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Amarretto

SPECIFIC CV discussion

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So, first game in the Parceval today (I like to play ALL ship classes and about 15 - 20% of my games are in CVs). Game loading screen comes on and I say in team chat 'Hi guys - first game in this ship - apologies in advance. But the ship is fully upgraded', and a team mate replies with a joke about reporting me etc. etc. and we have a lol moment.

 

Game starts, and I have a pretty good game, finishing top of the team on 2.2k XP, a couple of kills, and more importantly a team win.

 

After battle screen looks nice as a result, and then I see down in my notifications - MINUS 4 karma. No idea who has reported me... team mates? Hope not but it's happened before (it's automatic for some players to report friend OR foe if they are in a CV). So I'm guessing the enemy team had a chat, saying 'report enemy CV' and as a result there I am, feeling crap after my first game in a new ship, which was a success..... and I'm feeling crap. Angry, frustrated and crap. 

 

Regardless of your feelings on CVs in the game (and I certainly don't have a problem playing with OR against them), when you have a proportion of your player base getting victimized like this, when most of the community contributors are FEEDING the anti CV rhetoric (yes, even the mild mannered Jingles, whose channel I am a fan of otherwise), and when your own reporting system is feeding the ability of your player base to 'bully' some of your players in this manner, then something is wrong, isn't it?

 

And to pre-empt replies, I'll happily discuss and debate ANYTHING with ANYONE, so keep it objective and as mature as you can manage please eh? 

 

 

 

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1) Karma and reporting is useless don't take it serious. 

2) If you play good and reported for that, take that as a compliment of some very butthurt children. 

3) If you feel crap because some people gave you an artbitrary minus one in a game.. you need to ask yourself why? because it is ridiculous.. 

4) Just don't bother.. play your game, help your team, do good, win... and have fun.. forget about the rest! 

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6 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

And to pre-empt replies, I'll happily discuss and debate ANYTHING with ANYONE, so keep it objective and as mature as you can manage please eh? 

 

well then, this might be the place to pose your questions, and to debate, CVs, specifically  https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/132108-general-cv-related-discussions/

6 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

Game starts, and I have a pretty good game, finishing top of the team on 2.2k XP, a couple of kills, and more importantly a team win.

 

probably the enemy team, reported you. Reporting players is a way many have to let off steam. Enemy players because you are too good, allied players because well, something in your gameplay upset them. Being reported does not hurt you, if it did you can always appeal. My advice, when driving a CV, a) try not to bring attention to yourself in chat, unless you absolutely must. b) don't expect compliments. c) stop worrying about your karma.

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1 minute ago, Amarretto said:

SPECIFIC CV discussion

...

And to pre-empt replies, I'll happily discuss and debate ANYTHING with ANYONE, so keep it objective and as mature as you can manage please eh?

We have a very specific CV discussion thread, that was pinned by WG staff/ mods, so WG devs can ignore all CV related things in the thread.

It saves them time to ignore various CV related threads all over the forum.

 

In regards to the rest of your post (which indicates you're very well aware of things):

 

You lost 4 karma playing a CV? Buhuuu, cry me a river.

It's like saying: "I used my baseball bat to club people in wheelchairs and now everyone is blaming me and calling me a bully...UNFAIR!".

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1 minute ago, Jethro_Grey said:

It's like saying: "I used my baseball bat to club people in wheelchairs and now everyone is blaming me and calling me a bully...UNFAIR!".

This made me laugh, but unfortunately, as I alluded to in my OP, it seems to be the go-to attitude towards CVs..... rather than try to learn how to counter them, people prefer to point the finger at them and blame them for screwing up the game.....

 

Just like they did with Yamato overmatch ...

Just like they did with Radar....

Just like they did with Smolensk HE spam.....

Just like they did with Kremlin immunity to damage......

Just like they did with Friesling fire from smoke.......

Just like they did with Des Moines tanking and AP spanking nose in.......

