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TomsonPRD

Lesta should fix a couple of major mistakes in Vittorio Veneto's model, yet another Roma copy-paste

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Great Post! 

 

Here a few Photos of plan drawings that show the detail of the Superstructure from "The Littorio Class: Italy's Last and Largest Battleships 1937-1948" by Erminio Bagnasco  and Augusto De Toro
 

Spoiler

 

119955017_688095791913591_1960157113916087013_n.thumb.jpg.2f52f57efb18766a1b1b67734633398a.jpg

notice the difference in the bow compared to Roma!

119953185_986716958512701_8243701285849537930_n.thumb.jpg.d62ece89b06f2cf0c0156854847ca941.jpg

119997487_345684570089394_1295220235737396559_n.thumb.jpg.a2bd4027a768dc42d021f47ffc0ade7e.jpg

120174981_337502994190030_3504607143118836720_n.thumb.jpg.e52ea208ab4aa5b44f76b072a1ab44f0.jpg

120077488_330218961380150_1710556025079873161_n.thumb.jpg.a8da8c581d4c25fd2a527a70e1bc57a7.jpg

120067743_3972917632723124_2288791766390324848_n.thumb.jpg.d4dec4e3e0de6ded00bfae20fb149c51.jpg

120119496_4374305899306196_4561492430716441698_n.thumb.jpg.db055d29faadd29f80ad5b45118ad429.jpg

120026762_353812719004406_2567140530082860223_n.thumb.jpg.688e5c8a52dae29228b46e62bf5d3e39.jpg

 

 

 

 

Here a few Photographs:

 

Spoiler

7c42h73f54k51.thumb.jpg.04cff9df9cb58671b97e537255c3d572.jpgcfc3e82c17d9.thumb.jpg.d17192dd901bffac07f3fa65bff5abeb.jpg37274a9107ce.thumb.jpg.c70f6fe292d65d8ec702bc7f53a642aa.jpg

here a picture of Vittorio Venetos bow. Note the two Starboard Anchors compared to Romas

120091111_646964976252496_1379644532904925193_n.thumb.jpg.4cdb7cbe6b549752f84d1f132d1e3efd.jpg

 

Here rather detailed 3d plans of VV and Roma by Carlo Cestra:

 

Spoiler

carlo-cestra-02.thumb.jpg.75f3bd4f8593bcf657314594080100ad.jpgcarlo-cestra-front.thumb.jpg.0dfa71fc019fef63eb235652b78ef560.jpgcarlo-cestra-cover-01.thumb.jpg.02f6f3955771396df68612b0a4d3c409.jpgitalian-battleship-vittorio-veneto-carlo-cestra.thumb.jpg.18f4ec405435ab415e94a7777f5b79e1.jpg

and here Roma for comparison:

italian-battleship-roma-carlo-cestra.thumb.jpg.203a50600b1df56ec79f110a61397704.jpg

 

 

There is a big difference between the first 2 Littorios compared to Roma. I really really hope that the Vittorio Veneto model we have ingame really is just a placeholder cause it would be a damn shame if it was not. WG makes different models for ships of the same class all the time, for example Strasbourg and Jean Bart. So why can't they do this here too? Those ships are pretty much never featured in any game before and probably will not really feature in many games in the future, so this is the only chance for someone who really likes those ships to have them accurately portrayed in a game. Pls WG listen here pls make an effort and give VV a unique model, I beg you. Please let the previewed ship just be a placeholder.
 

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If the ship we have atm is a placeholder we could use it as another Italian BB (why not) as its own thing if weegee decides to use her.

I think the reason why i haven't decided to model any actual ships is because i get unnerved if i mess it up, hence why i go for custom designs (plus it helps me model ships faster anyways).

 

I mean if they did yamato correctly i don't see why they don't do the same for every historical ship.

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The ship we have at the moment is Roma, which we already have. They are just lazily reusing the model instead of making the changes that differentiated Roma from her sisters.

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Just now, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

The ship we have at the moment is Roma, which we already have. They are just lazily reusing the model instead of making the changes that differentiated Roma from her sisters.

The changes wouldn't be that hard nor slow either, fairly quick to adjust and make.

Reminds me of the Warhammer 40k collab, that was amazingly lazy and the azur lane collab was lazy as hell as well they could of made some changes even if minor to make them different (Or similar to their IRL if they had any and/or Potential design choices with future sisters etc).

