High Explosive shells....

[Ladindell]

So, if anyone WORKING at WG and WoWs could adress this I'd be delighted.

DId it ever occur to you that adding battleships that are brawlers is rather pointless as the game is today. "Why?" you ask. Well, before I can get close and personal with Pommern, GK, Bismarck, Georgia, (and so on). I am most of the time burned down to a crisp. Even if I go for a ship and captain anti-fire build, I find myself sitting in a burning steel carcass, more often than not, unable to return fire as these fire staters sits behind cover or in smoke and have a jolly good time in safety. Sure, I could wait until a few enemies have been dealth with but during that period, I get reprimanded by team mates that I am useless, etc. Most likely reported by these people. And if you have a anti-fire build, you cant have a secondaries build, just not enough points for that.

For me, this is slowly killing the fun of the game, so my question to WG is - Are you looking at adressing the HE effectivness or otherwise making either the fires less effective or add some other way to handle fires and survive longer? Limit HE shells to DDs and CAs perhaps?

 

o7

[AgarwaenME]

Fire is LESS a threat now than ever before in the history of this game. What kills brawling is BBs too afraid of OTHER BBS AP.

 

And those ships you say it "in safety".. uniformly have WAY LOWER survival rates.

[HaachamaShipping]

That's why you first join the normal meta of mid to long range, until you see your opportunity for a proper push that isn't easily countered by focused fire. You may consider it killing your fun, but if GK could just push in your face reliably with no considerations for what the enemy team is doing, that'd be broken af, as it'd imply that there's no counter to it and most ships cannot deal with a GK that close unless you got torps.

[ColonelPete]

21 minutes ago, Ladindell said:

So, if anyone WORKING at WG and WoWs could adress this I'd be delighted.

DId it ever occur to you that adding battleships that are brawlers is rather pointless as the game is today. "Why?" you ask. Well, before I can get close and personal with Pommern, GK, Bismarck, Georgia, (and so on). I am most of the time burned down to a crisp. Even if I go for a ship and captain anti-fire build, I find myself sitting in a burning steel carcass, more often than not, unable to return fire as these fire staters sits behind cover or in smoke and have a jolly good time in safety. Sure, I could wait until a few enemies have been dealth with but during that period, I get reprimanded by team mates that I am useless, etc. Most likely reported by these people. And if you have a anti-fire build, you cant have a secondaries build, just not enough points for that.

For me, this is slowly killing the fun of the game, so my question to WG is - Are you looking at adressing the HE effectivness or otherwise making either the fires less effective or add some other way to handle fires and survive longer? Limit HE shells to DDs and CAs perhaps?

 

o7

My german BB disagree with you:

My GK has no secondary setup...

 

It is all about positioning and timing. When you push into 4 enemies, it does not even matter if they use HE or AP.

[Beastofwar]

Fire nerfs are incoming with the captain skill rework....but it won't save you when you run into a wall of enemies that all focus you with HE. That is the problem of Random matches : the first that pops into view gets it from most of 12 enemies ...

 

In other modes fire mechanic is not that broken at all. It just the masses of randoms that makes for unsurvivable fire spams when you are ahead of the rest. And actually no build can withstand it when focussed by multiple enemies.

 

 

 

 

[Aixin]

The only problems I have with fire or he is monquerors and Thunderer. Ships that literally everyone performs OK in Cuz [edited] he gives you 10k +2 fires no matter how you angle. Even if you dodge its common that a shell hits you and 50% is a fire then. And all other bb players that a shooting he without any reason whatsoever. Even at broadside cruisers. They should just remove all he from bbs (buff conquerors ap so it actually works.) thunderer will still be a godlike ship. All he problems solved then. Even a Smolensk spam feels nicer then a thunderer or conquerer shooting he at you. 

[DFens_666]

12 minutes ago, Aixin said:

They should just remove all he from bbs

 

Yes please, so much this.

