Bone to pick with CV players

[Duecut]

Sorry for the rant and I don't mean it as CV bashing but please CV players ,for the love of whatever you believe in, stop screwing over your DD teammates.

 

I have 2 specific issues:

1. Please stop dropping a fighter on a friendly DD when it has full HP , is likely to be undetected or the Red planes aren't heading straight for it. Because its like a big freaking balloon saying "Hay red team there's a DD is over here". 
2. Please be aware of your friendly DDs torpedo's, if I had a penny for the amount of times a DD or CA torps are heading straight to the broadside of a red ship only to have freaking torpedo bombers come in from the same angle as the yet undetected torps which encourages the red ship to turn in the DD/CA torpedo's that would have otherwise killed it

 

[Captain_Newman]

1 minute ago, Duecut said:

Sorry for the rant and I don't mean it as CV bashing but please CV players ,for the love of whatever you believe in, stop screwing over your DD teammates.

 

I have 2 specific issues:

1. Please stop dropping a fighter on a friendly DD when it has full HP , is likely to be undetected or the Red planes aren't heading straight for it. Because its like a big freaking balloon saying "Hay red team there's a DD is over here". 
2. Please be aware of your friendly DDs torpedo's, if I had a penny for the amount of times a DD or CA torps are heading straight to the broadside of a red ship only to have freaking torpedo bombers come in from the same angle as the yet undetected torps which encourages the red ship to turn in the DD/CA torpedo's that would have otherwise killed it

 

 

If I had a penny for every time either of those things happened...

 

A part of the problem is that CV play is still pretty disconnected from the rest of the team, so most CV players aren’t really used to considering what their team mates are doing.

 

At least the first one comes from good intentions, as silly as it is. The second one us truly annoying - check if your targets are being torped and please don’t make the enemy ship dodge like 60-80k of damage just so you can put 6k worth of aerial torp damage in...

[Beastofwar]

Well here is a CV player that

 

- does not drop fighters on DD or other allies. For the reason i need them myself as spotter planes  for DD hunting, CV defence or to continue spotting indirect damage when my planes return to the CV.

 

- that does not turn enemies from torpedoing friendlies. DD  do a lot more damage then CV can so  DD torpedo salvo's that actually hit are better for the win, it would be contraproductive for own interests to interupt that.

 

So you must be quite happy with that......many team mates are not.

 

And  "saving" those that cannot stay buoyant with fighter consumables is not good for the win. Dropping a fighter over them will only delay their demise a few seconds to minutes at maximum. Rarely will they use that slightly extended life to sink enemies because they were already in trouble/failing to be in such state. And waste a limited consumable. So it is not productive. Live and let die.

 

Killing enemies is good for the win. That goes faster with focus and not being distracted by actions that are futile.

 

If you think that is harsh, i am in DD for roughly 25 % of my play time myself......and Cruisers and BB for 45 % of the time. i NEVER mewled for fighters dropped on me......i like to keep my own pants up....

 

 

[lovelacebeer]

I don't mind the fighter support and usually if I really don't want it a quick message in chat means they won't, at least it comes with good intentions. 

 

However the second point about alerting the enemy to my torps I wholeheartedly agree and sympathise. It happens so frustratingly often that a CV player will fly right over me down the line that my torps are currently following and help the enemy avoid all my torps as he dodges the air attack. It's so common too that I do have to wonder if it's done deliberately or the result of CVs being so disconnected from the rest of the team. 

[Butterdoll]

5 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

- does not drop fighters on DD or other allies. For the reason i need them myself as spotter planes  for DD hunting, CV defence or to continue spotting indirect damage when my planes return to the CV.

this seems a lot like déja vu from the old RTS times but. Use the freaking planes for yourself and leave the fighters for our cover. 

You want to spot? Use your striker planes they are fast.

 

6 hours ago, Duecut said:

Please stop dropping a fighter on a friendly DD when it has full HP , is likely to be undetected or the Red planes aren't heading straight for it. Because its like a big freaking balloon saying "Hay red team there's a DD is over here". 

 

Speak for yourself.

 

And not always means that there is a dd over here, personally i like to be in the green bubble, and if i'm being harassed by a cv and i see a green bubble appear around my ship, that's a insta like for the green cv player

 

[Aethervoxx]

Why pick this bone with CV players?  You should be picking this bone with WG. They are the ones who have made these reworked CVs so broken.

[eliastion]

17 hours ago, Captain_Newman said:

A part of the problem is that CV play is still pretty disconnected from the rest of the team, so most CV players aren’t really used to considering what their team mates are doing.