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37 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

The changes wouldn't be that hard nor slow either, fairly quick to adjust and make.

 Reminds me of the Warhammer 40k collab, that was amazingly lazy and the azur lane collab was lazy as hell as well

This is the second time Roma's model is copied 1:1 to represent her sisters, like AL Littorio. I understand that, with AL collabs, models are never actually touched and are just clones, but with V.V. representing the class as a whole, it's another story. We're not asking for a complete remodel of the ship, but simple corrections to both Bow and Conning Tower. Lesta did an awesome job tiering from T4 to T8, they shouldn't fall to lazyness regarding these important details.

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13 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

The ship we have at the moment is Roma, which we already have. They are just lazily reusing the model instead of making the changes that differentiated Roma from her sisters.

 

Its exactly that what I don't get. Why are they just lazy and copy the existing model? The art team in this game is so great. Looking at stuff like the shipyard building something or the incredible event ships, the transformer stuff etc it all looks amazing, I just can't get it in my head why they could not be bothered to actually make a historical ship. I just don't understand it. I waited so damn long for this ship to be ingame I so damn hope WG listens and does not screw this up, cause I really doubt we will get many Mediterranean Theater Naval games in the near future, this is like one of the only chances to see those ships modeled in a game.

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2 minutes ago, TomsonPRD said:

This is the second time Roma's model is copied 1:1 to represent her sisters, like AL Littorio. I understand that, with collabs, models are never actually touched and are just clones, but with V.V. representing the class as a whole, it's another story. We're not asking for a complete remodel of the ship, but simple corrections to both Bow and Conning Tower. Lesta did an awesome job tiering from T4 to T8, they shouldn't fall to lazyness regarding these important details.

Ye, but still highlights how lazy they are, they put more bloody effort into that gothic skin for bismarck (which is bloody hilarious since that, obviously took more time and effort to make than the shoddy imperial camo and skin they made and could of just used bismarck for the imperium and whatever else for chaos).

 

Half the time it seems their priorities go to pot as well. 

Also i prefer this for the tech tree really.

 

http://shipcomrade.com/?p=4523

Along with any relevant corrections.

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6 minuti fa, alexkon3 ha scritto:

Its exactly that what I don't get. Why are they just lazy and copy the existing model?

Because it saves them time; making these models from scratch takes months.

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6 minutes ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Because it saves them time; making these models from scratch takes months.

that would honestly be kinda sad. There are almost no naval warfare games nowadays, there are so few chances to see those awesome ships somewhere, its literally a unique opportunity. 

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6 minutes ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Because it saves them time; making these models takes months.

Exactly, which is why I understand they just copied Roma again. The VV model we have now is good for the most part, it just needs these two minor adjustments to be the perfect embodiment of the whole Littorio-class

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Funny how when it comes to the Soviet BB's, they painstakingly copy every historical detail of theirs and transfer them into the in-game models. :Smile_trollface:

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13 minutes ago, TomsonPRD said:

Exactly, which is why I understand they just copied Roma again. The VV model we have now is good for the most part, it just needs these two minor adjustments to be the perfect embodiment of the whole Littorio-class

The funny thing is that if they make a corrected VV model they could even use it for AL Littorio (even tho Littorio also has her own specialties but I can honestly look past that if we at least get one correct VV model) to make her more authentic  

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1 hour ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Because it saves them time; making these models from scratch takes months.

That's kinda BS, if you have something like 3DSmax you could make a whole ship in a week. 

It's not like they have to detail, map and texture every bolt. In this case, it is some minor changes. 

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1 minuto fa, BLUB__BLUB ha scritto:

In this case, it is some minor changes. 

well, yes, to change the model of V.Veneto wouldn't take much time.

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So quoting from someone at reddit:

Quote

 

I happened to direct this question over to the devs today, and the answer was that VV's model is indeed that of Roma's and a model overhaul/rework for Vittorio Veneto is highly unlikely in a near future. The reasoning was:

Researchable ships usually represent a collective image of a type, with borrowings from different ships. In case of Veneto, her hull is indeed based on Roma's.

 

if this really is true then this is probably the dumbest reason I ever heard. This feels more like a lazy rush job then a real reason. I am absolutely livid. 

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1 minuto fa, alexkon3 ha scritto:

So quoting from someone at reddit:

if this really is true then this is probably the dumbest reason I ever heard. This feels more like a lazy rush job then a real reason. I am absolutely livid. 

