Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Hanse77SWE

Giving constructive criticism.

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[INTRO]
[INTRO]
Players
1,437 posts
17,307 battles

I've just seen another topic closed down because it didn't give "constructive criticism".

 

It's strange because I've learned that to give constructive criticism you first have to to do one of the following:

 

1: Criticise. I.e. describe the problem.

 

This means that we never get past this first point before we get "shot down". Also, saying "I don't like this because..." IS constructive criticism because it describes how one feels about a certain aspect of the game.

 

The second step should be something like: "Ok, can you descibe it a bit more so we can find the core of the problem?" or pehaps: "What do you suggest?". This second step doesn't happen, as far as I know. Just look at CV-rework and submarines.

 

Wargaming! I'm more than ready to give constructive criticism. Give me a shout when you are ready to listen.

 

@MrConway

 

EDIT: I also want to point out that it's not easy being constructive when the forum-trolls are nitpicking and misinterpreting anything that's written.

 

aZMZme9_700b.thumb.jpg.d0ee6ba17ed0e9ff25dd013fb17e04f6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
26,789 posts
14,375 battles

"I do not like xy, therefore WoWs has a problem" is not constructive criticism. It does not even mean WoWs has a problem. It is just an opinion.

 

There are two ways to go about it.

  1. Either explain how you got a problem and ask for help how to solve that problem
  2. or explain the problem in detail and show how it is affecting the game and the community and suggest a change to solve the problem

 

 

 

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[INTRO]
[INTRO]
Players
1,437 posts
17,307 battles
1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

"I do not like xy, therefore WoWs has a problem" is not constructive criticism.

 

2 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Also, saying "I don't like this because..." IS constructive criticism

You're missing things again Pete old boy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
26,789 posts
14,375 battles
1 minute ago, Hanse77SWE said:

 

You're missing things again Pete old boy.

Not really...

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,119 posts
4,794 battles
58 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

 

You're missing things again Pete old boy.

Not really.

There's a difference between:

3 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

"I don't like this because..."

And:

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

"I do not like xy, therefore WoWs has a problem"

And the difference in the absence of a "because" in the second example.

A lot of the """constructive""" posts on this forum take the latter route instead of the former, hence the closure as "non-constructive".

Also, constructive criticism needs to give examples of how to do better, the idea being to highlight something that the critic thinks is bad/wrong and to show that the critic has ideas for how it can be improved (this is why it's called "constructive criticism", rather than just "criticism", as it needs to "construct" a way of improving what is being criticised).

 

A lot of people posting on this forum know what they hate about the game, but haven't bothered to put in the effort to think of ways to improve the game beyond an exceptionally limited scope ("buff X" or "nerf Y" or "remove Z", instead of considering other ways in which things could be altered for the better).

For example:

One* of the driving forces of my decision to quit and uninstall the game back in January was the fact that I would spend hours of my life playing an unfun mess where routinely games would end in a one-sided roflstomp (regardless of whether its a win or a loss, there's nothing fun about being on a team where you did literally nothing to change the course of it because either your team or the enemy team just collapsed without doing anything of note).

A constructive take on the example given above is to recommend ideas to try and get WG to improve the situation, such as: forced tutorials for new players, preventing players from playing the premium ships they bought in Randoms or Ranked until they get to the same tier in a tech tree ship in the same class (DD, CL, CA, BB or CV), or the age-old favourite of "skill-based match making". But of course our perfect overlords in their infinite wisdom have seen to it that none of these changes are implemented and I forgot where I was going with this.

 

The point is, that a thread opened only listing what someone hates about the game is nothing more than a moan thread and is generally not considered useful constructive criticism.

 

*I feel like pointing out, that this is literally only one of about a dozen or so reasons I decided to quit this game.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
334 posts
5,568 battles

I hate cvs. They are bad for the game. Wg pls fix.

wait....thats not constructive?? how??? I didn't even insulted anybody, it has to be constructive???? /S

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,119 posts
4,794 battles

@Hanse77SWE, how exactly does reacting "bored" progress this discussion?

Or are you just doing it to people who have a dissenting opinion to yourself, without bothering to actually discuss it any further?

If it's the latter, there's no point in this thread even being open and I'm considering asking the mods to close it.

If you just want an echo chamber where you can surround yourself with people who have the same opinions as you, I'd recommend opening a private discord server.

 

Do you have anything to say, or are you just going to give me a bored reaction again?

