Nerf Stalingrad and petro

[Joehrax]

99.9% you Wargaming aren't going to read this, because its not money related nor a payment proces page,

 

nevertherless in the slight 0.1% you do read this, please stop the russian glory on your ship, we get it your company is in Russian, but this Stalingrad spam together with petro is ABSURD, if you going to release cruiser battleships hybrids, atleast remove the 12 km radar which is totally absurd armor value.

 

But you probly wont because hey its not quick moneygrab.

 

Oh and still waiting for the cv balance/ remove but that dream is right next to my lamborghini dream as in equal chance of succes.

[fumtu]

4 minutes ago, Joehrax said:

Rant

 

WG would not direct nerf SG, but there is slight chance, even tho probably many would not like it, to nerf if indirectly via changes to captain skills as removal of FP and BoS could impact SG quite heavily.  Petro on the other hand already received first nerf with change of concealment. It probably won't be enough but it is a start at least. I agree that it is too strong in current form. 

[Miscommunication]

Don't worry, I'm sure a 16 shell volley of SAP from the new TX Italian BB, as it rushes in undetected due to its special smoke screen, will get rid of annoying bowtanking Russian "cruisers"

 

WG's method of nerfing ships is to introduce a new (usually russian) even more powerful ship that people then proceed to complain about and forget about the previous OP ship.

[Odo_Toothless]

6 minutes ago, fumtu said:

WG would not direct nerf SG,

Stalin has not a premium status, so they can freely change her stats, but I don't think such thing will happen to a ship with such, almost saint name ;-).

[fumtu]

Just now, Odo_Toothless said:

Stalin has not a premium status, so they can freely change her stats.

 

All T10 premiums are, yet WG never directly nerfed any of them, all "nerfs" camo from general changes. So yes, there is always a chance to nerf SG directly, but practically it is very small chance.

[Hirohito]

I always disliked the Stalingrad.
She has for several seasons now been a favourite in team lineups during both ranked play and tournament play, yet she remains "as is" despite being disproportionally popular.
Smolensk for instance was pulled from the shop because it was "too popular", showing that WG does value whether a ship is too popular or not.
Smolensk was also later nerfed with a plating change (again showing that they are willing to nerf something if there's enough of an outcry).
Yet Stalingrad remains, despite it being blatant that this ship is very strong in ranked/tournament play.

It's getting a bit old seeing so many Stalingrads in ranked and tournament play, and it was especially frustrating to see that when there was a meta developing to counter static Stalingrad spam (with Henri IV), it was the god damn Henri that got the nerf instead!
Just... why!?

[Bear__Necessities]

We’ll ignore the release off ever stronger USN premiums and specials however because it doesn’t fit with the Russian Bias agenda.... *cough* Ohio *cough*

[DFens_666]

27 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

All T10 premiums are, yet WG never directly nerfed any of them, all "nerfs" camo from general changes. So yes, there is always a chance to nerf SG directly, but practically it is very small chance.

 

Nerfs to Smolensk and Colbert were just covered as "general changes" since no techtree ship got changed apart from those 2.

Atleast thats how i see it. Those were direct nerfs to those 2 ships. I mean, they didnt nerf Wooster down to 16mm armor despite being a CL

[Hirohito]

11 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

We’ll ignore the release off ever stronger USN premiums and specials however because it doesn’t fit with the Russian Bias agenda.... *cough* Ohio *cough*

True, but in the ongoing KOTS you usually see a max of 2 BBs (granted, they are capped at 2) where there is somewhat equal representation between Ohio, Kremlin and Thunderer (and the occasional Slava/Yamato).
Meanwhile, I saw several games including between 3 and 5 Stalingrads (one one side!).
If that's not too over the top regarding tournament play, I don't know what is.
It also makes KOTS super boring to watch, once you've seen the same s***show take place in several consecutive matches.

KOTS could have been more interesting to follow if the meta was allowed to evolve, but after the Henri IV (which challenged SG) nerf it looks like WG is dead set on the same ridiculous lineups as defining "competitive tournament play", hammering down on any evolution in strategies and tactics.

[GarrusBrutus]

Where did the glorious stalinium touch you, OP?

 

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

I always disliked the Stalingrad.
She has for several seasons now been a favourite in team lineups during both ranked play and tournament play, yet she remains "as is" despite being disproportionally popular.
Smolensk for instance was pulled from the shop because it was "too popular", showing that WG does value whether a ship is too popular or not.
Smolensk was also later nerfed with a plating change (again showing that they are willing to nerf something if there's enough of an outcry).
Yet Stalingrad remains, despite it being blatant that this ship is very strong in ranked/tournament play.

It's getting a bit old seeing so many Stalingrads in ranked and tournament play, and it was especially frustrating to see that when there was a meta developing to counter static Stalingrad spam (with Henri IV), it was the god damn Henri that got the nerf instead!
Just... why!?

 

Henri accel-dodging at 17km was retarded and needed a nerf. Henri is still a strong cruiser, despite the nerf. The problem was, it never needed a MBRB, which made it too powerful. MBRB in general is a stupid consumable and should be removed from the game.

