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Yxkraft

Asymmetric battles should be T 5/6 vs T 9/10

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And relax this token requirement, even when the high end team has all human players it tends to lose. 5 T 9/10 vs 12 T 5/6  would be interesting. 

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13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That would  be nuts. Low Tier would have no chance.

I think it would be quite tricky for Low Tier teams to defeat a selection of Midway, Smolensk, Minotaur, Yamato and Thunderer, yes. Although it could be a new WoWS Speed Mode.

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I only played 2 VIII games so far, but it wasnt that hard to win.. no bots included either team

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2 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

I think it would be quite tricky for Low Tier teams to defeat a selection of Midway, Smolensk, Minotaur, Yamato and Thunderer, yes. Although it could be a new WoWS Speed Mode.

 

Not as hard as you think. Fire does the same percentual damage to large ships as to small, and large BB guns still fire only once ever 30 seconds, and its easier to hit T10 ships simply because they are so huuuge. And because of the difference in numbers its easier to get a flank shot at the high tier team. Present setup is 5 vs 9. Changing the number of ships on either side would be all thats required. As it is now, its not very exotic, asymmetric battles happens in randoms already since tier 5/6 already meet tier 7/8.

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13 minutes ago, Yxkraft said:

As it is now, its not very exotic, asymmetric battles happens in randoms already since tier 5/6 already meet tier 7/8.

 

Didnt know that in randoms one team has lowtier ships and the other has none while also having an imbalance in ships...

Its basicly always 12v12 with same amount of hightier ships, and 99% also same amount of low-midtier ships except for the occasional faildiv getting thrown under the bus.

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10 hours ago, Yxkraft said:

And relax this token requirement, even when the high end team has all human players it tends to lose. 5 T 9/10 vs 12 T 5/6  would be interesting. 

In the week I noticed people would rush as one in the low tier, during the weekend they play like a random, split up, hide and die as they get picked off one by one.

Agree with the tokens though.

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Cruisers (CL especially) for instance already suffer at the lower tiers vs BBs. I cant see why asymmetric battles are a good thing when they already have to take IFHE to penetrate 27 mm BB plating, while now suddenly facing T8s with 32mm whic They need to re-rework CL armour pen if this is to have any future. If anything, this mode only showcases how big the power gap is for cruisers after IFHE rework.

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5 hours ago, Yxkraft said:

Not as hard as you think. Fire does the same percentual damage to large ships as to small, and large BB guns still fire only once ever 30 seconds, and its easier to hit T10 ships simply because they are so huuuge. And because of the difference in numbers its easier to get a flank shot at the high tier team. 

Yes, but we've already got lots of nasty examples of overmatch in the current mode, and that becomes much more commonplace with the large calibre BB guns found on Tiers IX and X. So you've got a high tier team with a massive advantage in health pool, armour that low-mid tier CLs and DDs can't damage, and the ability to dev strike pretty much anything they might go into combat against.  WG's recent IFHE and armour changes have made is very difficult for any cruiser of Tier VII or less to compete against a high tier BB enemy, and I don't see it would be a fair challenge.

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Errrr.....no thanks. 

 

The jump in firepower, armour (think overmatch profiles here), speed, concealment and consumables....I'm sure I've left a few more advantages out of the equation but you get the idea. Even a T9/10 cruiser radically outmatches multiple lower tier cruisers thanks to the heal alone. The upper tier players would have to be beyond moronic levels of incompetence to allow the lower tier team any chance of winning.*

 

*Admittedly this isn't a high bar with some of the antics our playerbase get up to - but still.... 

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I cannot wait to watch crap like Salem just casually murder their way through the enemy team, because a grand total of 2 ships can actually overmatch it and it has a superheal to deal with chip damage. Meanwhile the 203 mm AP just absolutely wrecks any T5 cruiser. Or how about the supercruisers that can straight up overmatch T5 BBs? Kongou has 54k hp, 19 mm extremity plating, Yoshino gets like what? 62k and 25 mm? Puerto Rico would just be top meme because you basically crap on anything, same with Alaska.