Yeah, that's so dumb. 

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33 minutes ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Yeah, that's so dumb. 

 

I still can't believe this. I hope its just a joke or something. There is pretty much no other chance to see this ship in the near future in a game. We'd probably have to wait for WT to add Battleships in like 1000000000 years and then another 100000000 years for them to add them to italy and then we'd have to grind for that same amount of time to unlock them. 

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1 hour ago, chyornaya_koshka said:

 i hope blueprints originals would not be forgotten..   

good job guys :cap_viking:

Well I guess they were lying when they say this:

 

 

What else can we do that maybe changes WGs mind or draw their attention to it?

 

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So, I forgot to share this yesterday, but as said many times before, this reasoning is basically nonsense. Roma is the single member of her subclass. The "collective image of a type" represented by silver ships should be based on Littorio or Veneto herself, almost identical, definitely not the unique third ship. Nothing was borrowed or inspired from other vessels, as Veneto's model as it is now is simply 100% Roma's. If Veneto in game is the epitome of the entire class why would it have the exact same model of the ship that was the only one of the class to have those differences?

 

unknown.png

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7 minutes ago, TomsonPRD said:

So, I forgot to share this yesterday, but as said many times before, this reasoning is basically nonsense. Roma is the single member of her subclass. The "collective image of a type" represented by silver ships should be based on Littorio or Veneto herself, definitely not the unique third ship. Nothing was borrowed or inspired from other vessels, as Veneto's model as it is now is simply 100% Roma's

 

unknown.png

TL;DR control+c, control+v intensifies.

 

And they aren't exactly wrong, because amount of people knowing about this or caring about "minor details" probably can be counted with fingers of a hand that held fragmentation grenade tad too long.

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59 minutes ago, TomsonPRD said:

So, I forgot to share this yesterday, but as said many times before, this reasoning is basically nonsense. Roma is the single member of her subclass. The "collective image of a type" represented by silver ships should be based on Littorio or Veneto herself, almost identical, definitely not the unique third ship. Nothing was borrowed or inspired from other vessels, as Veneto's model as it is now is simply 100% Roma's. If Veneto in game is the epitome of the entire class why would it have the exact same model of the ship that was the only one of the class to have those differences?

 

unknown.png

 

I just can't believe it. It's an absolute travesty. I have never heard such a stupid reasoning ever. What can we do to change this? Like there has to be a way. Like its not even "based" on Roma its just a bloody copy of the ship. 

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59 minutes ago, Panocek said:

TL;DR control+c, control+v intensifies.

 

And they aren't exactly wrong, because amount of people knowing about this or caring about "minor details" probably can be counted with fingers of a hand that held fragmentation grenade tad too long.

This is the main issue. 

I'm one of the players who wouldn't be able to see the model of one of my favorite destroyer (Shigure) and recognize it for certain to be Shigure. Neither would I care if they mostly just cloned the Shiratsuyu model and named it Shigure as an example. I love looking at the models but something I only see during the first 15 seconds of every battle and sometimes in port when I look closer at this point just isn't something I would every notice. If the models looked low quality or just bad then that would be an issue. But historical accuracy requires to much effort to recognize outside of being a hobby. 

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10 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

This is the main issue. 

I'm one of the players who wouldn't be able to see the model of one of my favorite destroyer (Shigure) and recognize it for certain to be Shigure. Neither would I care if they mostly just cloned the Shiratsuyu model and named it Shigure as an example. I love looking at the models but something I only see during the first 15 seconds of every battle and sometimes in port when I look closer at this point just isn't something I would every notice. If the models looked low quality or just bad then that would be an issue. But historical accuracy requires to much effort to recognize outside of being a hobby. 

Although with famous ships and ships that helped turn the tide of battles or even wars, its just a fat no-no. Although having been modelling my own ships, i've learnt that it is very time consuming to model everything (from the little binoculars, to small radar dishes, fencing, life thingies, those cylinder rope things, hatches, rangefinders, barrels, rigging etc).

 

Not too mention poly count goes through the roof, my own american CA design comes to around 400k polys alone, where as weegees des moines is around 250k polys (still a lot mind you). Although they will have different textures and different models at different qualities to represent those.

 

I think their models suffer from double vertices, but since their models are no longer available for download i can't check this.

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