 

Stalingrad isnt really accessable to most players. There are like 13k Stalingrads on EU server, but 42k Smolensk. A good player wouldnt pick Smolensk in ranked tho, as Stalingrad is basicly just better. If the enemy team knows how to angle, and your team cant create crossfire, you can just go home with Stalingrad thanks to its low DPM. Its good at punishing mistakes, apart from that, not so much.

[Hirohito]

8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Henri accel-dodging at 17km was retarded and needed a nerf. Henri is still a strong cruiser, despite the nerf. The problem was, it never needed a MBRB, which made it too powerful. MBRB in general is a stupid consumable and should be removed from the game.

 

I kind of agree with the accel-dodging part, but it essentially killed off an interesting evolution to the meta, as I'm sure the meta would have evolved further if people in turn would have had to come up with ways to counter the Henri (and then counter the counter, etc.).
They should at least have considered buffing the Henri with a compensation that still punished SG spam (top speed, rudder shift, turning radius etc., just throwing out suggestions here), in return for the accel-dodge nerf, so as to let the meta evolve - or, nerf the strong parts of what makes the SG so good in KOTS (I'm also in favour of this).
During the games I watched of KOTS the other day, only 1 team used a single Henri, and it was promptly blapped during an unfortunate turn at range.
Haven't seen any others so far, so the 2019 meta using Henri IV to counter SG heavy lineups seems to be mostly dead now, and we're back to square one regarding the meta.

[Miscommunication_dept]

They both are very strong but I’m not sure either is OP.

 

Petro has poor long range accuracy

 

Stalingrad has an incredibly easy to punish citadel and terrible agility.

battleship AP rarely overpens a Stalingrads citadel!

 

If the Stalingrad finds itself focused by Hindis or HE battleships, it will find itself in trouble as it cannot go dark or turn and run.

 

Both very strong ships but with real weaknesses that in my opinion, prevents them from being broken.

[Thorsvald]

Nerf Slava!!! 

Nerf moskva!!!

Nerf Stalingrad!!!

Nerf Petro!!!

Nerf Smolensk!!!

Nerf moar russian stuf!!!!

 

Nerf Thunderer, USN cruisers, enterprise, champagne!!!  western stuff moar russian stuf!!!

 

Giulio Cesare, vampire, belfast, kamikaze, T61...

[Hirohito]

8 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

They both are very strong but I’m not sure either is OP.

 

Petro has poor long range accuracy

 

Stalingrad has an incredibly easy to punish citadel and terrible agility.

battleship AP rarely overpens a Stalingrads citadel!

 

If the Stalingrad finds itself focused by Hindis or HE battleships, it will find itself in trouble as it cannot go dark or turn and run.

 

Both very strong ships but with real weaknesses that in my opinion, prevents them from being broken.

I agree at least in respect to randoms, where Stalingrads have to be mindful of flanking maneuvers exposing their broadside or opening them up to HE spam.
In tournament play though, the gameplay is often extremely static (apart from the odd match) and the teams immediately jump to the key positions to lock down the enemy's position (and vice versa) and often outright denying much of a flanking threat.
With key positions taken up like with coordinated teamplay, the gameplay becomes very static and the Stalingrad loses much of its weaknesses it has in randoms/ranked, while excelling with its strength as its railguns allow for deadly crossfires if anyone gets exposed.

Extremely boring for the game as an e-sport is what it is.

As for Petro, at least it has less reliable guns and a much shorter radar duration, making any sneaky pushes less likely to be punished outright, unlike the Stalingrad who can simply lock down a position.

[Lootboxer]

12 minutes ago, Hirohito said:

As for Petro, at least it has less reliable guns and a much shorter radar duration, making any sneaky pushes less likely to be punished outright, unlike the Stalingrad who can simply lock down a position.

Well, in one game RAIN was stomped by 2BBs and 6 Petros. Short duration radar when combined with a chaining, quick reload and 12km range gets a whole new meaning of a radar spam. 

Hopefully it will not be a new meta and a counter will be found. 

[fumtu]

43 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Nerfs to Smolensk and Colbert were just covered as "general changes" since no techtree ship got changed apart from those 2.

Atleast thats how i see it. Those were direct nerfs to those 2 ships. I mean, they didnt nerf Wooster down to 16mm armor despite being a CL

 

You are probably right for Smolensk and Colbert but that still doesn't make statement that WG never directly nerfed T10 any less true. WG did make distinction between CLs with DD guns and CLs with 6inch guns, with clear exception of RN CLs. Both Smolensk and Colbert, which might or might not needed this nerf, got, almost, the same armour sheme just like for example Wooster and, later, Nevsky also got consistent amour scheme with 25mm bow, stern and upper belt, and 30mm deck. So you can considered it as you like but technicaly it is a general change and not a nerf to those specific ships. It would be same if WG, because of SG, nerf all T10 SC on the same way.

 

11 minutes ago, Thorsvald said:

Giulio Cesare, vampire, belfast, kamikaze, T61, Kutuzov, Gremlin, Impregnator ...

 

If you are already listing ships removed from store as they are considered OP, than don't forget to list Soviet ones.

[Ronchabale]

Yeah Smolensk..