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10 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

That would  be nuts. Low Tier would have no chance.

Well, it depends on the revised side counts, I'd say.

...I remember the debates of "how many of (insert a t1-3 ship) do you need to take down a Yamato" :Smile-_tongue:

 

That being said, specific ships would be problematic. I mean, some ships just don't punch up all that well. Some others, on the other hand, would just make people cry. I mean, just imagine playing against Haku when the best AA in your team is t6 :Smile_trollface:

 

Also, with too much quality vs quantity balancing it just wouldn't be much fun for low team even if you managed to properly balance it. Being an underdog is one thing, but outright canon fodder, where you need to swarm the enemy, most of you dying without accomplishing anything?

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You have to understand that the T10 ships would be outnumbered. Supposed there are 4 T9/10 vs 12 T5/6,  it is not so impossible for the low tier team to win. 

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5 hours ago, Yxkraft said:

You have to understand that the T10 ships would be outnumbered. Supposed there are 4 T9/10 vs 12 T5/6,  it is not so impossible for the low tier team to win. 

It's pretty damn hard. Even T9 vs T6 would be insane, given that you get ships like Kitakaze that outspot T6s, outgun them, outtorp them and obviously also have more hp. Cruiser-wise pretty much any T9 CA will be great value, given the 27 mm midships plating, the repairs and thus the ability to cope with any minor damage instead of succumbing to attrition. And yeah, have fun fighting the likes of Pommern or FdG. The best chance the lower tiers have would be if the higher tiers lack a CV or DD, which isn't unlikely given they are only 4 people, but that's not exactly the fun, is it? Who wants to gamble whether you are going to roflstomp or get your ship just torped all the time by multiple enemy DDs?

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ive played 2 games in asashio and while it was fun taking out the 3 bb I knew it was over against the 5 dd coming at me

 

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11 hours ago, HaachamaShipping said:

It's pretty damn hard. Even T9 vs T6 would be insane, given that you get ships like Kitakaze that outspot T6s, outgun them, outtorp them and obviously also have more hp. Cruiser-wise pretty much any T9 CA will be great value, given the 27 mm midships plating, the repairs and thus the ability to cope with any minor damage instead of succumbing to attrition. And yeah, have fun fighting the likes of Pommern or FdG. The best chance the lower tiers have would be if the higher tiers lack a CV or DD, which isn't unlikely given they are only 4 people, but that's not exactly the fun, is it? Who wants to gamble whether you are going to roflstomp or get your ship just torped all the time by multiple enemy DDs?

 

Wrong.  It will not be just 1 low tier DD vs 1 high tier. it will be 3 or 4.  Playing as a part of a team instead of solo is very different. The low tier team will have multiple available smokes, the single high tier DD just one, they will have far more torpedo tubes, they will have weaker but faster reloading torpedoes and collectively a volume of shellfire that is comparable to the Harugumo or higher depending on ships. And do not forget the T5/6 BBs and cruisers, the collective volume of fire from at least two different directions will mean citadels on cruisers from "feeble" low tier bb guns which still are far more potent that any T10 cruiser guns with the exception of Stalingrad. Ironically the latter coined the expression "quantity has a quality of its own", something that should not be overlooked.  F.ex 1 Harugumo will have 6 torp tubes + reload booster (171 sec base reload) vs say 3 or 4 fubuki (27 or 36 tubes, 76 sec reload). And Harugumo can only fire on 1 enemy at once with his guns. Yamato and the likes will be burning from a constant rain of shells. 

 

T 5/6 vs 9/10 increases the distance in ship handling between teams in terms of quantity vs quality and I think it is perfectly doable even without any token requirement because playing low tier will require different thinking than playing high tier. I think WG should try this, and set it up so there are no damn bots. Drop the token requirement or abolish it, its awful to play on the high tier team and your teammates are moronic bots that random walk across the battlesea. 