It will automatically fix Fires, because the couple of Cruisers in a game wont oversaturate the DCP from BBs. But if you add 2-3 BBs who also shoot nothing but HE, causing atleast one fire every time, you end up with a horrible fire-meta.

 

They might give them a weaker form of SAP to compensate, or let them have HE with 0% firechance. Either way it will be situational agains DDs, some tanky Cruisers and bow-on BBs, but not the retarded no-brain crap we have now, where its better than to look at a target where your AP does something.

BBs dont need fires, if they can deal >10k HE salvos on other ships. Its like having a cake, and eating a bucket of icecream on the side.

[ollonborre]

12 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

or let them have HE with 0% firechance.

I mean even with this they would still do as you say bonkers amount of damage on unsaturated targets anyways and break half your stuff due to splash. So yeah I would not be opposed to just pure damage without fires.

[lup3s]

2 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

And actually no build can withstand it when focussed by multiple enemies.

 

Truth! (though some can survive a tad longer than others)

 

Sadly this focus is rarely seen through in Random Battles; quite often I see ships slip away and survive with just a (very) small portion of health.

[Ladindell]

Indeed, so the question is if the game should be balanced and developed for clan battles or for the bigger audience of random battle players. Looking on how WoT is today, I'd say that they are focusing on developing the game for the pro players that excell in Clan battles. The business model is that the big group of "regular" players are to pay for the elite players enjoyment.
I've played WoWs since close beta, had a few vacations from the game over the years and I feel that the game has never been this boring as it is now. 

[lameoll]

1 hour ago, Ladindell said:

. Looking on how WoT is today, I'd say that they are focusing on developing the game for the pro players that excell in Clan battles. The business model is that the big group of "regular" players are to pay for the elite players enjoyment.

is it opposite day? 

[Itwastuesday]

How I've experienced this : 

 

T7 : much brawling

T8 : still a lot of brawling

T9 : some brawling

T10 : maximum snipefest kite to the next map

 

Thunderer, 20km torp soups, balansk, supercruisers, AP bomb carriers and so on and so forth. Doesn't seem like there's much room for pushing in and brawling with something as gigantic, unwieldy and inadequately armored as the Kurfurst. And when you do, you'll notice that maximum secondaries don't actually do anything. They don't hit a destroyer, won't damage a battleship or a soviet cruiser, won't be able to track a target that smokes up... What you're actually doing is trying to find an optimal firing solution for a 12 rifle broadside. 

[Yedwy]

16 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Yes please, so much this.

It will automatically fix Fires, because the couple of Cruisers in a game wont oversaturate the DCP from BBs. But if you add 2-3 BBs who also shoot nothing but HE, causing atleast one fire every time, you end up with a horrible fire-meta.

 

They might give them a weaker form of SAP to compensate, or let them have HE with 0% firechance. Either way it will be situational agains DDs, some tanky Cruisers and bow-on BBs, but not the retarded no-brain crap we have now, where its better than to look at a target where your AP does something.

BBs dont need fires, if they can deal >10k HE salvos on other ships. Its like having a cake, and eating a bucket of icecream on the side.

Yep, IMHO - ammo types per class...

 

BBs (and all CCs/LCs/BCs/whatnot >256mm)

1. Standard (long) fuse AP

2. Short fuse AP

 

CAs (160-256 mm)

1. AP

2. SAP or HE with low FC as in 5% or less (can be national flavour)

 

CLs (100-159 mm)

1. AP

2. HE

 

DDs

1. AP

2. SAP/HE (can be national flavour)

 

Also we need cap skills or modules that changes torpedo speed/range ratios both ways ie 60kt/10km base torps can be upgraded to say 75kt/7km torps or 50kt/15km torps (this is just an example real numbers are a matter for testing) so one can have more mileage from an indibidual ship...

 

Also no stalinium slipstream russian shells and no thermonuclear HE on anything...

