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HidesHisFace

Jervis - am I missing something?

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So... After suffering through absolutely horrible Icarus, I was kind of excited about Jervis - I've read on various forums that it is such a massive improvement in every area and that this is the point where the line starts getting good...

 

And am I missing something? Because Jarvis is not really that much of an improvement at all. I mean, it is better, bug given that Icarus is just as bad as pre-buff Furutaka or Karlsruhe, this isn't saying much. 

 

The smoke is useless unless used as a panic button. Hydro on this thing is a sick joke. It can't stealth torp without both skilled captain and camo.

I mean, sure, the camo is pretty solid so it can outspot the competition in many cases but it hardly matters, because I don't feel that strong against other DDs anyway.

 

Torps are SLOW and reload horribly slowly, can't stealth torp unless something is chasing you and sails into range while you are moving away. Single fire DOES NOT make up for slowness, pitifully slow reload and range. 

 

The guns... are... fine? They don't strike me as very good - they lack the accuracy and velocity of Soviet or Japanese, but they don't feel as spammy as American of French guns either. I never feel confident that I can effectively outgun enemy DDs and Jervis lacks the super fast rudder of American DDs to go super close and negate awkward firing arc. 

And it can't hide and fire from smoke either.

 

So... It can't effectively torp unless ambushing at suicidal distances. It can't gunboat that effectively and it can't really hunt other DDs due to barely adequate armament. 

 

What am I missing here, what is so good about it that I don't see? Because so far, it feels like Icarus with slightly better guns.

 

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  • the HE DPM increases by 50% from Icarus
  • you are supposed to have concealment expert on a Tier VII DD
  • the hydro protects you and especially your team from torpedos
  • she is a superiror cap contester that has smoke at the ready for emergencies
  • the smoke is also good protection vs CV
  • when you removed the enemy DD, you can use the torps to finish off bigger ships

image.thumb.png.32296d1956494c8115b47c9085372004.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.d658bbcd7fe93b20ec8da42d81230400.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200815/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

 

 

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The Jervis is a great little DD. Hydro is defensive, not an offensive tool, smokes on demand provide you with basically 50 sec of free dakka (DPM is not bad, it is actually pretty on par with the rest of the tier 7 silver DD's), concealment is good at 6.2 km with concealment expert and while torps reload slow they hit hard and have a low concealment rating.

 

It is a cap contestor that provide screening against torps and fight other DD's by abusing your short cooldown smokes. When DD's are dealth with or pushed away you can focus on annoying bigger ships. With concealment expert you get a 800 m window where you can stealth torp, and in my experince that was enough to make these torps work.

 

I started the line from the Jervis due to the special going on at the time, and honestly it is one of the stronger and fun DD lines out there in my oppinion. Play closer to caps, learn how to use those short smokes and you will do fine.

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5 hours ago, HidesHisFace said:

So... After suffering through absolutely horrible Icarus, I was kind of excited about Jervis - I've read on various forums that it is such a massive improvement in every area and that this is the point where the line starts getting good...

 

And am I missing something? Because Jarvis is not really that much of an improvement at all. I mean, it is better, bug given that Icarus is just as bad as pre-buff Furutaka or Karlsruhe, this isn't saying much. 

 

The smoke is useless unless used as a panic button. Hydro on this thing is a sick joke. It can't stealth torp without both skilled captain and camo.

I mean, sure, the camo is pretty solid so it can outspot the competition in many cases but it hardly matters, because I don't feel that strong against other DDs anyway.

 

Torps are SLOW and reload horribly slowly, can't stealth torp unless something is chasing you and sails into range while you are moving away. Single fire DOES NOT make up for slowness, pitifully slow reload and range. 

 

The guns... are... fine? They don't strike me as very good - they lack the accuracy and velocity of Soviet or Japanese, but they don't feel as spammy as American of French guns either. I never feel confident that I can effectively outgun enemy DDs and Jervis lacks the super fast rudder of American DDs to go super close and negate awkward firing arc. 

And it can't hide and fire from smoke either.

 

So... It can't effectively torp unless ambushing at suicidal distances. It can't gunboat that effectively and it can't really hunt other DDs due to barely adequate armament. 

 

What am I missing here, what is so good about it that I don't see? Because so far, it feels like Icarus with slightly better guns.

 

Smoke is your best counter against carriers, also due to having so many of them you have many opportunities to put guns into action, if no convenient island is nearby. You can also use them to break contact.

 

If you lack "stealth torping" then clearly you're lacking CE on captain. Not that you will "stealth torp" much with 700m margin, but it is something. Besides, torps on Brit DDs becomes powerful on tier 9 onwards, as T8 is still somewhat short in range department.

 

Hydro is defensive with its short range and long duration, and you shouldn't actively look for opportunities to hydro someone around islands or in smokes. Still, if situation presents itself in late game and you're not far... then why not

 

Still, entire line starts to shine from T8 onwards, so you're closer than further away.

