Coop games are "almost unplayable

[Van_Bazel]

First

A big thank you  to the team to be able to do a lot of missions in coop .

Now the second.

Lately i see and get a lot of comments that there a most of the time to manny DD's in coop games and it becomes very hard for especially BB- and CA players to get some  credits and or kills.(DD rush to enemy and wait behind island for the bots).

Cant u put the same restriction like u did for CV's but than for DD's in the game so that there a Maximum 2 dd in a battle (now my average is +- 3 every game)?

Rest a shure i am not the only player that wants a sollution for this.

Kr from Flandres -Still Belgium

Van Bazel

[ColonelPete]

Load HE and blast enemy DD.

[Figment]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Load HE and blast enemy DD.

Read his posts, respond again.

 

 

 

Coop games arn't that fun because there's no challenges, so most the time I simply don't play them.  I mean, what's fun about a guaranteed win? I did play some Coop matches with Hatsuharu last week though for the torp missions and found most the time cruisers and BBs snipe my targets before the torps hit.  But yes, the bots are so dumb they're just torp bait. So I don't really agree with the "there are too many DDs", the issues are with the bots.

[BielayaSmert]

DDs OP!

 

Nerf it!!

[Padds01]

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Load HE and blast enemy DD.

why? your hoping they will torp your dd's and give you a chance to get a kill or two (or citadel hits or torp hits or w/e you need to grind)

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Figment said:

Read his posts, respond again.

Same response.

 

Adapt. Overcome. Enjoy.

Just now, Padds01 said:

why? your hoping they will torp your dd's and give you a chance to get a kill or two (or citadel hits or torp hits or w/e you need to grind)

Why wait for a chance for a kill when you can sink the DD?

[Van_Bazel]

11 minutes ago, Figment said:

Read his posts, respond again.

 

 

 

Coop games arn't that fun because there's no challenges, so most the time I simply don't play them.  I mean, what's fun about a guaranteed win? I did play some Coop matches with Hatsuharu last week though for the torp missions and found most the time cruisers and BBs snipe my targets before the torps hit.  But yes, the bots are so dumb they're just torp bait. So I don't really agree with the "there are too many DDs", the issues are with the bots.

Well everybody does what he likes not?

And some things u as not coop players probably dont know : The bots always hit , the first or second  volley u get hit u  fire etc etc.

It is not a discussion  if i like coop and u dont .

I only pointed out some this i see and hear during my small exp of 15000+ coop battles.

[Molly_Delaney]

I wondered where all the DDs had gone, guess you got all the competent ones and I got the ones who couldn't hit the side of a barn from the inside!!!!

 

Used to be able to leave the bot DDs to human DDs and just citadel cruisers & battleships, but now I have to hit DDs at range with BB guns to not be 4 ships down in minutes......

 

Does make learning to shoot accurately quite easy though due to plenty of practice....

[Figment]

23 minutes ago, Van_Bazel said:

Well everybody does what he likes not?

And some things u as not coop players probably dont know : The bots always hit , the first or second  volley u get hit u  fire etc etc.

It is not a discussion  if i like coop and u dont .

I only pointed out some this i see and hear during my small exp of 15000+ coop battles.

The bots hardly ever hit if you're faced away from them and wiggle your butt. If you show your broadside, they are likely to hit, because you present a big silhouette, though if you sail away from them at an angle, most their shots will fall short since they don't lead very well.

 

You'd think after 15.000 coop battles you'd have noticed that.

 

I don't care whether or not you like a mode for braindead people, if you're happy to bully bots that do the same thing every match and want to feel good about a guaranteed 100% win rate score, whatever floats your boat man. Thing is, the problem isn't with the amount of DDs on your side. It's with the bots being too easy a target. You're blaming humans for their opposition being poorly programmed.

[Figment]

28 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Same response.

 

Adapt. Overcome. Enjoy.

His issue is not with enemy bots. It's with human DDs, so his allies, those DDs on HIS side... So no amount of HE fired at enemy DDs (as you propose) will fix his problem, because his issue is that he can't get within range or has time to fire at enemies and do damage before the match is over...

[beercrazy]

most coop games I play are balls to the wall load HE for first salvos till I know I can get citadels with the AP

coop games are mostly extremely quick and very easy to do well in and the only ones I feel last too long are when a cv is in game and as such I don't sit around at islands ect waiting for enemy instead its quick blast game

[ColonelPete]

Just now, Figment said:

His issue is not with enemy bots. It's with human DDs, so his allies, those DDs on HIS side... 

Which results in facing many enemy DD, which he can sink...

 

Does even more relative damage than shooting at angled BB.