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4 minutes ago, Yxkraft said:

 

Wrong.  It will not be just 1 low tier DD vs 1 high tier. it will be 3 or 4.  Playing as a part of a team instead of solo is very different. The low tier team will have multiple available smokes, the single high tier DD just one, they will have far more torpedo tubes, they will have weaker but faster reloading torpedoes and collectively a volume of shellfire that is comparable to the Harugumo or higher depending on ships. And do not forget the T5/6 BBs and cruisers, the collective volume of fire from at least two different directions will mean citadels on cruisers from "feeble" low tier bb guns which still are far more potent that any T10 cruiser guns with the exception of Stalingrad. Ironically the latter coined the expression "quantity has a quality of its own", something that should not be overlooked.  F.ex 1 Harugumo will have 6 torp tubes + reload booster (171 sec base reload) vs say 3 or 4 fubuki (27 or 36 tubes, 76 sec reload). And Harugumo can only fire on 1 enemy at once with his guns. Yamato and the likes will be burning from a constant rain of shells. 

 

T 5/6 vs 9/10 increases the distance in ship handling between teams in terms of quantity vs quality and I think it is perfectly doable even without any token requirement because playing low tier will require different thinking than playing high tier. I think WG should try this, and set it up so there are no damn bots. Drop the token requirement or abolish it, its awful to play on the high tier team and your teammates are moronic bots that random walk across the battlesea. 

I mean, you can just take one GK, one Puerto Rico, one Des Moines and a Midway and basically win. You might have 4 Aigles that have the dpm of two Harugumos... but not the pen. If there's a high tier DD, it has free control over where to smoke, because T6 radar doesn't exist, while T6s always have to account for it. And the only BBs that outpen the likes of Puerto Rico are either 356 mm (in which case they aren't much better than PR and can't overmatch crap) or WV (in which case, you are basically a good set of guns on the first BB hull to be removed). Naturally you can guess if Bayern has enough pen to deal with T5-6 MM, Puerto Rico with similar pen, a better broadside and improved pen angles is basically a BB with a hydro and a radar.

 

As for burning from constant HE spam... you can burn in three locations, just endure it, after a few salvos there'll be a good few less enemies shooting you. If too afraid, take a Conqueror, it should do decent, given you can outspot most cruisers, your AP is absolutely adequate for the tier and you can guess how fun it is for T6s to fight a Conqueror, given they get T6 fire resistance, not T10 and T6 hp pool, not T10, Conqueror also can play much closer as the belt is more than adequate at mid range. T6 HE spam is a joke, as only low dpm heavy cruisers can actually pen the hull, light cruisers can't. Enemy DD gets detected (on a tier where noone surpasses the 10 km torp), just oneshot it with 12 HE shells. Even works on cruisers, because lol, mid-tier cruiser belts...

 

And sure, one T9/10 ship only can shoot 1 T5/6 ship at a time. But until the high tier ship dies, it has full firepower, even more due to AR. If the high tier ships manage to wither the initial storm, they have much less drop-off in force, as even after losing 2/3 of its hp, a high tier ship has all of its firepower, while the low tiers after losing 2/3 of the ships lost 2/3 of their damage output too.

 

Basically, the suggested force composition either results in a slaughter of lower tiers or in the upper tiers, due to having only 4 ships having heavily exploitable gaps. None of this can be rectified by the individual player, you basically can just go and pick ships like GK or PR or CV to get a ship that can fill as many gaps as possible. It then all boils down to whether you get a good composition or crap like 3 Smolensk and a Musashi. How fun...

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22 hours ago, HaachamaShipping said:

I cannot wait to watch crap like Salem just casually murder their way through the enemy team, because a grand total of 2 ships can actually overmatch it and it has a superheal to deal with chip damage. Meanwhile the 203 mm AP just absolutely wrecks any T5 cruiser. Or how about the supercruisers that can straight up overmatch T5 BBs? Kongou has 54k hp, 19 mm extremity plating, Yoshino gets like what? 62k and 25 mm? Puerto Rico would just be top meme because you basically crap on anything, same with Alaska.

Don't forget 1 stalingrad vs 5 bretanges :Smile_trollface:

*covers bunnehs eyes*

*horrible noises*

 

oh dear.

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