Is the playerbase rewarded too much?

[loppantorkel]

Is it still a good game for you if the main reason for playing the game are the rewards?

Is WG making a mistake by adding too many goals and gambling mechanics to motivate the players to keep playing?

 

This video made me start thinking.

 

 

I think there's plenty to it. Goals can demotivate players by making the game feel like work instead of enjoyment. It's been brought up before by players feeling burnt out. Maybe giving stuff for playing just isn't a great idea in the end?

 

[DFens_666]

Just today ive said:

Its too many missions again, i dont feel like doing it anymore. Its like crosschecking: This mission requires ship a, the next one ship b and then you have tiers x,y and z.

Anchorage directive + anniversary snowflakes would have been enough. But we also got a new Campaign, Kots missions, Coal missions, another mission for german BBs/ships (one with secondary/MB hits)... did i forget something? Most likely at this point.

 

[dommo77]

10 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Just today ive said:

Its too many missions again, i dont feel like doing it anymore. Its like crosschecking: This mission requires ship a, the next one ship b and then you have tiers x,y and z.

Anchorage directive + anniversary snowflakes would have been enough. But we also got a new Campaign, Kots missions, Coal missions, another mission for german BBs/ships (one with secondary/MB hits)... did i forget something? Most likely at this point.

 

Totally agree, too much of everything. For a player with limited time it's just getting stressful if he sees how much he's missing out. 

[Ashardalon_Dragnipur]

better to have a few good missions with worthwhile rewards

then many many grinds that end up with the same rewards to put on the pile 

current a lot of the missions i currently see and say at the start its not worth the time

playing a game shouldnt be about worth the time, you should want to play for the game itself 

[rage1750]

No.

I still feel spoiled^TM from the PR Christmas mission, I havent complained much about that mission 

[Gnirf]

I have nothing against a variety of missions - many do not care in all things - I rather have to much than too little. Many newer players can not do them all so the massive numbers gives them something.

[Miragetank90]

I honestly don't really care about rewards too much, I just play because I like the sea and big ships, I find them fascinating and it's as simple as that. I also like collecting and the competitive aspect. 

This is the gist of what keeps me here. 

 

I've never played this game and felt: ''This is work''

Though tbf, RB is close. But then, RB is 

 

 

[Molly_Delaney]

Not particularly bothered with rewards, is why I'm not sticking at Ranked beyond the first few levels.

But, to play different ships a certain degree of winning (more rewards than not winning so faster) is necessary.

 

When I first started playing multi-player games (first on lan then online) the only thing you won was 'bragging rights'. This was back on original Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Flight of the Intruder, Fatal Racing, etc..

 

Warships is played for fun, (the fine for blowing up RC ships on a lake is a bit high) this is also why I mostly play co-op which fits how I like to play; fast & aggresive

 

Now, however, I'm actually going to grind through the RN BB line, without spending any real money.....  as a personal challenge.

[22cm]

You know, this probably means that the amount of active players and money spent in game must be decreasing. The rewards are meant to atract or to retain players. 

[albin322]

16 minutes ago, 22cm said:

You know, this probably means that the amount of active players and money spent in game must be decreasing. The rewards are meant to atract or to retain players. 

i think that too, if i take myslef for a example i own so many premiums and tech tree ships now. i dont buy new premiums or hardly put in anymoney anymore. why should i buy a new tier 8 premiujm bb when i dont have enough time to play the once i have ? i got all coal ships and i dont play them very often. so no wg is actully missing out cause i so no reason to spend anymore money on this game.   i mean i got 45 days of premium time and 8k dubs in the sc event.

 

i think the rewards are to high if they want money just saing.

[DanSilverwing]

I'm beginning to miss the days of having an event limited to the span of a single patch, where the "reward"  was a free Premium ship. Even if it wasn't a very good one (except the event we did for the T6 Premium Ship crate was great, I suspect WG only did that because they'd run out of original reward ship designs) it's closer to the MMO reward system of playing for that rare and/or limited character gamers are used to. And then the monthly Hall of Fame that went with it.