No. The much more relevant issue is that the average CV player is just as dumb as the average player of another class - but has tools to project his stupidity over the map more globally

 

But seriously - the other players tend to act just as disconnected as CVs. Being less detached in gameplay they "compensate" with being even more tunnel-visioned. OP mentions torpedo bombers causing enemy ships to turn - but other classes, whenever possible, do very similar things, like Radaring a smoke camper a couple second before the smoke gets combed by a lethal torpedo spread - well,  not quite as lethal now when the "friendly" cruiser has managed to force the enemy to accelerate and angle/leave smoke just in time to save their life. Then come DDs team-torping and getting angry about it, or BBs that ram into you and push you out of smoke/from behind cover/into enemy torps, because they can't notice you at all before the impact happens...

[Duecut]

Thanks for not bashing me on my rant, I normally don't get "motivated..." enough to complain but yesterday it was just getting ridiculous, particularly after losing a ranked match 981:1000 because the CV wanted to torp the BB and "win the game".

11 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

Speak for yourself.

 

And not always means that there is a dd over here, personally i like to be in the green bubble, and if i'm being harassed by a cv and i see a green bubble appear around my ship, that's a insta like for the green cv player

I agree that being harassed by a Red CV does warrant assistance from a Green CV fighter, but that's not what I was ranting about, notably as I said "is likely to be undetected or the Red planes aren't heading straight for it". 

 

1 hour ago, Aethervoxx said:

Why pick this bone with CV players?  You should be picking this bone with WG. They are the ones who have made these reworked CVs so broken.

We cant keep fielding all of our issues at WG, we need to take responsibility for ourselves. Yes, WG can improve the interface to assist players in their map awareness, but the two issues I was ranting about could be resolved with CV players understanding the possible impact of what they do in the game. And yes this can be levelled at all players in the game at one time or another. With regard the torpedo's, I don't see what more can be done by WG other than make the torpedo's direction of travel a bit more obvious to the planes overhead.

[Beastofwar]

15 minutes ago, eliastion said:

No. The much more relevant issue is that the average CV player is just as dumb as the average player of another class - but has tools to project his stupidity over the map more globally

 

But seriously - the other players tend to act just as disconnected as CVs. Being less detached in gameplay they "compensate" with being even more tunnel-visioned. OP mentions torpedo bombers causing enemy ships to turn - but other classes, whenever possible, do very similar things, like Radaring a smoke camper a couple second before the smoke gets combed by a lethal torpedo spread - well,  not quite as lethal now when the "friendly" cruiser has managed to force the enemy to accelerate and angle/leave smoke just in time to save their life. Then come DDs team-torping and getting angry about it, or BBs that ram into you and push you out of smoke/from behind cover/into enemy torps, because they can't notice you at all before the impact happens...

 

Smoking up in front of allies - and blinding itself when it was spotting -  that just saw a perfect broadside enemy Cruiser sailing by in the distance......

 

Ramming an almost dead enemy that is under fire by friendlies that would die shortly anyway......with a full HP ship.

 

and so on and so on.

 

 

[Butterdoll]

5 minutes ago, Duecut said:

because the CV wanted to torp the BB and "win the game".

About the second point you made.

That's not exclusively, that happen to all classes too, regardless  which one we talk about.

there you are, you are presented with a juicy broadside, you can't believe your luck and you shoot/torp but meanwhile something happens and the target dodge in time.

I guess that's just incoordination, comes with the territory, being in a team playing driven game with 11 more random players 

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 17 Stunden, Aethervoxx sagte:

Why pick this bone with CV players?  You should be picking this bone with WG. They are the ones who have made these reworked CVs so broken.

The points of the OP have nothing to do with the CV class being broken.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 15 Stunden, Butterdoll sagte:

About the second point you made.

That's not exclusively, that happen to all classes too, regardless  which one we talk about.

there you are, you are presented with a juicy broadside, you can't believe your luck and you shoot/torp but meanwhile something happens and the target dodge in time.

I guess that's just incoordination, comes with the territory, being in a team playing driven game with 11 more random players 

It is easier for a CV to avoid sabotaging team mates efforts.

[BLUB__BLUB]

On 9/24/2020 at 11:18 PM, Duecut said:

Sorry for the rant and I don't mean it as CV bashing but please CV players ,for the love of whatever you believe in, stop screwing over your DD teammates.

I have a few pointers for the CV-players for that.

 

Quote

I have 2 specific issues:

1. Please stop dropping a fighter on a friendly DD when it has full HP , is likely to be undetected or the Red planes aren't heading straight for it. Because its like a big freaking balloon saying "Hay red team there's a DD is over here". 

IMO it is better to drop them a bit further away, so the planes provide spotting for the DD. 

I always drop them behind the cap, on the red side, when the DD is already in the cap. 

The reds already know then he is in the cap (as it is flipping). 

DD usually smokes up and because of fighters he still has vision. So have the rest of the team. 