Just like they did with Conq HE spamming from 20K away and finishing top of table....

Just like they just did with amount of Graf Spees in ranked, because you know - META.....

etc 

etc

etc.

 

Possibly because I PLAY CVs every so often, I can SEE how some players know how to avoid CV damage; and there are LOTS of tricks 95% of the player-base do not know. Fortunately I do know most of them - I have learned them from the good players out there who I have dealt with while playing a CV. They are frustrating as hell.. and if I spend time on them, they neutralize the effect I can have on the game.

 

And I have offered to show these tricks to clan mates..... most of them aren't interested - it's easier to complain.

 

And FYI - I'm not the kind of player who calls out 'UNFAIR'... I prefer to see what I can learn when something 'SEEMS' unfair, so that next time I can adapt and make it more fair, or at least reduce how 'unfair' things are. 

 

But all of that is kind of off-topic. You are in effect, those that have replied so far, said suck it up. Ignore Karma. 

 

My response is, why should I HAVE to? Karma is (or SHOULD be) a nice indicator of how your team mates feel you played and/or interacted with your team, isn't it? Similar to win rate in that respect I think, isn't it? It's a yard stick.... and I feel that this particular yard stick is being allowed to be unfairly used. Sorry if some of you guys think I should just ignore that; I guess it just annoys me more than it does you.

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23 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

1) Karma and reporting is useless don't take it serious. 

2) If you play good and reported for that, take that as a compliment of some very butthurt children. 

3) If you feel crap because some people gave you an artbitrary minus one in a game.. you need to ask yourself why? because it is ridiculous.. 

4) Just don't bother.. play your game, help your team, do good, win... and have fun.. forget about the rest! 

1. Yes, I agree. However, it exists in the game for some bizarre reason and WG refuses to take it away even though, as you yourself admit, it is useless. So take it out as it is used to make younger/emotionally-vulnerable people feel bad and is a tool for cyber bullies.

2. Pathetic apology for a cyber bully"s tool (see above).

3. Again, I agree. But as a Moderator you seem to be placing the onus on players and not on the company. Remove the (your words) useless mechanic.

4. Agreed.

5. Remove Karma from the game and stop asking people not to feel offended. WG is providing the cyber bully with a stick (look above at Jethro_Grey(.

6. Poor attitude, Excavatus!

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Playing broken class as CV and be surprised to get reported for easy damage and kills. Now that is funny.

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so....essentially this is about nothing but gettin reported for playin cv?! :Smile_veryhappy: late to the party u are.... with either getting reported for playing cv, just as for the discussion about the karma system in general.

 

sry, can't see the "specific" part here btw. even less in regard to cv's lol ^^.... just a karma thread in disguise, #vote4close

 

 

p.s.:

dont play cv, problem solved :Smile_trollface::Smile_hiding:

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3 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

This made me laugh, but unfortunately, as I alluded to in my OP, it seems to be the go-to attitude towards CVs..... rather than try to learn how to counter them, people prefer to point the finger at them and blame them for screwing up the game.....

 

Just like they did with Yamato overmatch ...

Just like they did with Radar....

Just like they did with Smolensk HE spam.....

Just like they did with Kremlin immunity to damage......

Just like they did with Friesling fire from smoke.......

Just like they did with Des Moines tanking and AP spanking nose in.......

Just like they did with Conq HE spamming from 20K away and finishing top of table....

Just like they just did with amount of Graf Spees in ranked, because you know - META.....

etc 

etc

etc.

 

Possibly because I PLAY CVs every so often, I can SEE how some players know how to avoid CV damage; and there are LOTS of tricks 95% of the player-base do not know. Fortunately I do know most of them - I have learned them from the good players out there who I have dealt with while playing a CV. They are frustrating as hell.. and if I spend time on them, they neutralize the effect I can have on the game.

 

And I have offered to show these tricks to clan mates..... most of them aren't interested - it's easier to complain.

