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LoveZeppelin

Proposal : Radio Jammer (electronic countermeasures "dead zone")

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[JOLLY]
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as per title/

A Jammer consumeable that blocks all shared intel, radar, hydro, PT, RDF, detection indicator, CV spotting.

 

don't google Jammer for pics (NSFW) like I did.

edit :

there has been some confusion among the replies to this topic, mostly I think because not everyone wants to read the OP, preferring to go off the title alone.

This is not a pro/anti radar proposal, but a proposal for a universal change to detection mechanics, with the help of a consumeable "Jammer". The effect would be to create a communications and radio detection dead zone around the jammer, affecting ALL ships, allied and enemy. This would not affect the human eyeball. 

 

Here is a brief history of electronic countermeasures :

 

The first usage in combat of electronic countermeasures was in 1904, by Russian cruisers, to disrupt radio communications between Japanese battleships, thereby disrupting Japanese bombardment of the Russian controlled Port Arthur naval base.

 260px-Fire_of_the_Oil_Depot_Caused_by_Ou

At the start of WW1 in 1914, Goeben and Breslaw escaped British pursuit with the help of electronic countermeasures to disrupt Royal Navy communications, both cruisers found refuge in Turkish waters.

280px-Bundesarchiv_DVM_10_Bild-23-61-15,

During the 1940-41 Blitz on London, the UK employed misdirection of German bombers with false signals (the bombers relied on a network of radio beacons for navigation).

A more detailed article on the history of Electronic Countermeasures can be found here : https://www.rfcafe.com/references/electronics-world/electronic-countermeasures-electronics-world-december-1959.htm

 

Future tech tree releases will need fresh gimmicks and counters to make them interesting to play. At the same time, future tech tree releases have to find searoom in WOWS to avoid being washed onto a lee shore by enemy CV spotting, cruiser radar, dd (and bb) hydro), and of course, reverse Priority Target (oh, i have been targeted, what/who and where could it be?), detection indicator (c.f reverse Priority Target)

My suggestion is a general purpose jammer that would block ALL enemy intel, including radar, ship to ship communications (CV spotting for example), hydro, PT and anything else. 

 

  1. Mounted as a Jammer consumeable
  2. 3 charges
  3. Duration 20 secs
  4. Range 7 km
  5. Reload 120 secs
  6. Tiers 6-10

 

I would like to imagine such a consumeable being useful for a future Italian dd and/or bb tech tree, or perhaps a revision for general existing game mechanics injecting some fizz into development, and some healthy disruption to the game. Instead of smoke, .. jammers!

 

scenario 1 : CV rocket squadron locates enemy dd, drops fighter squadron to perma spot, positions for attack run, calls for allied players to focus fire the dd, 

Jammer activated, dd disappears from minimap, remains visible and attackable by the CV air squadron, but immune to indirect fire from other players.

scenario  2

X Cruiser activates radar on a cap, detects enemy Y, asks for focus fire on Y, target Y activates Jammer and disappears from minimap, can only be targeted by X cruiser if direct line of sight.

scenario 3 : 

BB (Roma for example) is detected within concealment range, BB activates Jammer, no effect until the ship that has detected the BB gets within Jammer range (7 km), Jammer consumeable has only 10 seconds left but for those 10 seconds only the ship (a dd for example) can target the BB, or can see it on the minimap. The attacking dds radio comunications (shared intel, hydro, radar, PR and detection indicators) are all offline/disactivated.

scenario 4 !

X DD sneaks behind island cover close to enemy Y BB on the other side to launch a torp attack, X DD leaves island cover and launches torps. Y BB immediately takes evasive action AND activates Jammer. Y BB suffers major dmg, but survives the encounter because for 20 seconds enemy team allies of X DD are unable to recieve X DD intel and target.

 

What do you think?

Which (if any) future tech tree/nation would be a good fit for this concept?

 

I have looked for previous suggestions of this type on the forum, but have only found one such topic/thread, a year ago, which only concerns radar jamming but which debates the question quite extensively : 

Spoiler
On 6/6/2018 at 12:21 AM, ThePhantomNL said:

Why cant there be a module that is basicly anti radar?

Like a boi kind of module. That when either sonar or radar hits. It can be deployed to give 2  false readings.. that is scrambles the radar.

Because atm there is to much radar in the game. Add something to counter it.

Or a silver filled cloud smoke. So that the radar cant penatrate. But the vis. in those clouds are very limited... do something like that?