 

Quote

1. Please be aware of your friendly DDs torpedo's, if I had a penny for the amount of times a DD or CA torps are heading straight to the broadside of a red ship only to have freaking torpedo bombers come in from the same angle as the yet undetected torps which encourages the red ship to turn in the DD/CA torpedo's that would have otherwise killed it

I usually drop them BEHIND that ship, so he keeps sailing straight... 

True usually I do not hit, except if he turns to avoid the DD torps, then he eats mine... 

If those hit it usually causes rudder defects or other stuff, too. 

 

My usual divmate is a DD-main. That is why we found these tricks. But I also have something for the non-CVs:

Please if I have withered down a BB, and I am spotting him because I fly in for the kill, leave him for me?

No fun always spilling ammo, see it drop/speed towards the target and then being denied the kill. 

Or at least put in chat you are gonna finish him off. 

[SkollUlfr]

On 9/24/2020 at 10:24 PM, Captain_Newman said:

 

 

A part of the problem is that CV play is still pretty disconnected from the rest of the team, so most CV players aren’t really used to considering what their team mates are doing.

dd and cv players are actually quite the same. they both seek to exploit isolated targets who sail in straight lines.

both of whom are competing for points derived from personal damage.

 

the same argument could be made of dd who refuse to stay near friendly AA halos and get ganked at the start of the match for no reason.

or radar cruisers who refuse to use radar/sonar because they cant personally directly benefit at that moment.

or bb who refuse to leave the back of the map.

[Migantium_Mashum]

On 9/24/2020 at 10:18 PM, Duecut said:

Sorry for the rant and I don't mean it as CV bashing but please CV players ,for the love of whatever you believe in, stop screwing over your DD teammates.

 

I have 2 specific issues:

1. Please stop dropping a fighter on a friendly DD when it has full HP , is likely to be undetected or the Red planes aren't heading straight for it. Because its like a big freaking balloon saying "Hay red team there's a DD is over here". 
2. Please be aware of your friendly DDs torpedo's, if I had a penny for the amount of times a DD or CA torps are heading straight to the broadside of a red ship only to have freaking torpedo bombers come in from the same angle as the yet undetected torps which encourages the red ship to turn in the DD/CA torpedo's that would have otherwise killed it

 

As a DD main my biggest bug bear is number 2...

I have lost count of the missed kills because the CV turns a ship that my torps would have killed... Their paltry damage against a sure kill and to then watch the ship that should have died become the deciding factor of the game for the enemy...

 

There are many CV players out there who are so thick that they are in danger of setting.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

8 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Their paltry damage

So when they apparently steal ur kill they deal only "paltry" dmg but when they hit you they always do to much? 

You have my full support dude. 

[BLUB__BLUB]

7 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

As a DD main my biggest bug bear is number 2...

I have lost count of the missed kills because the CV turns a ship that my torps would have killed... Their paltry damage against a sure kill and to then watch the ship that should have died become the deciding factor of the game for the enemy...

 

There are many CV players out there who are so thick that they are in danger of setting.

Check out my stats in CV, it will show you what happens. When I div up my WR gets up, but my damage goes down. 

It is because I actually help t my divvies, for instance by dumping torps at the rear of a BB. 

Yeah I probably spill the torps, but it means a full hit for them. And one less red BB. 

 

I usually don't do that when solo, same as putting fighters up - because when solo, for sure they're not gonna help me either.

That is, for instance, if they forsake a complete cap and 2 DDs come through I'll be toast and I'll need my fighters for myself.

 

You should div up your DD with a CV, they can help each other a great deal. 

My usual divvy is a DD main, by now he is so used to CVs he developed lots of stuff to deal with the red ones. 

Usually ends up him being #1 and me being #2 on team. 

 

3 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

So when they apparently steal ur kill they deal only "paltry" dmg but when they hit you they always do to much? 

You have my full support dude. 

He probably means their 2 torps that hit but makes his 6 fat ones miss, due to BB trying to avoid those two "paltry ones". 

 

[Migantium_Mashum]

1 minute ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

So when they apparently steal ur kill they deal only "paltry" dmg but when they hit you they always do to much? 

You have my full support dude. 

I think you missed the point by a mile.. 15 Shima torps almost always equal a guaranteed kill versus 4 CV Torps.. and it isn't about kill stealing either.

 

Imagine my target is a GK and because of the CV attacking it none of my torps hit home, whereas if the CV had left the GK alone it would be dead and that GK goes on alive to bag 5 of your team as the game progresses....

When had the CV used their brains the GK would have been sunk and out of the game entirely.....

[Beastofwar]

13 minutes ago, Zuihou_Kai said:

So when they apparently steal ur kill they deal only "paltry" dmg but when they hit you they always do to much? 

You have my full support dude. 

 

He is right CV turning targets away from a potential perfect connecting torpedo salvo is a rediculous waste of team effort and a huge drawback for the one torpeoding.