 

And FYI - I'm not the kind of player who calls out 'UNFAIR'... I prefer to see what I can learn when something 'SEEMS' unfair, so that next time I can adapt and make it more fair, or at least reduce how 'unfair' things are. 

 

But all of that is kind of off-topic. You are in effect, those that have replied so far, said suck it up. Ignore Karma. 

 

My response is, why should I HAVE to? Karma is (or SHOULD be) a nice indicator of how your team mates feel you played and/or interacted with your team, isn't it? Similar to win rate in that respect I think, isn't it? It's a yard stick.... and I feel that this particular yard stick is being allowed to be unfairly used. Sorry if some of you guys think I should just ignore that; I guess it just annoys me more than it does you.

You're wrong, and holy crap are you wrong on this one, because to any of your examples, there is a way to counter.

There is no way to counter CVs.

 

If you can't ignore Karma, you have to accept the fact that you'll get reported for playing CVs.

And that's what i do every game there's a CV: i report both teams CV(s).

 

If you play a highly broken and toxic class, consider it Karma to be reported for doing so.

Oh, wait... ^^

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46 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

1) Karma and reporting is useless don't take it serious. 

2) If you play good and reported for that, take that as a compliment of some very butthurt children. 

3) If you feel crap because some people gave you an artbitrary minus one in a game.. you need to ask yourself why? because it is ridiculous.. 

4) Just don't bother.. play your game, help your team, do good, win... and have fun.. forget about the rest! 

I have Smolensk... :Smile_trollface:

I have Thunderer...  :Smile_trollface: :Smile_trollface:

I play CV... :Smile_trollface: :Smile_trollface: :Smile_trollface:

 

Yes zero karma. So far I haven't been chatbanned though. :Smile_popcorn:

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5 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

Playing broken class as CV and be surprised to get reported for easy damage and kills. Now that is funny.

And there we go - thank you for proving my point. 

 

A team game - 1 CV (sometimes more) on EACH side. CV concentrates on 'easy damage and kills' and quite often the team loses in my experience.

 

BUT CV concentrates on neutralizing DDs, protecting friendlies, preventing enemy capping and spotting as WELL as 'easy' damage and kills, a better chance of a win.

 

But don't let that get in the way of a good finger point and propagation of a frankly ridiculous CV hate campaign.

 

What's funny is treating this team game as if it's NOT a team game. When I play a CV, (hell when MOST decent players play a CV) they are ACTIVELY trying to spot to HELP players in non-CVs, players like YOU Hades, cause damage, so that their TEAM can win the game. Hell, I give up most of the first 7 or 8 minutes of each game trying to neutralize DDs and help our DDs cap, why? Because it's a team game.....

 

I guess the CV hate is all so deeply rooted it's impossible to discuss,

 

So I guess I'll just have to 'suck it up' until the next Smolensk distracts the haters for a few weeks.

 

22 minutes ago, MrWastee said:

so....essentially this is about nothing but gettin reported for playin cv?! :Smile_veryhappy: late to the party u are.... with either getting reported for playing cv, just as for the discussion about the karma system in general.

 

sry, can't see the "specific" part here btw. even less in regard to cv's lol ^^.... just a karma thread in disguise, #vote4close

 

 

p.s.:

dont play cv, problem solved :Smile_trollface::Smile_hiding:

 

No Wastee, not a Karma thread in disguise. Not even close. A specific enquiry as to why there is so much CV hate in the game, as EVIDENCED by the karma system. I agree though my OP questions how the Karma system is used, again SPECIFICALLY in relation to my experience as a CV player in that game.

 

But hey, no-one is forcing you to debate anything here like a grown up, so you just carry on......

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37 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

..... rather than try to learn how to counter them, people prefer to point the finger at them and blame them for screwing up the game.....

Reality check: you can not counter a decent CV player in this CV iteration. I m not saying a good one. Only an average decent one. A bad one can be countered, but depends on him making mistakes, wasting planes or time. No mistakes, no counter. 