 

The latest system, the Dockyard mechanic, misses the mark for engagement. The ships haven't been 'free' and if like me you're not interested in the ship and/or not interested in spending money (and believe me, I did consider shelling out for Anchorage) then there is nothing really worth playing for.

 

The only thing keeping me fully engaged at the moment is finishing the "Strong Willed" campaign, because I slacked too much and am only 80% done with Phase 5, so still lots more to do.

 

The "rewards" I often see then, the dailies, the odd 50k credits, flags, and expendable camos, aren't really a reward for the player. They offer nothing that you can't already get by playing the game, and I see them not as a reward but an inducement to encourage people to play the game more. They are the equivalent of receiving free snacks and drinks from the Casino management to keep you there.

 

What was a nice reward was the free Texas-mission chain we had (shame I'd already shelled out for the Steam DLC offering the same) which could have been bigged-up to a proper event but wasn't. All the old "reward" ships could be recycled as event rewards to appeal to newer players (as per Graf Spee); I wouldn't mind because I'm looking ahead to my next T10 Coal ship. And that is a genuine "reward" for playing the game often, because Coal ships sit in your Port reminding you of your accomplishments.

 

BTW, straying off-topic a bit but reading through the comments reminded me of comments LWM made on the NA forum in a recent discussion.

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/225717-mouses-take-on-the-proposed-skill-changes/?do=findComment&comment=5195893

 

Spoiler

Quote

It is, but it's sadly one backed by data.  You can do everything right and still lose happy customers.  Life happens.  People move on.  They get distracted by something better.  And that's just the perfect, super-happy customers which you're very rarely going to have.  Invariably something is going to go wrong.  It can be big or it could be just the little things that keep adding up. 

 

When I worked in a hobby store, reps I spoke to from Games Workshop explained it similarly.  They actually had numbers for it.  I may be misremembering them now given how long it's been but it was something like:

• For every 100 people that tried a demo of Warhammer run by a trained employee, only 1 would buy it.
• For every 10 people that bought it, only 1 would migrate from that initial purchase and buy an army.
• For every 10 that bought an army, only 1 would stick around for more than a couple of years and continue to reinvest.
•  

Thus they focused their energies on the recruitment and conversion (turning people into paying customers).  As nice as it was for them when people started collecting something else, they saw a lot more profit when someone new joined up.  Businesses built around catering to veterans have to be really savvy and will spend tons more energy for fewer returns.  This also comes with the increased risk of having your existing customers alienating new ones.  The same holds true for CCGs.  It's also true for video games. 

 

Like, say I quit being a CC and producing content.  The only ships I'm going to buy are going to be the ones that interest me.  Even with my whalish habits, I'm not going to pick up very many of them.  I don't need doubloons.  They can't sell me on premium time.  Wargaming efforts to keep me spending require a lot of energy.  Contrast that with someone just getting into the game that sees premium time as a good way to accelerate their progress in the game they're enjoying.  I'm a lost cause compared to the easy money that's out there.

Quote

The truth here is more complicated than that.  You have to look at what the money is being spent on and how much they cost to produce.

 

• Selling premium time is probably going to be the most profitable.  It's not a product they're selling, it's just time.
• Doubloons are next.  Again, they cost nothing to produce.  Their primary use is to convert XP from one form to the next, buy slots, train commanders, etc.
• Next up will be consumables.  This has a small overhead cost.  This includes everything from camos, signals, collectibles and the infamous loot boxes.
• After that we start getting into things like premium ships.  These have a very significant overhead cost.

 

A note on loot boxes and premium ships -- if these are part of a collaboration, there's doubtless going to be money changing hands between companies, so less profit for Wargaming.

So regardless of the time a player has spent, where they spend their money matters more.  As it turns out, newer players are more likely to spend money on things like premium time and doubloons (a big money maker).  Veterans are more likely to gravitate towards premium ships and consumables (though they still will venture up for doubloons every now and then). 

Just FYI, not wishing to de-rail OP's thread.