[Padds01]

its not just HE its all the map design, rewards ,  everything pushes the game to be a long range camp off , hug the island spam and run away its teh correct way to play according to how its set up , unfortunately tehy seem to insist on only having one game mode and not making pve viable , so you either keep playing something you find boring or you stop. because WG are dead set in this direction

[Figment]

20 hours ago, Ladindell said:

So, if anyone WORKING at WG and WoWs could adress this I'd be delighted.

DId it ever occur to you that adding battleships that are brawlers is rather pointless as the game is today. "Why?" you ask. Well, before I can get close and personal with Pommern, GK, Bismarck, Georgia, (and so on). I am most of the time burned down to a crisp. Even if I go for a ship and captain anti-fire build, I find myself sitting in a burning steel carcass, more often than not, unable to return fire as these fire staters sits behind cover or in smoke and have a jolly good time in safety. Sure, I could wait until a few enemies have been dealth with but during that period, I get reprimanded by team mates that I am useless, etc. Most likely reported by these people. And if you have a anti-fire build, you cant have a secondaries build, just not enough points for that.

For me, this is slowly killing the fun of the game, so my question to WG is - Are you looking at adressing the HE effectivness or otherwise making either the fires less effective or add some other way to handle fires and survive longer? Limit HE shells to DDs and CAs perhaps?

 

o7

Just a question, have you considered when you press the repair button?

 

Because if you do so like a lot of people do immediately after catching fire, you'll not be able to stop fires for quite some time and burn down (even the next HE salvo might set you on fire again). This is why I always inform my fellow players when an enemy I set on fire put the fires out (ESPECIALLY if it's clear it's from a repair button), because it makes them extra vulnerable for new fires for the foreseeable future: any fires resulting from hitting them with HE after 12-15s of putting out the fire (repair active) will likely result in 40s or more of burning. So if you can then set two, three fires, that's going to be killing.

 

If however, you first use a heal after you've taken some fire and save the repair for if it gets any worse, you're unlikely to take much fire damage at all.

 

I personally don't stop fires unless:

A. I don't expect new HE or flooding threats within the next minute or so, so it'd be pointless to let it burn. For instance, if I'm about to go behind cover, there's no reason to let the fire burn.

B. I can't spare the HP and need time before the next heal can occur and potentially take some direct damage (<6.000 hp on a BB)

C. There are 3 fires going (for one or two fires, you can usualy make due with popping a heal)

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, Ladindell said:

Indeed, so the question is if the game should be balanced and developed for clan battles or for the bigger audience of random battle players. Looking on how WoT is today, I'd say that they are focusing on developing the game for the pro players that excell in Clan battles. The business model is that the big group of "regular" players are to pay for the elite players enjoyment.
I've played WoWs since close beta, had a few vacations from the game over the years and I feel that the game has never been this boring as it is now. 

WoWS at large is balanced around its main battle type: Random battles. It is certainly not balanced around the competitive scene. Competitive gets taken into consideration when it gets very bad, but otherwise, no. But if the focus was pro players in clan battles, not just would CVs need some extreme reworking, but also, you wouldn't have it where certain ships can stay non-meta for years. Ships like Minotaur, Colbert, GK, Worcester all are extreme niche picks that typically don't appear in competitive, but in randoms do fine.

[Bear__Necessities]

Ahhh poor BB’s get burnt and demand more buffs.

 

How about no.

[Itwastuesday]

29 minutes ago, Bear__Necessities said:

Ahhh poor BB’s get burnt and demand more buffs.

 

How about no.

Fine, ok, let's just all maxrange snipe then :)

[Excavatus]

18 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Its like having a cake, and eating a bucket of icecream on the side.

The only mistake I'm seing here is the ice cream is on the side.. it should be on top of the cake! 

 

and when your AP/HE becomes completely useless against a saturated bow tanking BB.. 

Sometimes it only comes to fires.. 

 

But I agree.. the fire chance on RN BBs... STUPID.. really stupid.. and RNGesus is a jerk.. 

- god I have 2 fires.. lets DCP... 

A few moments later... 

Oh, so your DCP Just ended? look at the sky.. you see those HE shells from conqek? 