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[INTRO]
[INTRO]
Players
1,437 posts
17,307 battles

@LOZFFVII

 

1: "Bored" means that you are missing the point. (And so did Pete.)

2: Why are you here if you haven't played the game in over seven months?

3: Closing the thread would only proven my point even further. I.E. WG not being willing to talk with the playerbase.

4: The thread isn't derailed because of my OP but rather by posts missing the point. A good post is being drowned out by meaningless chatter. So if this thread would be closed it would not be my fault but rather the fault of those spaming it. Same problem with trying to be constructive: other people take over the thread and kills it.

 

And yes, I will give you another bored because you are still misssing the point.

 

EDIT: This shows a big problem with the forum. You try and have a dialogue and give propper feedback to WG and you end up spending most of your time trying to explain to someone you weren't even talking to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
26,789 posts
14,375 battles

Looks like you are not understanding the answers.

 

Just because you think something is constructive criticism does not make it one. Having an opinion is not constructive criticism.

  • Cool 3
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[INTRO]
[INTRO]
Players
1,437 posts
17,307 battles
5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Looks like you are not understanding the answers.

I don't understand the answers because you are talking about someting completely different than I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,119 posts
4,794 battles
43 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

1: "Bored" means that you are missing the point. (And so did Pete.)

No it doesn't. "Bored" means you find the post boring. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

43 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

2: Why are you here if you haven't played the game in over seven months?

Irrelevant question to the topic at hand. Where does it say that after I quit the game I'm no longer allowed to use the forums? (and FYI, I only lurk in the Off-Topic section - had you posted anywhere else I wouldn't have seen it)

 

43 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

3: Closing the thread would only proven my point even further. I.E. WG not being willing to talk with the playerbase.

Unless the thread is closed by request from other forum users because the topic creator isn't interested in holding a conversation.

If that's what happens then it has nothing to do with WG and was entirely down to the forum goers who requested the closure.

 

43 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

4: The thread isn't derailed because of my OP but rather by posts missing the point. A good post is being drowned out by meaningless chatter. So if this thread would be closed it would not be my fault but rather the fault of those spaming it. Same problem with trying to be constructive: other people take over the thread and kills it.

How have we missed the point? Read my earlier post again, I have explained to you what "constructive criticism" is, and why many threads on this forum get closed for being unconstructive.

If you couldn't be bothered to read it, that's your problem and a symptom of the mentality of OP's who wind up with their threads being closed.

I'm trying to have a conversation with you about this, and you're plugging your ears while singing "lalalalalalalalala".

 

43 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

EDIT: This shows a big problem with the forum. You try and have a dialogue and give propper feedback to WG and you end up spending most of your time trying to explain to someone you weren't even talking to.

Wait, so if you're trying to have a dialogue with WG and not the forum goers in general...

Why the F*** wouldn't you send a PM to a WG staffmember?

Instead of posting in the Off-Topic section?

You know what the Off-Topic section is for?

Not things that are specific to WG or WoWS!:Smile_facepalm:

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[INTRO]
[INTRO]
Players
1,437 posts
17,307 battles
2 minutes ago, LOZFFVII said:

No it doesn't. "Bored" means you find the post boring. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's means I'm bored because you didn't understand. Talk to WG about new reactions.

3 minutes ago, LOZFFVII said:

Irrelevant question to the topic at hand. Where does it say that after I quit the game I'm no longer allowed to use the forums? (and FYI, I only lurk in the Off-Topic section - had you posted anywhere else I wouldn't have seen it)

Relevant question. Since you no longer play you should have no intrest in the game and therefor not be on the forum.

4 minutes ago, LOZFFVII said:

Unless the thread is closed by request from other forum users because the topic creator isn't interested in holding a conversation.

If that's what happens then it has nothing to do with WG and was entirely down to the forum goers who requested the closure.

But I am interested in disscusion the topic. I'm just not interseted in discussing things that dosen't belong to the topic. (Like we are doing now.)

7 minutes ago, LOZFFVII said:

I have explained to you what "constructive criticism" is

And that wasn't the point.

 

11 minutes ago, LOZFFVII said:

Why the F*** wouldn't you send a PM to a WG staffmember?

What makes you think I haven't?

 

@MrConway

 

Again, you see the problem with being constructive on the forum. I've now spent the best part of four hours trying to be constructive and all I get is abuse from trolls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
26,789 posts
14,375 battles
38 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

I don't understand the answers because you are talking about someting completely different than I am.