[Figment]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Which results in facing many enemy DD, which he can sink...

 

Does even more relative damage than shooting at angled BB.

Typically those are the first to die to human DD guns/torps because those bots rush out in front and even ignore their own smoke, sail in a straight line past your smoke and thus are easy torp targets. >.> If there's four friendly DDs, there's four enemy DDs, each DD will pick off one or two to avoid bots spotting them through the enemy DDs, so there's typically none left.

[beercrazy]

4 minutes ago, Figment said:

His issue is not with enemy bots. It's with human DDs, so his allies, those DDs on HIS side... So no amount of HE fired at enemy DDs (as you propose) will fix his problem, because his issue is that he can't get within range or has time to fire at enemies and do damage before the match is over...

he is actually asking for restrictions being put on dds to allow him to get more damage and people have told him how to do that without nerfing the dds by making them wait in battle que longer than other players

the dds are already punished as a lot of them have long torpedo load times which restricts their damage output at the start and they have to wait upto 2 mins for a load of torps before engaging

he obviously is a bb ca player and wants longer for damage and as such he should play random or scenario battles for the extra xp and longer games

 

coop is very good now to what it was and Is even easier than ever now the enemy don't auto dodge torps like they used to do

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Figment said:

Typically those are the first to die to human DD guns/torps because those bots rush out in front and even ignore their own smoke, sail in a straight line past your smoke and thus are easy torp targets. >.> If there's four friendly DDs, there's four enemy DDs, each DD will pick off one or two to avoid bots spotting them through the enemy DDs, so there's typically none left.

I wonder how I manage in Co-Op to sink DD in BB then...

 

And no, most DD save their torps for cruisers or BB. When you launch them at DD, you cannot take out bigger ships and sinking DD with guns is most of the time quicker than using torps.

[Figment]

16 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

he is actually asking for restrictions being put on dds to allow him to get more damage

That's what I said. He thinks he's entitled to targets that DDs clean up before he gets to them.

16 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

and people have told him how to do that without nerfing the dds by making them wait in battle que longer than other players

No, "they" (one person, Colonel Pete) didn't... He just told him to shoot DDs with HE, while the complaint is that he can't get to shooting bigger targets because he claims that by that time they're in reach, they're already dead at the hands of his allies.

[beercrazy]

1 minute ago, Figment said:

That's what I said. He thinks he's entitled to targets that DDs clean up before he gets to them.

No, "they" (one person, Colonel Pete) didn't... He just told him to shoot DDs with HE, while the complaint is that he can't get to shooting bigger targets because he claims that by that time they're in reach, they're already dead at the hands of his allies.

if he cant shoot anything because they have already been killed then he needs to learn to actually advance rather than sit at the back

I have no problems getting 100k damage games in a bb or cruiser when in coop so I cannot for the life of me see what his problem is other than hes a player that wants it all his way and if that means nerf dds then so be it

we cant all get what we want in this game even if we feel we should

[Figment]

14 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I wonder how I manage in Co-Op to sink DD in BB then...

 

And no, most DD save their torps for cruisers or BB. When you launch them at DD, you cannot take out bigger ships and sinking DD with guns is most of the time quicker than using torps.

Of course, but DDs can get there first in close range combat and I at least don't usualy leave much to fire at for other ships, whether it is with torps or guns, you should win that quickly and easily before you move on. It's not like those torps won't reload within 30 to 75s... I usualy kill at least 2+ ships in coop.

 

I mean, if you launch them at DD, you'll start a timer of about a minute or less, it's not like most BBs are within proper range at that time already since they lag a dozen km behind DDs.

Both methods are quick. Whether you can afford it largely depends on how fast your torps reload, whether there's other stuff to fire at and whether you take your time. But since you can kill a Pensacola in a single torp spread of three Hatsu torps, it's not like you need your full complement available all the time "just in case" either. These matches are far too controlled to worry about not having torps available, because you will have them.

[Van_Bazel]

29 minutes ago, Figment said:

His issue is not with enemy bots. It's with human DDs, so his allies, those DDs on HIS side... So no amount of HE fired at enemy DDs (as you propose) will fix his problem, because his issue is that he can't get within range or has time to fire at enemies and do damage before the match is over...

Ty alteast 1 with brains.

But if i have the choise to play with my ships (realy go ahaed on the map ) or i hide tactickly behind a island (just watch streams ) than i know what i do.

I personaly dont like players who look down at coop players . Wel dont like is the wrong word,pitty is more accurate.

I wont answer anymore to this "person" who thinks he is better than other history showed what to expect of thoose "humans.