 

Torpedoing other then at close rage is a very difficult skill. Foiling that without thought a vary bad thing.

 

I do dislike a lot of players for being so anti-CV with very poor reasons other then being fossile conservatists that want to keep everything as it is in tier II/III. But i will still try to cooperate with them within limits and not turning targets from torpedos is one of the thing i wil always consider. And it helps me too : a DD salvo IS far more destructive then pathetic CV aerial torpedo's. I will not waste a good allied strike for just a little more personal damage.....that is more the behaviour of toxic damage racers/ stats fanatics.

[Migantium_Mashum]

11 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

He is right CV turning targets away from a potential perfect connecting torpedo salvo is a rediculous waste of team effort and a huge drawback for the one torpeoding.

 

Torpedoing other then at close rage is a very difficult skill. Foiling that without thought a vary bad thing.

 

I do dislike a lot of players for being so anti-CV with very poor reasons other then being fossile conservatists that want to keep everything as it is in tier II/III. But i will still try to cooperate with them within limits and not turning targets from torpedos is one of the thing i wil always consider. And it helps me too : a DD salvo IS far more destructive then pathetic CV aerial torpedo's. I will not waste a good allied strike for just a little more personal damage.....that is more the behaviour of toxic damage racers/ stats fanatics.

I have had some really good CV consorts and I make the effort to message them in Port to say thank you as well as giving them a +1... Unfortunately, a good CV player is a rare thing...

[BLUB__BLUB]

1 minute ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

When had the CV used their brains the GK would have been sunk and out of the game entirely.....

I agree with you, that Currywurst eating your torps would be better for the win.

But here's the thing - CVs have high "service cost" and they need to make a bit of damage as well. 

Which is why I usually bomb the crap out of a Curry. Make it burn baby! 

 

When I'm your CV-divvy I'll also notice you when he used DCP, so you can set a (few) perma-fire(s).

If all good, you are sitting safely in smoke, capping, Curry being spotted by fighters...

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Migantium_Mashum]

8 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

I agree with you, that Currywurst eating your torps would be better for the win.

But here's the thing - CVs have high "service cost" and they need to make a bit of damage as well. 

Which is why I usually bomb the crap out of a Curry. Make it burn baby! 

 

When I'm your CV-divvy I'll also notice you when he used DCP, so you can set a (few) perma-fire(s).

If all good, you are sitting safely in smoke, capping, Curry being spotted by fighters...

 

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As I am not a CV player I did not realise the returns for the CV were so low... I take it spotting damage doesn't compensate.

[Captain_Newman]

1 hour ago, SkollUlfr said:

dd and cv players are actually quite the same. they both seek to exploit isolated targets who sail in straight lines.

both of whom are competing for points derived from personal damage.

 

the same argument could be made of dd who refuse to stay near friendly AA halos and get ganked at the start of the match for no reason.

or radar cruisers who refuse to use radar/sonar because they cant personally directly benefit at that moment.

or bb who refuse to leave the back of the map.

 

All of this is true, the point I was making was that CV play still differs more from the other classes than it does between the other classes. The different perspective often creates a mindset of treating all the other players, allies and enemies alike, as just bots. The average CV player will find it way easier to not even notice what his team is doing, in my opinion.

 

But you're right, it happens a lot on other classes too. The difference being that the classes themselves are not unhealthy for the gameplay, while the behavior of some of their players can be. With the CV you can start with the class itself being unhealthy and then you can top it off with not  really wanting to see either potato nor unicum CV's on the map at all.

[BLUB__BLUB]

14 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

As I am not a CV player I did not realise the returns for the CV were so low... I take it spotting damage doesn't compensate.

Basically, in a T10CV you need well over 50k damage on a win to break even.

That's not counting flags, premium account. But on a loss... 100K damage won't cut the cake. 

T8s are not much better, which is why DDs get hunted. They deliver the most (and easiest) XP.

Also they are the easiest target (least AA), so for most CVs in higher tiers (when they are potato) that is the only ship they can farm.

[Beastofwar]

20 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

Basically, in a T10CV you need well over 50k damage on a win to break even.

That's not counting flags, premium account. But on a loss... 100K damage won't cut the cake. 

T8s are not much better, which is why DDs get hunted. They deliver the most (and easiest) XP.

Also they are the easiest target (least AA), so for most CVs in higher tiers (when they are potato) that is the only ship they can farm.

 

While true there are probably other targets to pick off........and if the DD makes a good strike your win chance increases, and then the bonusses increase also ( not the credits though )

 

But using premium time and premium camo's on tech tree CV i might not be in a position to judge all CV players in their position. Still i think it should be avoided......i am a dedicated DD player also. I hate it when CV frustrate a long range difficult torpedo spread that would have connected....