 

And yes it used to be used in the ww2

 

Once much is known about enemy radars, they can either be attacked, if they're in range for a precision attack by dive bombers or fighter-bombers, or more commonly they can be disrupted by electronic warfare, which in World War 2 included two main types of counter-measures:

  • Jammers transmit strong radio waves in the same frequency as the RADAR, which saturate the RADAR receiver with signals so much that it can't see the weaker signals of real targets.
  • Chaff (nicknamed "window" by the Royal Air Force) are a cloud of thin lightweight strips of metal cut to a specific size, which can be dispersed from a heavy bomber. These strips are designed to be detected by RADAR and therefore instead of detecting isolated real targets, the RADAR operator sees just a huge cloud.

There are various ways for RADAR operators and designers to partially counter these counter-measures, part by having highly trained and experienced operators, part by technological solutions, and part by direct action, using RADAR detectors installed on fighters to locate and destroy the jammer-carrying aircraft.

 

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13 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

What do you think?

Will not happen.

Was discussed multiple times.

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[JOLLY]
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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Will not happen.

 

submarines

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

 Was discussed multiple times.

Yes.

(once in fact, as Jamming, a year ago and then only concerning Radar, see link to discussion in my OP)


Whatever you think of the probability of WG introducing electronic countermeasures in WOWS, would you approve or disapprove of the idea?

 

 

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[BHSFL]
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It would lower difficulty of using DD.

 

That could make DD more enjoyable to play...... or it could make DD are a rampant plague sinking everything around them.

 

One would say all these anti-DD mechanics were not designed for nothing. They are meant to keep what DD can do in check. That seems necessary for game balance, as DD pack the heaviest anti-ship weapons in game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

It would lower difficulty of using DD.

 

That could make DD more enjoyable to play...... or it could make DD are a rampant plague sinking everything around them.

 

One would say all these anti-DD mechanics were not designed for nothing. They are meant to keep DD in check. That seems necessary for game balance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you are assuming this would be exclusive to dds. Historically, early electronic countermeasures were either land based, or required a large ship (cruiser sized) to accomodate them. What if battleships were given ECM, rather than destroyers?

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3 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

submarines

It will still not happen.

3 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

Whatever you think of the probability of WG introducing electronic countermeasures in WOWS, would you approve or disapprove of the idea?

No. That is like removing radar.

Every ship having that would save their consumable for that.

 

Just now, LoveZeppelin said:

What if battleships were given ECM, rather than destroyers?

Do you really think they need improvement?

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3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Do you really think they need improvement?

my poor Roma, I was traumatized earlier today by a pack of dds.:Smile_sad:

think of future tech tree releases, and how they might fit in the game, without being a repetition of what we already have.

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24 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

But you are assuming this would be exclusive to dds. Historically, early electronic countermeasures were either land based, or required a large ship (cruiser sized) to accomodate them. What if battleships were given ECM, rather than destroyers?

 

Do BB  need that ?

 

Hardcore campers won't accept it, but one of the tasks of a BB ( thick armour and large HP pool ) is to draw some enemy fire off allied far more fragile Cruisers so they may live longer and with that help the team a lot. For this drawing fire off allies BB are awarded ( highest of all classes ) with score for potential damage landing  or passing near them by game design.

 

When you make BB invisible by blocking aircraft radios that are spotting them more fragile Cruiser will be focussed again, and destroyed. While you float there with full HP, but sole survivor in the face of multiple enemies. It does not help a team to win.

 

Could Cruisers use that ? Probably much more usefull for them seen their relative fragility yes. But what happens to BB when fire lobbing Cruisers suddenly get much more survivable ? BB could be like floating funeral pires and a horror to play. What happens to allied DD when enemy support Cruisers lurking outside caps are not killed ? They already have a very low life expectancy when they enter a cap.

 

There really is a balance in the game keeping classes in check. Upset that to much, and one class becomes rampant. DD are apparently very powerful ( their torpedo's are the heaviest weapons in game ) and seem to need that many anti-DD mechanics to keep them in check. So countering class counter mechanicls could have a lot of very bad consequences.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, LoveZeppelin said:

my poor Roma, I was traumatized earlier today by a pack of dds.:Smile_sad:

think of future tech tree releases, and how they might fit in the game, without being a repetition of what we already have.

That is not the ships fault...

 

Better to get new techtrees with known mechanics than to get techtrees that get gimmicks for the gimmicks sake.

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[JRM]
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54 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Will not happen.

Was discussed multiple times.