[IanH755]

In Co-Op you press the W key for full speed and rarely touch Left/Right if you're in a BB. Unless you get close then the enemy bots will already have been killed by the humans so the closer you get and the faster you get there then the better chance you have to getting anything done.

 

Think of Co-Op more like 1 human vs 8 humans to get the biggest score in the shortest time rather than as a "team" game. Be selfish, be hyper-aggressive, take every single shot you can, charge in and get busy hammering the bots because PvP tactics of hanging back doesn't work in Co-Op as faster/closer humans will devastate the bots before you get any meaningful work done in the 5 min average game.

[Figment]

3 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

if he cant shoot anything because they have already been killed then he needs to learn to actually advance rather than sit at the back

I have no problems getting 100k damage games in a bb or cruiser when in coop so I cannot for the life of me see what his problem is other than hes a player that wants it all his way and if that means nerf dds then so be it

we cant all get what we want in this game even if we feel we should

Agreed. I think I usualy bottom out at 50-60K damage starting at tier II-III, at higher tiers damage dealt is likely well over 80-90K. :/ I mean, it's largely just about getting a couple citadel hits on cruisers or maybe sink a CV or BB to reach that damage potential within just a few salvo's.

[Dutchy_2019]

Well, this is one of those two sides to the issue problems:

 

Side of the OP:

 

- DD's hiding behind islands, or at least do NOTHING to aid in taking out the DD (or multiple DD's) leaving that to the BB's and cruisers.

- When BB or cruiser has (nearly) eliminated DD, do-nothing DD pops up, kills the DD, and torp rushes the enemy cruiser and/or BB.

 

Result: BB takes the risks, might take heavy damage (including getting killed if he is confronted with multiple DD's) and the DD reaps the rewards:

 

Side of some DD players (and apparently those attacking OP):

 

- DD advances, takes the risks and is supposed to take out DD

- Cruisers and BB's give little support, and pretty much wait for DD to get killed.

- When DD is eliminated they advance, and with a little luck they will also do everything to block torp lines of DD's (or make sure that they are in the line if torp misses target) hoping the DD will hold his torps as a result.

 

I have seen PLENTY of both types of behaviour in Co-op, playing all kinds of classes myself.

[Figment]

8 minutes ago, Van_Bazel said:

Ty alteast 1 with brains.

But if i have the choise to play with my ships (realy go ahaed on the map ) or i hide tactickly behind a island (just watch streams ) than i know what i do.

I personaly dont like players who look down at coop players . Wel dont like is the wrong word,pitty is more accurate.

I wont answer anymore to this "person" who thinks he is better than other history showed what to expect of thoose "humans.

It's not so much looking down as it is wondering what the fun of it is. It gets boring really fast for me, I mean if your team consists of some bots, half the enemy bots will ram your bots because they're THAT poorly programmed. If you play low tier coop, the enemy bots will just be sitting dead still missing your bots inside a cap zone. You can just broadside them one by one. There's no challenge to that and I can't imagine people not wanting a challenge because I see no entertainment value in that.

 

One might as well burn ants and claim the winrate is all your hard work and you've never been defeated by the opposition, yet.

[HansRoaming]

1 hour ago, Van_Bazel said:

First

A big thank you  to the team to be able to do a lot of missions in coop .

Now the second.

Lately i see and get a lot of comments that there a most of the time to manny DD's in coop games and it becomes very hard for especially BB- and CA players to get some  credits and or kills.(DD rush to enemy and wait behind island for the bots).

Cant u put the same restriction like u did for CV's but than for DD's in the game so that there a Maximum 2 dd in a battle (now my average is +- 3 every game)?

Rest a shure i am not the only player that wants a sollution for this.

Kr from Flandres -Still Belgium

Van Bazel

Would be good if the bots got smarter as they tier up, not so much leroying into into players.

[Dutchy_2019]

7 minutes ago, beercrazy said:

if he cant shoot anything because they have already been killed then he needs to learn to actually advance rather than sit at the back

I have no problems getting 100k damage games in a bb or cruiser when in coop so I cannot for the life of me see what his problem is other than hes a player that wants it all his way and if that means nerf dds then so be it

we cant all get what we want in this game even if we feel we should

 

I play mostly Co-op, generally advance with my BB, but if the human DD's play like OP describes, and they are there, your damage total often is f-ed from the very start. Because it will be YOU who has to take out the DD's (and slow your advance) to avoid getting torped to (nearly) death. While the hiding human DD players wait until the DD has been killed (regularly actually stealing the kill) and then move in for the juicy targets. And yes, I am saying this as a Co-op BB player who considers in higher tiers a game with less than 90-100k damage a bad game (I think my Co-op record stands at 270k (on NA)).