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Honestly, does it matter? I see constantly messages in game, "guys please report our Whatever ship, he's afk", or "plays badly". It never does anything, does it? Why care?

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Seeing as karma is an absolutely useless number it’s really not worth getting bothered about.

 

However if it really does bother you the best you can do is try to encourage WG that there is fundamentally something wrong with reworked CVs that cause a lot of hate/ frustration at the very presence of CVs in game and it affects your enjoyment of playing said class. 

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4 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

And there we go - thank you for proving my point. 

 

A team game - 1 CV (sometimes more) on EACH side. CV concentrates on 'easy damage and kills' and quite often the team loses in my experience.

 

BUT CV concentrates on neutralizing DDs, protecting friendlies, preventing enemy capping and spotting as WELL as 'easy' damage and kills, a better chance of a win.

 

But don't let that get in the way of a good finger point and propagation of a frankly ridiculous CV hate campaign.

 

What's funny is treating this team game as if it's NOT a team game. When I play a CV, (hell when MOST decent players play a CV) they are ACTIVELY trying to spot to HELP players in non-CVs, players like YOU Hades, cause damage, so that their TEAM can win the game. Hell, I give up most of the first 7 or 8 minutes of each game trying to neutralize DDs and help our DDs cap, why? Because it's a team game.....

 

I guess the CV hate is all so deeply rooted it's impossible to discuss,

 

So I guess I'll just have to 'suck it up' until the next Smolensk distracts the haters for a few weeks.

 

 

No Wastee, not a Karma thread in disguise. Not even close. A specific enquiry as to why there is so much CV hate in the game, as EVIDENCED by the karma system. I agree though my OP questions how the Karma system is used, again SPECIFICALLY in relation to my experience as a CV player in that game.

 

But hey, no-one is forcing you to debate anything here like a grown up, so you just carry on......

lol "grown-up".... "grown-ups" simply would ignore the whole thing....

 

so, where is the karma directly connected to cv play?! specifically?!..... getting reported for? does it influence the cv play in any way?! or your general gameplay?!?!.....

same for evidence rofl.... woat evidence?! feel free to share that evidence lmao.

 

and everything else cv related, the hate in particular, is well documented and discussed in the cv discussion thread (seesee^^).....

 

so grow up 'n git gudd :Smile-_tongue:

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1 hour ago, Amarretto said:

So, first game in the Parceval today (I like to play ALL ship classes and about 15 - 20% of my games are in CVs). Game loading screen comes on and I say in team chat 'Hi guys - first game in this ship - apologies in advance. But the ship is fully upgraded', and a team mate replies with a joke about reporting me etc. etc. and we have a lol moment.

 

Game starts, and I have a pretty good game, finishing top of the team on 2.2k XP, a couple of kills, and more importantly a team win.

 

After battle screen looks nice as a result, and then I see down in my notifications - MINUS 4 karma. No idea who has reported me... team mates? Hope not but it's happened before (it's automatic for some players to report friend OR foe if they are in a CV). So I'm guessing the enemy team had a chat, saying 'report enemy CV' and as a result there I am, feeling crap after my first game in a new ship, which was a success..... and I'm feeling crap. Angry, frustrated and crap. 

 

Regardless of your feelings on CVs in the game (and I certainly don't have a problem playing with OR against them), when you have a proportion of your player base getting victimized like this, when most of the community contributors are FEEDING the anti CV rhetoric (yes, even the mild mannered Jingles, whose channel I am a fan of otherwise), and when your own reporting system is feeding the ability of your player base to 'bully' some of your players in this manner, then something is wrong, isn't it?

 

And to pre-empt replies, I'll happily discuss and debate ANYTHING with ANYONE, so keep it objective and as mature as you can manage please eh? 

 

 

 

There is a cv specific thread which the MOD should have stepped in on 🤭.