Ditto

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[ALONE]
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Furthermore there could be a jammer-jammer-consumable to jam the jammer  - unless the enemy has a jammer-jammer-jammer. :Smile_hiding:

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signal-jammer-500x500.jpg

what is your search history that the word jammer finds nsfw images 

seriously curious

but yea dont see it as likely, the classes for who it could be useful it would be too useful

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51 minutes ago, Ashardalon_Dragnipur said:

what is your search history that the word jammer finds nsfw images 

 

adults only :Smile_hiding:

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the fact i will never discover details saddens me immensely 

there are few kinks that i can think of that could lead to the algorithm treating you like that 

and you need to have looked for a lot of those to make it do that 

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15 hours ago, LoveZeppelin said:

 

scenario 1 : CV rocket squadron locates enemy dd, drops fighter squadron to perma spot, positions for attack run, calls for allied players to focus fire the dd, 

Jammer activated, dd disappears from minimap, remains visible and attackable by the CV air squadron, but immune to indirect fire from other players.

Visual contact and radar are not the same, if a DD is spotted visually (from, planes or ships) then it will stay spotted even if the radar jammer is activated

 

 

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Why don't they just make it so that Radar can be incapacitated or destroyed just the same as Guns or Torpedo tubes?

 

I mean is that asking too much...

 

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43 minutes ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

Why don't they just make it so that Radar can be incapacitated or destroyed just the same as Guns or Torpedo tubes?

 

I mean is that asking too much...

 

This has been discussed before, it seems to be the most logical idea, why this has not been implemented already is puzzling

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8 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

This has been discussed before, it seems to be the most logical idea, why this has not been implemented already is puzzling

Because it is a consumable.

Next demand would be the ability to destroy Sonar, Defensive Fire, DCP, Repair?

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xc  c xz\|zxcvbn v

31 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Because it is a consumable.

Next demand would be the ability to destroy Sonar, Defensive Fire, DCP, Repair?

Radar should have a health pool that is visible to the player offering  heals when damaged, but once destroyed its gone

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25 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

Radar should have a health pool that is visible to the player offering  heals when damaged, but once destroyed its gone

 

That still doesnt answer the question:

Why only radar and not the other consumables? I want to kill the DCP-team so the BB wont extinguish my fires anymore :Smile_trollface:

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

That still doesnt answer the question:

Why only radar and not the other consumables? I want to kill the DCP-team so the BB wont extinguish my fires anymore

Because radar is the most overpowered tool in the game

 

It requires absolutely no skill

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The problem with active jamming is that it lights up the jammer like a christmas tree.

Passive jamming; stuff like 'window', chaff, etc obscures the target.

 

In WoWs terms a ship using its jammer would be immediately visible to every red team ship or aircraft, maybe not its exact location but good enough to be localised for avoidance or visual spotting. People are already getting hits by blind fire into smoke screens.

 

RPF will locate a jammer just as easily as it locates the radio emissions from a ship, unless you put a sailor in a rowboat with the jammer......

 

Modern ecm is all about not emitting anything and covering every surface with absorbing materials.

The old 'Darken Ship' order is comparable.

 

If you want to 'balance' radar then give the DDs HARM missiles, these home onto radar emissions, but then you also have to provide the radar ship with a radar off command.......

 

 

 

TL;DR very complicated, best leave as is.

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8 minutes ago, Mahaaret said:

Because radar is the most overpowered tool in the game

 

It requires absolutely no skill

 

Thats your opinion.

- Radar doesnt harm any ship directly

- Its pressing a button like every other consumable too, but apparently they need more skill?

- If it requires no skill, then people shouldnt be able to misuse radar - yet, ive probably seen it hundreds of times. If it would require no skill, either it would be on permanently, or it would trigger itself once a ship enters radar range.

 

btw apparently you didnt learn much in your 1v1 Chapa vs DD?

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Thats your opinion.

- Radar doesnt harm any ship directly

- Its pressing a button like every other consumable too, but apparently they need more skill?

- If it requires no skill, then people shouldnt be able to misuse radar - yet, ive probably seen it hundreds of times. If it would require no skill, either it would be on permanently, or it would trigger itself once a ship enters radar range.

 

btw apparently you didnt learn much in your 1v1 Chapa vs DD?

No its not my opinion, its fact

 

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1 hour ago, Molly_Delaney said:

In WoWs terms a ship using its jammer would be immediately visible to every red team ship or aircraft, maybe not its exact location but good enough to be localised for avoidance or visual spotting. People are already getting hits by blind fire into smoke screens.

 

we are talking technology from the 1900s to mid 40s, the tech to detect who/what/where is doing the jamming did not exist for most (any?) of that period.

1 hour ago, Molly_Delaney said:

RPF will locate a jammer just as easily as it locates the radio emissions from a ship, unless you put a sailor in a rowboat with the jammer......

 

please read the OP; before replying

as stated in the opening description :

19 hours ago, LoveZeppelin said:

A Jammer consumeable that blocks all shared intel, radar, hydro, PT, RDF, detection indicator

only those with visual direct line of sight contact within visual detection range will be able to target enemy ships within the jammed zone.

 

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