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2 hours ago, Panocek said:

Smoke is your best counter against carriers, also due to having so many of them you have many opportunities to put guns into action, if no convenient island is nearby. You can also use them to break contact.

 

If you lack "stealth torping" then clearly you're lacking CE on captain. Not that you will "stealth torp" much with 700m margin, but it is something. Besides, torps on Brit DDs becomes powerful on tier 9 onwards, as T8 is still somewhat short in range department.

 

Hydro is defensive with its short range and long duration, and you shouldn't actively look for opportunities to hydro someone around islands or in smokes. Still, if situation presents itself in late game and you're not far... then why not

 

Still, entire line starts to shine from T8 onwards, so you're closer than further away.

With few more battles in it, Jervis is slowly growing on me, but I'm still not quite convinced. For some reason I don't feel confident in this ship.

 

Perhaps I'm weird, but I actually had better luck dealing with enemy DDs in Japanese torpedo line destroyers than any dedicated gun boat destroyer so far, and Jervis is no exception here. Yeah, I had better luck gunboating in ships with notoriously bad guns...

 

I don't have the best captain so far - had a pretty long break and I had Icarus earlier from the missions, when the line got first introduced. 

 

That being said, I've come to appreciate the acceleration combined with improved rudder module.

 

I'm still not convinced about that short range hydro - it is... somewhat handy if you assume that your friendlies will see the torps you detect, but for my personal use, not really. Smokescreen is just a panic button but not much else - I'd rather have a normal smoke generator - in this current iteration it is basically half-baked hybrid between Italian smoke and normal smoke-screen, except with no real benefits of either.

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4 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

With few more battles in it, Jervis is slowly growing on me, but I'm still not quite convinced. For some reason I don't feel confident in this ship.

 

Perhaps I'm weird, but I actually had better luck dealing with enemy DDs in Japanese torpedo line destroyers than any dedicated gun boat destroyer so far, and Jervis is no exception here. Yeah, I had better luck gunboating in ships with notoriously bad guns...

 

I don't have the best captain so far - had a pretty long break and I had Icarus earlier from the missions, when the line got first introduced. 

 

That being said, I've come to appreciate the acceleration combined with improved rudder module.

 

I'm still not convinced about that short range hydro - it is... somewhat handy if you assume that your friendlies will see the torps you detect, but for my personal use, not really. Smokescreen is just a panic button but not much else - I'd rather have a normal smoke generator - in this current iteration it is basically half-baked hybrid between Italian smoke and normal smoke-screen, except with no real benefits of either.

With normal smoke you're bound to one place for some time, and if you leave smoke because, I dunno, entire enemy team is coming your way, you will be out of smoke for 2 to 3 minutes. Not entirely optimal should you get spotted by CV or enemy ship(s), while with fast reloading smoke you can just use it.

 

Short range hydro and smoke are all about being selfish and for good reasons - randoms never were about 12v12, but 1v23, maybe 3v21 if you play in division.

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7 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

 

 

I'm still not convinced about that short range hydro - it is... somewhat handy if you assume that your friendlies will see the torps you detect, but for my personal use, not really. Smokescreen is just a panic button but not much else - I'd rather have a normal smoke generator - in this current iteration it is basically half-baked hybrid between Italian smoke and normal smoke-screen, except with no real benefits of either.

Hydro is short range sure but really long duration, you are almost immune to torps as long as it is active and that helps both you and your team.  As for the smoke, it is great in its own field. Short duration, but short cooldown and plenty of them so are basically free to smoke up whenever you please because there is almost no penalty to it. 

 

Once you get used to the smokes normal smokes almost feel lame by comparision.

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2 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

Once you get used to the smokes normal smokes almost feel lame by comparision.

f7FdEdG.jpg

 

After playing brit DDs for so long, any other smoke besides Pan Asian feels like handicap.

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On 8/28/2020 at 9:22 PM, ollonborre said:

Hydro is short range sure but really long duration, you are almost immune to torps as long as it is active and that helps both you and your team.  As for the smoke, it is great in its own field. Short duration, but short cooldown and plenty of them so are basically free to smoke up whenever you please because there is almost no penalty to it. 

 

Once you get used to the smokes normal smokes almost feel lame by comparision.

 

I don't quite see it. This smoke does not even work very well as a panic button, because you outrun it. To use it effectively, I have to be turned away from the enemy, which means I'm expecting trouble in the first place. Even when dumping this smoke - to remain concealed, I need to limit my movement, because the smoke spread is so narrow I always risk exposing my ship. And with limited movement, I become easy to blindfire. Pick your poison kind of thing. 

 

Speaking of expecting trouble - this is my issue with hydro on it - the second I'm spotted, I employ evasive action, I automatically assume torps are on their way - hydro is a convenience tool at this stage, but not much else.