 

As for the Karma system it’s a joke and is really why there is so much salt and ranting in chat? .

 

Ignore the minus karma’s that’s mainly players you’ve sunk or targeted (school kid mentality).

 

I rant when justified and Mark bad players down but I also compliment and message good players when justified, the whole karma system needs addressing but you’ll still get upset disgruntled players complaining because they were sunk by a better player.

 

Personally other than compliment we should not be allowed to berate or message any red players.

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52 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

This made me laugh, but unfortunately, as I alluded to in my OP, it seems to be the go-to attitude towards CVs

 

That's because it is the truth.

So embrace it.

Never forget what you are.

The rest of the world will not.

Wear it like armor and it can never be used to hurt you.

 

50 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

Possibly because I PLAY CVs every so often, I can SEE how some players know how to avoid CV damage; and there are LOTS of tricks 95% of the player-base do not know.

 

Funny, after ~4k battles in reworked CVs I have yet to see something that works against me.

And other top CV players as well as top players in CBs have yet to discover that as well. Do please tell us the mythical ways of how to avoid CV damage lul.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Amarretto said:

and I'm feeling crap. Angry, frustrated and crap. 

So that is exactly like those poor souls that you crapped on felt.:cap_haloween:

 

I play them too, not too bad also, but my karma usually stays the same, trying not to say much in chat thought to avoid chat ban by frustrated players.

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19 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

You're wrong, and holy crap are you wrong on this one, because to any of your examples, there is a way to counter.

There is no way to counter CVs.

 

If you can't ignore Karma, you have to accept the fact that you'll get reported for playing CVs.

And that's what i do every game there's a CV: i report both teams CV(s).

 

If you play a highly broken and toxic class, consider it Karma to be reported for doing so.

Oh, wait... ^^

 

 

Wow Jethro, just WOW!

 

You want to counter CVs?  There are LOTS of way... granted, you have to wait until late game to kill the actual CV, but a CV's contribution to a game isn't the ship - it's the PLANES!! And you can counter them just fine if you are open minded enough to learn how. I suspect you aren't.

 

Tell me, do you complain about not being able to counter a BB that cits you from 20km? Or a DD that torps you while undetected or keeps you perma-spotted? Or a cruiser in smoke spamming HE at your BB and causing endless fires?

 

CV play is a MECHANIC I suspect you just can't be bothered learning how to counter. This surprises me given your own stats.... unless you actually DO know, but you just like to stir trouble and throw CV hate for the hell of it, because LOLs.

 

And yes, it's players like you with the 'auto report' attitude that in my mind need to perhaps just grow up a bit. You drew attention to it - I'm calling you out for it.

 

No way to counter CVs? LOL!!!

 

1. Spec AA; for a good AA ship my planes often won't get close unless I use a limited use heal buff that lasts for 6 seconds, and I'll get a single attack in unless I want to lose the whole squadron in the fly-around.

2. Adapt your tactics to use friendly AA bubbles to emphasize 1. above.

3. Smoke up.... a CV is neutralized if it spends 2 minutes hovering over your smoke waiting for you to exit, losing planes the whole time. Hint - a good CV won't, but he WILL return.

4. Angle for the attacks.... you spot the planes 9 km away, and if they are doing an attack run you have time to angle in or out - whatever is most effective. 1 bomb/torp hit or 3 - it's YOUR choice.

5. Don't park and camp - sitting duck if you do - YOUR fault, don't blame the CV for taking advantage. Ohhh wait.....

6. Here's the dinger - if you have great detectability values (DDs) TURN OFF YOUR AA until you are spotted. CVs can't line up an attack, maneuver, focus reticle and launch in time if they can't spot you until you are within 3 km, and that's even MORE evident if the DD actively heads INTO your planes. Hell, give me a tier 9 plus European DD and an average enemy tier 10 CV player can't TOUCH me 1 on 1; they need to predict where I am to even get close!