 

[albin322]

3 minutes ago, DanSilverwing said:

 

What was a nice reward was the free Texas-mission chain we had (shame I'd already shelled out for the Steam DLC offering the same) which could have been bigged-up to a proper event but wasn't. All the old "reward" ships could be recycled as event rewards to appeal to newer players (as per Graf Spee); I wouldn't mind because I'm looking ahead to my next T10 Coal ship. And that is a genuine "reward" for playing the game often, because Coal ships sit in your Port reminding you of your accomplishments.

 

Yea i enjoyed getting those lowtier premium ship as well. i loved the random tier 6 ship that was great ment you always got a ship you did not have. and if they are going to recycle old premiums witch i think is a good idea, then please dont give the players who already have it silver................................

[Datz68]

There is lots of misions and rewards... everything is doable.

I recommend to everyone with limited time as me to resist to have everything, play for fun. Pick easy rewards. I have lots of flags, camos, only credit is low as i started to keep ships after grinding to next tier... 

[FlyingBender]

Not every body want all. Someone can be interested in Anchorage, but other only in campaign (and that is not temporal). Only set priorities.

[MRGTB]

I've been doing the shipyard missions like you say for the extra things you can pick up doing it. Just got the 3 day prem extra from it. Not that bothered though about getting

2 hours ago, albin322 said:

i mean i got 45 days of premium time and 8k dubs in the sc event.

 

i think the rewards are to high if they want money just saing.

Well premium time is something that helps keep you playing. As you know with prem time active, that you grind credits faster... so you're more incline to play more often while having active prem time (so you don't just waste it away by not playing). So there's method in their madness, as far as giving prem time away for free as prizes is concerned.

[MRGTB]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Just today ive said:

Its too many missions again, i dont feel like doing it anymore. Its like crosschecking: This mission requires ship a, the next one ship b and then you have tiers x,y and z.

Anchorage directive + anniversary snowflakes would have been enough. But we also got a new Campaign, Kots missions, Coal missions, another mission for german BBs/ships (one with secondary/MB hits)... did i forget something? Most likely at this point.

 

Done that way to encourage people to get more ships needed to do the directives... be it prem or silver ships. I don't have a problem with it because I must have about 30 + ships in port now of different classes and nations.

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

4 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Is it still a good game for you if the main reason for playing the game are the rewards?

Is WG making a mistake by adding too many goals and gambling mechanics to motivate the players to keep playing?

 

This video made me start thinking.

 

 

I think there's plenty to it. Goals can demotivate players by making the game feel like work instead of enjoyment. It's been brought up before by players feeling burnt out. Maybe giving stuff for playing just isn't a great idea in the end?

 

Hey, I wouldn't worry too much about rewards.
When WG inflict multiple CVs per team games on us and then reintroduce Kitakami (you'll enjoy that game when Kita works with other torp boats) it's made me start wondering why I should renew my premium time.

On the plus side, at least I'm no longer paying WG to have "fun"

And the last game, just to remind me to not part with my cash, AP bombs and rockets.

[lossi_2018]

I stopped playing for a while now. I'm overworked at work, can't do a repeat at home.

[Butterdoll]

5 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Just today ive said:

Its too many missions again, i dont feel like doing it anymore. Its like crosschecking: This mission requires ship a, the next one ship b and then you have tiers x,y and z.

Anchorage directive + anniversary snowflakes would have been enough. But we also got a new Campaign, Kots missions, Coal missions, another mission for german BBs/ships (one with secondary/MB hits)... did i forget something? Most likely at this point.

 

I resolved that.

I'm only making the collection and getting two containers per day if i'm up to it.

 

[SkollUlfr]

i honestly think bots are the answer to this.

bots that can beat half the playerbase, while acting similarly to players.

 

when i was younger, it was only single player games, and the ones i played most where the ones i 'almost' couldnt beat, and didnt overtly use dirty tricks so that there was that niche to keep learning the mechanics better.

and bots could be the tool for this, by tuning them as an inherent part of balancing teams, so that the one sided stomps go away,

as these are one of the major things that are off-putting about wows. 