Looks like it. You must be talking about some otherworldly constructive criticism then...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,119 posts
4,794 battles
37 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Again, you see the problem with being constructive on the forum. I've now spent the best part of four hours trying to be constructive and all I get is abuse from trolls.

I'm a troll, am I?

Be extremely careful what you wish for, as I just spent the last half an hour writing up a troll post pertaining to this very poor choice of words from yourself:

37 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Relevant question. Since you no longer play you should have no intrest in the game and therefor not be on the forum.

You see, saying that makes it sound like you think the reasons behind my continued use of the forums is relevant to this thread, when it very clearly isn't.

I deleted everything I wrote because I decided I had gone too far and that it was likely to end up deleted by the mods and I would get a warning.

 

Instead I will leave you and this thread with this statement:

I have not once trolled you on this thread. I merely tried to have a conversation. I am disappointed that you couldn't see that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WG]
WG Staff, Alpha Tester
3,278 posts
3,599 battles
13 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

 

 

@MrConway

 

Again, you see the problem with being constructive on the forum. I've now spent the best part of four hours trying to be constructive and all I get is abuse from trolls.

 

Sorry, but I think @ColonelPete and @LOZFFVII are entirely right here.

 

Just posting that you dislike something is not constructive criticism at all. I also don't think they were abusing or trolling you, they were offering some constructive criticism regarding your topic.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[INTRO]
[INTRO]
Players
1,437 posts
17,307 battles
1 hour ago, MrConway said:

Just posting that you dislike something is not constructive criticism at all. I also don't think they were abusing or trolling you, they were offering some constructive criticism regarding your topic.

 

21 hours ago, Hanse77SWE said:

"I don't like this because..." IS constructive criticism

Note the "because" part. If you follow up your "I don't like" with a "because" then it should be constructive criticism. But I won't bother you or any else on WG with trying to give helpful feedback anymore.

 

You can lock this topic now.

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
334 posts
5,568 battles
Vor 33 Minuten, Hanse77SWE sagte:

 

Note the "because" part. If you follow up your "I don't like" with a "because" then it should be constructive criticism. But I won't bother you or any else on WG with trying to give helpful feedback anymore.

 

You can lock this topic now.

Only, if there is something meaningful after the because. xy is bad because it destroys the game is not constructive, even tho there is a because. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CN_]
Moderator, WoWs Wiki Team
2,055 posts
6,528 battles

Construtive criticism means to participate in a discussion with arguments and to explain the own opinion or to present new ideas etc.

So for example, if there is a thread like "All BBs are UP. WG is stupid" it most certainly won't lead to a discussion, most forum users will either just start trolling or ignore it because it doesn't even try to start a discussion. That's not constructive and will be closed in consequence.

Even if some posts in a thread like that are constructive, we usually close threads that will just lead to trolling instead of a good discussion.

 

It is not necessary to always write dozens of lines to present your opinion and be constructive, it can also be done within a few lines (a simple yes/no/maybe is not exactly constructive by this definition but it's still no spam and might help the discussion so it is not treated as a violation of this rule. Although that may depend on the content of the opening post of a thread).

 

Before you post just take a few seconds, read it again and answer the following question: Does it add something positive to the discussion?/Can it start a discussion and won't just lead to spam or trolling?

If the answer is yes the post is almost always fine.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TAYTO]
Players
805 posts
8,412 battles
On 8/30/2020 at 4:00 PM, Hanse77SWE said:

I've just seen another topic closed down because it didn't give "constructive criticism".

 

It's strange because I've learned that to give constructive criticism you first have to to do one of the following:

 

1: Criticise. I.e. describe the problem.

 

This means that we never get past this first point before we get "shot down". Also, saying "I don't like this because..." IS constructive criticism because it describes how one feels about a certain aspect of the game.

 

The second step should be something like: "Ok, can you descibe it a bit more so we can find the core of the problem?" or pehaps: "What do you suggest?". This second step doesn't happen, as far as I know. Just look at CV-rework and submarines.

 

Wargaming! I'm more than ready to give constructive criticism. Give me a shout when you are ready to listen.

 

@MrConway

 

EDIT: I also want to point out that it's not easy being constructive when the forum-trolls are nitpicking and misinterpreting anything that's written.

 

 

I'm positive in my views that CVs are sucking the life out of the game.
I suggest they are removed, or sent to an epic centre server of their own.

See, positive criticism and a solution :Smile_smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SKIDZ]
Players
959 posts

You’re  wasting your Time m8 plenty have been constructive about the CV cockup and look how well that has gone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×