Apart from that I dont think nerfing ships is good for the game, people invest a lot if time and possibly money too in ships just to have them nerfed into oblivion because of some whiny  that dont know how to avoid or counter these ships

Better buffing some of the worst powercreeped ships

Also put more work into testing new stuff before releasing insane ships

[Thorsvald]

6 minutes ago, fumtu said:

 

You are probably right for Smolensk and Colbert but that still doesn't make statement that WG never directly nerfed T10 any less true. WG did make distinction between CLs with DD guns and CLs with 6inch guns, with clear exception of RN CLs. Both Smolensk and Colbert, which might or might not needed this nerf, got, almost, the same armour sheme just like for example Wooster and, later, Nevsky also got consistent amour scheme with 25mm bow, stern and upper belt, and 30mm deck. So you can considered it as you like but technicaly it is a general change and not a nerf to those specific ships. It would be same if WG, because of SG, nerf all T10 SC on the same way.

 

 

If you are already listing ships removed from store as they are considered OP, than don't forget to list Soviet ones.

I don't forget soviet ones, but not making a whine on every soviet ship forgetting every other ship at this game.

You have an example on slava issue, herds of people whining about slava, wg get slava nerfed. Wg take a Slava disguised in other flag at tier 8, nobody cares.

 

What 'bout enterprise?

[DFens_666]

24 minutes ago, fumtu said:

with clear exception of RN CLs.

 

If i can make exceptions to the rule, then i can say everything is a global change

F.e. "all T9 BBs will get [insert change here] except [insert all BBs except the one you want to nerf]"

Thats pretty much the issue i have. If they would have buffed RN CLs to 25mm atleast, then i could say, yes ok, its consistent now. But since they didnt...

And i believe they only said its a global change to be on the safe side.

 

[fumtu]

10 minutes ago, Thorsvald said:

I don't forget soviet ones, but not making a whine on every soviet ship forgetting every other ship at this game.

 

Nobody is forgetting them but the way you listed those ships it looked like all OP ships were actually not Soviet. Which is kind of true but Soviets have more removed ships from store than any other nation. So there is a trend there.

 

10 minutes ago, Thorsvald said:

You have an example on slava issue, herds of people whining about slava, wg get slava nerfed. Wg take a Slava disguised in other flag at tier 8, nobody cares.

 

If you talking about Champagne, people did complain but on the other hand, that ship never reached efficiency of the Slava.

 

10 minutes ago, Thorsvald said:

What 'bout enterprise?

 

Maybe look into thread from the last T8 Ranked season to see what people think about Enty?

[fumtu]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

If i can make exceptions to the rule, then i can say everything is a global change

F.e. "all T9 BBs will get [insert change here] except [insert all BBs except the one you want to nerf]"

Thats pretty much the issue i have. If they would have buffed RN CLs to 25mm atleast, then i could say, yes ok, its consistent now. But since they didnt...

And i believe they only said its a global change to be on the safe side.

 

 

I really don't understand what is your point? Please show me a DevBlog where WG is listing specific nerf that target Smolensk alone after its release? Or any other T10 premium ship.

 

I agree with you that WG probably did intended to nerf Smolensk or Colbert or both with those changes to IFHE but that was still a general changes nerf. You can considered it as you like but it doesn't change a fact.

 

And there will always be exceptions to the rule.

[Animalul2012]

NO! STOP with this russian bias nonsense! Stalingrad and petro shine if the enemy does not. WHERE ARE THE OUTRAGE regarding THUNDERER,OHIO AND SHIKISHIMA? Point and click adventure ships. What is so OP about these 2? That it can citadel BB some BBs below 14km? What happens if he/she just presses that magic Q or E button? The magic from stalin and petro its gone. WHY are you not complaining about MVR,kleber,ohio,thunderer,des moines,salem,benham,massachusests,georgia,shikishima,kitakaze,kamikaze,belfast? When there is demand for a nerf it has to be always a soviet ship of course not the RN 63% point and click adventure,when there is demand for a buff NO it has to be those japanese BB that deals over 12k damage with 2 shells and does not give a crap about any sort of angling or maybe those 55 knots see the world destroyer, NAH it is not like the FIRST SOVIET T10 SHIP NEEDS ANY BLOODY BUFFS.NO that ship is FINE.

[DFens_666]

22 minutes ago, fumtu said:

I really don't understand what is your point?

 

Im just disagreeing with WG calling it a global change, when it only hit 2 premium ships.

No Cruisers got their armor nerfed, if they had thicker armor prior to the change (IJN midtiers f.e.). Only Smolensk and Colbert got their armor nerfed. Mind you, im not argueing against the nerf, atleast for Smolensk it was deserved. Alltho id have prefered raising the citadel instead to make it more accessable. I think people often assume overpens are citadel overpens, while they were actually not hitting the citadel at all.

If they would have nerfed Smolensk on its own, i wouldnt have complained either.

[VeteranGamer84]

Quote

Nerf Stalingrad

 

Stop it and go get yourself a Stalin instead of nerfing this hard earned ship. Stalingrad is the only RU battlecruiser I play and then I read a player who is asking to nerf it.