 

Now, I fully expect you to claim you DO all those things, and they make no difference to you.

 

I'll save time and pre-empt that with a huge LOL now.

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1 hour ago, Amarretto said:

and there are LOTS of tricks 95% of the player-base do not know.

There are also lots of tricks that 95% of CV playerbase do not know and those that do can so easily dominate game without any meaningful counter play that it's not even fun.

Maybe this is a reason for all that hate?

 

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42 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

What's funny is treating this team game as if it's NOT a team game. When I play a CV, (hell when MOST decent players play a CV) they are ACTIVELY trying to spot to HELP players in non-CVs, players like YOU Hades, cause damage, so that their TEAM can win the game. Hell, I give up most of the first 7 or 8 minutes of each game trying to neutralize DDs and help our DDs cap, why? Because it's a team game.....

Lets be honest here. People don't care much about your effort to spot enemy ships with your CV. They see a player who bring a CV into their game (battle) and ruining experience for them because enemy CV is attacking them or just spot all the time so the rest of the enemy team can farm damage on them.

And you got reported very likely because of enemy team. They reported you. Especially if you had some kills, so expect you got and will keep getting reported by those players you kill with CV.

For some of them (players in enemy team you face) even a pure damage farm by your CV gameplay is enough for report.

CV is a broken class, and there is a legit reason why most of the player base hate that class. Players don't wanna be farmed on super easy way like pinatas from 25+ km range.

You do realize that your enemy can't do anything against your CV? Can you blame them for reporting you when you farm them in that condition?

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Sure, just dodge and group up and spec for AA. It just doesn't work, otherwise people wouldn't hate CVs.

Come on man, accept the reason CVs are hated.

Not disliked but hated. And if you play them accept it comes with a price: hate towards the class and eventually to the player behind.

 

You can't counter them even if you are a very good player.

You can try but it doesn't work plus while you try your best you are being spotted and shot at.

And if you succed once and the CV wants you dead it will come back for you once more, and then again and again until you are gone.

And also, I forgot, CVs are always the last ones to die.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

That's because it is the truth.

So embrace it.

Never forget what you are.

The rest of the world will not.

Wear it like armor and it can never be used to hurt you.

 

 

Funny, after ~4k battles in reworked CVs I have yet to see something that works against me.

And other top CV players as well as top players in CBs have yet to discover that as well. Do please tell us the mythical ways of how to avoid CV damage lul.

 

 

 

 

El2aZer, you are a Super-Unicum who has played since Beta, with over 8.5K CV battles behind you yes - 3.4 K of them in the Enterprise which I agree is broken?.... you are HARDLY indicative of the average player and your stats are HARDLY indicative of the overall CV picture.

 

And by 'avoid CV damage' I think it was fairly evident I meant avoid taking as much as you might if you just sat there waving a big flag saying 'CV shoot here'. :cap_old:

 

Or maybe you just want to keep the player-base hating and not learning to maintain your average damage? Busted!

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2 minutes ago, Amarretto said:

 

El2aZer, you are a Super-Unicum who has played since Beta, with over 8.5K CV battles behind you yes - 3.4 K of them in the Enterprise which I agree is broken?.... you are HARDLY indicative of the average player and your stats are HARDLY indicative of the overall CV picture.

 

And by 'avoid CV damage' I think it was fairly evident I meant avoid taking as much as you might if you just sat there waving a big flag saying 'CV shoot here'. :cap_old:

 

Or maybe you just want to keep the player-base hating and not learning to maintain your average damage? Busted!

I am average, I do not have BigE, i played less then 1k of CV games, all after reeework, do you see the difference in WR?

Most just can not play them, that is why CVs are OP.

And it is not a pathetic after all damage I do, it is spotting damage and neutralising of DDs, killing flanking guys and finishing of wounded ships that makes it broken and hated.

image.png.73d4695aadb99425718082320fad5c55.png

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