exhisted.

The Montana was scrapped during the construction and every other tier X is just a dream of some designer (or propaganda's agent)

The Yamato guns are also the biggest ever builded for a ship, and they should have been the top limit...

Sadly wg don't care about history, and development the tier x bb in a very distorted way.

 

[DFens_666]

34 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Uhm, according to that: Yes?

Disregarding a certain steel ship and a very new ship, every ship in the top has 457 mm. 

 

Shiki is newer than Bourg and has the biggest guns tho?

Ohio also kinda limited access ship, not as much as the other 2 but still. I dont think a lot of average or below players have Ohio yet (if ever).

Kremlin and Thunderer, while Thunderer is only marginally ahead of Conq in WR. Yamato and Repu are last. No reason not to count Repu, as it overmatches 30mm too.

[GulvkluderGuld]

25 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yes, when one ignores all counter arguments, one is right...

Even looking at all the ships, only Bourg (and slava if it has < 457 mm guns?) has higher than 50% wr so a case could be made for the ops argument.

Looking at only silver ships I'll admit the waters get quite muddy.

19 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Shiki is newer than Bourg and has the biggest guns tho?

Ohio also kinda limited access ship, not as much as the other 2 but still. I dont think a lot of average or below players have Ohio yet (if ever).

Kremlin and Thunderer, while Thunderer is only marginally ahead of Conq in WR. Yamato and Repu are last. No reason not to count Repu, as it overmatches 30mm too.

Tbh I tend to agree with first 2 points.

Looking at just the silver ships the chart is quite balanced. Yama, Repub and Monty WR as so close as to almost be identical (same case as with Thunder and Conq).

What the chart truly tells me, is a story of powercreep / special ships being OP.

 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

Even looking at all the ships, only Bourg (and slava if it has < 457 mm guns?) has higher than 50% wr

And? Bourg has the smallest BB guns on the Tier and outperforms all premiums. Yamato outperforms only one silver ship with smaller guns and even that one overmatches 30mm and comes still last...

 

Gun size is not the deciding factor.

 

7 minutes ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

What the chart truly tells me, is a story of powercreep / special ships being OP.

It tells that certain groups of the playerbase are better at playing BB...

[Jethro_Grey]

Yes, under powered.

 

As compensation for the lack of overmatch, WG should buff the reload of all BB guns below 430mm and before any modules and upgrades! 

 

Montana: 21 sec

Kurfurst: 19 sec

Conqueror: 20.5 sec

 

Problem solved.

 

[ColonelPete]

To make Yamato and Repu look even weaker?

[Hades_warrior]

3 hours ago, Origin47 said:

Yes, below 431mm to be more precise. Being able to overmatch 30mm plating is very useful. 

You wanna say that Montana cant delete TX ships? That would be a nice joke comment.