 

other than the janky power scaling past t6 that makes the game feel cheap so far as ship and class balance go.

sea vs air counter-play is frustrating due to how the spotting works feels cheap.

and entire system of how radar and spotting make you "just visable no matter what, even through islands" needs a serious rework.

 

unfortunately, too many games supplant "fun" with "habitual behaviour". instead of playing to have fun, a lot of what goes into a game today is based on getting you to do repetitive actions.

[kfa]

8 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Just today ive said:

Its too many missions again, i dont feel like doing it anymore. Its like crosschecking: This mission requires ship a, the next one ship b and then you have tiers x,y and z.

Anchorage directive + anniversary snowflakes would have been enough. But we also got a new Campaign, Kots missions, Coal missions, another mission for german BBs/ships (one with secondary/MB hits)... did i forget something? Most likely at this point.

 

You are partially right but i also noticed myself if there are no missions left to complete (lets say a couple of days before the new patch) i barely play, or i even miss out whole days. So WG must also doing something right 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

10 hours ago, kfa said:

You are partially right but i also noticed myself if there are no missions left to complete (lets say a couple of days before the new patch) i barely play, or i even miss out whole days. So WG must also doing something right 

 

It's similar for me, but I find that quite positive. I am not not playing the game feeling that I would like to play and get additional rewrds for that. I rather feel like the rewards are keeping up a pressure to play because you do not want to miss out on anything that later turns out to be required. I took a break last year and promtly mised out on the Benham, the ship I now so wished I got back then. I also missed the Kuznetsov-commander and had to buy it in the armory.

 

The thing is, this wish to keep up interferes with your decision making and makes you exceed your equilibrium. You would play the game a bit, then do something else. Your willingness to pay for the game would be unaltered. Still you would burden the WG-infrastructure less. Now by exceeding that limit, the game starts having a negative effect. You at some point get fed up.

 

There was this guy back in another clan, who had just nuked his account, cause the game got him so wound up and all the missions delayed him taking a break to a point where he lost it.

 

Another guy was quite active in the game, when his girlfriend at some point gave him an ultimatum. He is married to her today, but he hasn't played the game ever since and subsequently not spent any money on it.

So yeah, maybe less is more.

 

I lately quite enjoy playing the public test server. There are no grinds, I get to play the ships I like. There is no stats, so I can potato as much as I like. No pressure. Ironically without feeling there is a stats page counting every loss, I feel I play better. I take risks, I try new moves. I experiment. Normally, I would feel an obligation to not let my team down and take the safest shortest route to victory. I can't remember when was the last time I rushed the channel on Two Brothers.

 

So yeah, while keeping scores and collecting rewards has its merits, I think it makes the battles increasingly monotonous. The snowflakes are the reason the entire community spams coops. Do we have fun doing it? Hell, no. Would we ever do it if there was no reward? Certainly not. How many players would rank out in these braindead Ranked Seasons, if it wasn't for the rewards? I have experienced calm people getting increasingly toxic over ranking out, just because they want the rewards. I would dump the whole game mode and just do the funny sprints.

[Origin47]

Guys, if you play co-op you can complete full directives in around 3-4 hours. I have done so with 2, maybe 3 directives for Odin.

 

The third directive for Anchorage, the current one, i have already completed 4 sub-stages of it in less than 2 hours, yesterday. The only sub-stage of the current directive which might take me longer is the get 75k xp, because i am only playing co-op (a personal choice).

 

 

[Blackbeards_Nightmare]

Yes, it is too much of everything. The next point is that really bad players don´t have to pay for their bad gameplay and not doing much for the team to win, they just get EP and credits for it.

[Gebe_]

47 minutes ago, Origin47 said:

Guys, if you play co-op you can complete full directives in around 3-4 hours.

So 4 hours of grind each week in the most boring game mode ever? No thanks, I will pass on Anchorage (I'd pass even if there was no extra doubloon cost). I'd rather play at my own leisure and simply for fun.