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1MajorKoenig

SINOP - why superfiring B-turret?

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Hi all,

 

Playing through the Soviet BB line I came to wonder why Sinop has a superfiring B-turret?

 

As far as I can see it is based on Kostenko’s 16” Black Sea Battleship Design from the mid-1910s. Kostenko believed that a superfiring B-turret would be a waste of weight as you either fight on the broadside or you can fire over the A-turret already with 15 degrees elevation.

 

Therefore he proposed a ship with A- and B-turret on the same elevation / directly on the main deck.

 

Why didn’t WG want to model Sinop in this way? Would certainly be more unique and more interesting?


 

Here are some pictures which can be found on the internet:

C67B641B-037C-4ED5-9DCB-E4FDCE12D79B.jpeg.5bf2ec638bc6d12c81f5bc4bf354792c.jpeg

A97C7B51-CEB6-41CA-8C7C-1FBCCEDB396B.thumb.jpeg.a68f015945cfad0c76356f8e52d41282.jpeg

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No idea.

That was already criticized last year.

Removing the superfiring would give Sinop a more "russian" look.

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Nice pictures and all that, but then she would have to show more broadside, and in true Russian fashion it would have to be made of something indestructible, imagine the howls of OP ness then, lol.

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Just now, Inappropriate_noob said:

Nice pictures and all that, but then she would have to show more broadside, and in true Russian fashion it would have to be made of something indestructible, imagine the howls of OP ness then, lol.

Interestingly the protection on this beast wouldn’t have been impressive really. Actually armor doesn’t seem to be a russian ship building priority. 

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1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Interestingly the protection on this beast wouldn’t have been impressive really. Actually armor doesn’t seem to be a russian ship building priority. 

IIRC soviets had some problems in producing strong enough armor plates for battleship purposes. Not that they had much time to experiment with it.

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5 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

IIRC soviets had some problems in producing strong enough armor plates for battleship purposes. Not that they had much time to experiment with it.

True but Not only that. They were very early looking at many and very big guns. There is only so much you can slap on a ship. In the mid-1910s they were planning 16” when anyone else was sailing around with 12”, 13” or the most evil beasts start to sport 15”
 

The Ganguts for example were pretty soft skinned as well 

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8 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

No idea.

That was already criticized last year.

Removing the superfiring would give Sinop a more "russian" look.

And...? What was the answer? @Crysantos ?

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11 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Why didn’t WG want to model Sinop in this way?

i guess because of this:

11 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

or you can fire over the A-turret already with 15 degrees elevation.

To my knowledge WG doesn´t have this mechanic that a turret can shoot forward form a certain elevation on.

It has a angle in horizontal direction where it can shoot or can not shoot, regardless the elevation.

So the ship which irl could fire two turrets straight forward couldn´t do it in-game. So WG went this route.

 

Just like many high-tier BBs irl couldn´t fire directly fwd because of the flared/elevated bow (sorry for the crappy pic)

df.thumb.jpg.82f38f7376cf890bc3a6b64a30431754.jpg

Like mentioned; i don´t know but guess.

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4 hours ago, VIadoCro said:

Just like many high-tier BBs irl couldn´t fire directly fwd because of the flared/elevated bow (sorry for the crappy pic)

 

But Yamato has this iIrc? I remember the A turrent not to be able to shootat targets close infront of the ship.

 

15 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Why didn’t WG want to model Sinop in this way?

 

To put it simple: this makes the ship stronger in the area she should be strong in: close quarter bow in tanking. Having a B turrent on the deck would force to much broadside.

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4 hours ago, Zemeritt said:

put it simple: this makes the ship stronger in the area she should be strong in: close quarter bow in tanking. Having a B turrent on the deck would force to much broadside.

Maybe. But they already cheated on the armor which would be a weakness of the line if captured half-realistic.

 

I think changing also the most prominent features of such design goes beyond artistic license and destroys the uniqueness of the design entirely. 
 

How about selecting “flavours” for a line which can be found on the real ships as well instead of turning them 180 degrees around?

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18 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

True but Not only that. They were very early looking at many and very big guns. There is only so much you can slap on a ship. In the mid-1910s they were planning 16” when anyone else was sailing around with 12”, 13” or the most evil beasts start to sport 15”
 

The Ganguts for example were pretty soft skinned as well 

I do not think they were really "planning". It looks more like a theoretical concept similiar to later H classes or Tillanns. Those ships were just not substainable. The guns would have been imported, since Russia even failed to build 14" guns in sufficient numbers, same most likely for the turbines. Not to mention the question, that what you want to do with that ship. Sinop was a Black seas design... you know, were they fight the Ottomans. With their strong naval assets. of 2-3 Dreadnoughts, for which the 4 already started Gangut variants would be sufficient enough.

Aside of... well, the slight issue, is the Bosperus closed, which the Ottomans can do, even without a large number of large warships, the ship is stuck there. Russia was known spending way above their limits with the Ganguts, and later the Borodinos, but I believe those ships would have been an entirely different beast in terms of prices. A gangut class was already, with around 30.000.000 rubles  pretty  expensive. The Borodino class was, in it's final design, with around 50.000.000 rubles around 66% more expensive.  What would such a ship cost? 80.000.000 rubles? 100.000.000?

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9 minutes ago, josykay said:

I do not think they were really "planning". It looks more like a theoretical concept similiar to later H classes or Tillanns. Those ships were just not substainable. The guns would have been imported, since Russia even failed to build 14" guns in sufficient numbers, same most likely for the turbines. Not to mention the question, that what you want to do with that ship. Sinop was a Black seas design... you know, were they fight the Ottomans. With their strong naval assets. of 2-3 Dreadnoughts, for which the 4 already started 4 Gangut variants would be sufficient enough.

Aside of... well, the slight issue, is the Bosperus closed, which the Ottomans can do, even without a large number of large warships, the ship is stuck there. Russia was known spending way about their limits with the Ganguts, and later the Borodinos, but I believe those ships would have been an entirely different beast in terms of prices. A gangut class was already, with around 30.000.000 rubles  pretty  expensive. The Borodino class was, in it's final design with around 50.000.000 rubles around 66% more expensive.  What would such a ship cost? 80.000.000 rubles? 100.000.000?

While it is true that the Russians were not really in a position to build neither the Kostenko nor the Bubnov Design although I would consider these two as the closest to be built. 
 

As for „planning“ - you are right but that doesn’t only apply for these couple of years. Have a read on the two decades before these designs - it is mind blowing to see how the “planning” was done - or even a little amusing. Almost surprising that the Pre-Dreads and the Ganguts could be completed in steel :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Although I don’t mind a good What-If-Story. If it’s Good :-)

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