 

Torps - as I mentioned before. USELESS. Too slow and too short ranged to use offensively and even defensively - even if I dump them while retreating, they are so slow that almost everything can avoid them reliably. The only success I had with these things was camping corners against impatient BBs. BUT I could do this with EVERY other destroyers, maybe with an exception of Swedish ones. British acceleration makes it more convenient.

I'm not even going to write much about criminally long reload.

 

Contesting caps... Not really viable with all the carriers around and hunting other destroyers isn't really viable either from my experience. The guns are not reliable against smaller targets unless at suicidal ranges. 

I can't outgun dedicated gunboats like French, American or Soviet DDs. Swedish can heal (so they basically have inflated health) and blindside you with super fast torps. Besically, the only things I feel like I have some sort advantage over are Japanese torpedo destroyers. German and Pan-Asian boats are about equal here, though Germans have advantage of superior hydro, smoke AND torps.

 

And of all things, all the talk about how good it supposedly is. I can't even find decent enough replays to learn this ship and see what I'm doing wrong.

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20 minutes ago, HidesHisFace said:

 

I don't quite see it. This smoke does not even work very well as a panic button, because you outrun it. To use it effectively, I have to be turned away from the enemy, which means I'm expecting trouble in the first place. Even when dumping this smoke - to remain concealed, I need to limit my movement, because the smoke spread is so narrow I always risk exposing my ship. And with limited movement, I become easy to blindfire. Pick your poison kind of thing. 

 

Speaking of expecting trouble - this is my issue with hydro on it - the second I'm spotted, I employ evasive action, I automatically assume torps are on their way - hydro is a convenience tool at this stage, but not much else.

 

Torps - as I mentioned before. USELESS. Too slow and too short ranged to use offensively and even defensively - even if I dump them while retreating, they are so slow that almost everything can avoid them reliably. The only success I had with these things was camping corners against impatient BBs. BUT I could do this with EVERY other destroyers, maybe with an exception of Swedish ones. British acceleration makes it more convenient.

I'm not even going to write much about criminally long reload.

 

Contesting caps... Not really viable with all the carriers around and hunting other destroyers isn't really viable either from my experience. The guns are not reliable against smaller targets unless at suicidal ranges. 

I can't outgun dedicated gunboats like French, American or Soviet DDs. Swedish can heal (so they basically have inflated health) and blindside you with super fast torps. Besically, the only things I feel like I have some sort advantage over are Japanese torpedo destroyers. German and Pan-Asian boats are about equal here, though Germans have advantage of superior hydro, smoke AND torps.

  

And of all things, all the talk about how good it supposedly is. I can't even find decent enough replays to learn this ship and see what I'm doing wrong.

You can still employ smoke to disengage by turning away and going full speed. If no one is at your sides the smoke will block all vision directly behind you are you are safe. Other uses of the smoke is to use it offesnively as a free dakka tool or when you fight another DD near some teammates, open up, slow down and pop smoke and watch as the other DD is either forced to use its own more precious smokes or it will get gunned down by you and your team.

 

Hydro is best used before you enter an area of the map where a DD might be to get the most out of it. And this whole "spotted take evasive action" is a good thing, but it can be helped a lot by just popping that hydro earlier. The druation is really long so you don't loose anything really.

 

The torps are not useless, not by any means, they are just tricky to use. First of you need concealment expert however to even have a chance to stealth torp. Once you get that the torps again hit hard and are quite stealthy. Speed is meh but not horrible and yeah the reload is crap. This is a common trend among the UK DD's.

 

And cap contesting is viable, even with CV's because, and I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, you have on demand smoke that can keep you safe and allow you to be aggressive even in CV games. Gun wise the Jervis is average among the tier 7 DD's but not bad. You can't outgun more gunfocused DD's but you are not hopelessely outmatched either. And once again, you have those smokes to help you out.

 

In summary the smokes are key to success in the Jervis. Tier 8+ start to get other things going for them so the smokes become more of a tool than a necessity, but lower tiers you need to get a handle on how to best utilise the short cooldown smokes to best effect. 

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3 hours ago, HidesHisFace said:

Torps - as I mentioned before. USELESS. Too slow and too short ranged to use offensively and even defensively - even if I dump them while retreating, they are so slow that almost everything can avoid them reliably.

WG sets detection to keep roughly constant 8s reaction time on non IJN, non FR and non deepwater torps. First two have around 10s, last ones have around 5s.

 

Even "railgun torps" of Halland are easy to evade with good ol preemptive WSAD hax, even more if hydro is up.

 

3 hours ago, HidesHisFace said:

I can't outgun dedicated gunboats like French, American or Soviet DDs. Swedish can heal (so they basically have inflated health) and blindside you with super fast torps. Besically, the only things I feel like I have some sort advantage over are Japanese torpedo destroyers. German and Pan-Asian boats are about equal here, though Germans have advantage of superior hydro, smoke AND torps.