Here.. have 3 more fires... :) but when you shoot a DCP'ed ship for more than a min.. you get only 1 fire for a duration of 10 seconds.. 

 

RNGesus : Trolling better than anyone since 2015!

 

[ColonelPete]

38 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Fine, ok, let's just all maxrange snipe then :)

Feel free when you do not mind driving your winrate into the ground...

You will be always welcome on the enemy team

[Itwastuesday]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Feel free when you do not mind driving your winrate into the ground...

You will be always welcome on the enemy team

 

Well since both teams will do that what actually happens is who has the bestest RNG and bestest sniping battleship and aim wins

[ColonelPete]

12 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

 

Well since both teams will do that what actually happens is who has the bestest RNG and bestest sniping battleship and aim wins

I will not do it. And I will take care of the enemies cruisers and DD.

And I am pretty sure there are enough BB players out there, who know how to play their class, who will gladly snatch the win from your team.

[Hirohito]

22 hours ago, Ladindell said:

So, if anyone WORKING at WG and WoWs could adress this I'd be delighted.

DId it ever occur to you that adding battleships that are brawlers is rather pointless as the game is today. "Why?" you ask. Well, before I can get close and personal with Pommern, GK, Bismarck, Georgia, (and so on). I am most of the time burned down to a crisp. Even if I go for a ship and captain anti-fire build, I find myself sitting in a burning steel carcass, more often than not, unable to return fire as these fire staters sits behind cover or in smoke and have a jolly good time in safety. Sure, I could wait until a few enemies have been dealth with but during that period, I get reprimanded by team mates that I am useless, etc. Most likely reported by these people. And if you have a anti-fire build, you cant have a secondaries build, just not enough points for that.

For me, this is slowly killing the fun of the game, so my question to WG is - Are you looking at adressing the HE effectivness or otherwise making either the fires less effective or add some other way to handle fires and survive longer? Limit HE shells to DDs and CAs perhaps?

 

o7

You are playing the brawlers wrong, as others have pointed out.

Secondary builds are fine, but you usually have to forego either Fire Prevention and/or Concealment Expert to spec into secondaries, which limits you for early offense.
Playing US or German BBs, you have to be patient and know when to push.
If you push into close range early on, you will be burned down - but that's hardly the fault of HE spammers, as they are rightfully punishing an overextended BB like they should do in that situation.
Especially regarding the GK, your concealment is horrible to begin with, which means that you cannot disengage safely once you are committed to that push.
This means you have to be very careful if you choose to do so, which is usually in the late game where there are fewer ships with fewer firing angles on you.

Also be mindful of your positioning.
You can be burned down early if you misposition yourself, but at least you can somewhat safely disengage then.
If you commit to a push too early however, you are both mispositioned and unable to disengage, which just leads to an early death.
As for your teammates claiming that you are "useless", I wouldn't trust randoms too much.
But if you frequently get that feedback, it might be that you are either too cautious (playing the "sniping game"), very poorly positioned (at the A or J, 1 or 10 lines, depending on the map), sailing unangled in the open or too aggressive near the caps.

 

TL;DR: If you do get HE spammed and dying to fires early on, you are most likely doing something wrong with your positioning.

[HaachamaShipping]

As far as randoms are concerned, I think the meta isn't too bad. Ships like GK or such still work well, even if you don't camp the map border. After Flamu's silly praise for Pommern, I decided to dust the GK off, given it should be able to do everything better than Pommern, except torp, which aren't integral to the playstyle anyway and it actually works out quite well. Just don't overcommit. Even with secondary spec (+FP), the ship does just fine.

 

Now, is British BB HE an issue? I guess it is. But you know what? It's here to stay and after all the times where I see people defending the most stupid game elements there are, I really don't see an issue why this has priority to be fixed. 

[DFens_666]

51 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Here.. have 3 more fires... :) but when you shoot a DCP'ed ship for more than a min.. you get only 1 fire for a duration of 10 seconds.. 

 

The moment you realize, its always 40% having good "RNG" luck