But you can and you should play "unfair" with your own smokes, even more so as Jervis have concealment advantage over all mentioned DDs. Skane while she does have heal, she also have one of the lowest hp pool of all T7 destroyers.

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3 hours ago, HidesHisFace said:

 

  1. I don't quite see it. This smoke does not even work very well as a panic button, because you outrun it. To use it effectively, I have to be turned away from the enemy, which means I'm expecting trouble in the first place. Even when dumping this smoke - to remain concealed, I need to limit my movement, because the smoke spread is so narrow I always risk exposing my ship. And with limited movement, I become easy to blindfire. Pick your poison kind of thing. 
  2. Speaking of expecting trouble - this is my issue with hydro on it - the second I'm spotted, I employ evasive action, I automatically assume torps are on their way - hydro is a convenience tool at this stage, but not much else.
  3. Torps - as I mentioned before. USELESS. Too slow and too short ranged to use offensively and even defensively - even if I dump them while retreating, they are so slow that almost everything can avoid them reliably. The only success I had with these things was camping corners against impatient BBs. BUT I could do this with EVERY other destroyers, maybe with an exception of Swedish ones. British acceleration makes it more convenient. I'm not even going to write much about criminally long reload.
  4. Contesting caps... Not really viable with all the carriers around and hunting other destroyers isn't really viable either from my experience. The guns are not reliable against smaller targets unless at suicidal ranges. 
  5. I can't outgun dedicated gunboats like French, American or Soviet DDs. Swedish can heal (so they basically have inflated health) and blindside you with super fast torps. Besically, the only things I feel like I have some sort advantage over are Japanese torpedo destroyers. German and Pan-Asian boats are about equal here, though Germans have advantage of superior hydro, smoke AND torps.
  6. And of all things, all the talk about how good it supposedly is. I can't even find decent enough replays to learn this ship and see what I'm doing wrong.
  1. When you sit in a DD and do not expect trouble, you are doing it wrong. And the smoke from other DD does not conceal you at full speed either. Did you play RM CA for too long?
  2. You use Hydro before you get spotted, since it runs that long. It protects you from random torps or torps that are used on your teammates. It also creates a 6km screen that spots all torpdos going for your teammates.
  3. They allow to stealth torp. That is enough. You can also launch individually, which is a great advantage.
  4. These are the problems of all DD. And when you cannot hit stuff at the other side of the cap, you need to practice.
  5. RU and US DD have similar firepower to yours. The FR DD are a problem with reload booster, but that is what your smoke is for.
  6. https://replayswows.com/site/index/sort/uploaded_at.desc/level/7/type/4/nation/3/ship/380/video/1/

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On 8/28/2020 at 12:14 PM, HidesHisFace said:

So... After suffering through absolutely horrible Icarus, I was kind of excited about Jervis - I've read on various forums that it is such a massive improvement in every area and that this is the point where the line starts getting good...

 

And am I missing something? Because Jarvis is not really that much of an improvement at all. I mean, it is better, bug given that Icarus is just as bad as pre-buff Furutaka or Karlsruhe, this isn't saying much. 

 

The smoke is useless unless used as a panic button. Hydro on this thing is a sick joke. It can't stealth torp without both skilled captain and camo.

I mean, sure, the camo is pretty solid so it can outspot the competition in many cases but it hardly matters, because I don't feel that strong against other DDs anyway.

I could be wrong here... but from memory doesn't Icarus have a better stealth torp concealment than Jarvis?

 

I always though Icarus was slightly better than Jarvis from memory, because you more room to fire torps and remain hidden - up until you get passed Jarvis to the Lightening at T8. Then that has better concealment/ torping again.

 

I never liked Javis. I thought Icarus was fun and Lightening is much better than Jarvis. But thought all 3 have a rather limited torp range vs their concealment to fire them and remain hidden. But then I have the premium Cossack so you gain the 10k torps and not 8k torps that comes on Lightening. Cossack is a good Brit DD because you have 5.5k concealment fully maxed out with 10k torps that reload fast.

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Alle 28/8/2020 alle 13:14, HidesHisFace ha scritto:

So... After suffering through absolutely horrible Icarus, I was kind of excited about Jervis - I've read on various forums that it is such a massive improvement in every area and that this is the point where the line starts getting good...

 

And am I missing something? Because Jarvis is not really that much of an improvement at all. I mean, it is better, bug given that Icarus is just as bad as pre-buff Furutaka or Karlsruhe, this isn't saying much. 

 

The smoke is useless unless used as a panic button. Hydro on this thing is a sick joke. It can't stealth torp without both skilled captain and camo.

I mean, sure, the camo is pretty solid so it can outspot the competition in many cases but it hardly matters, because I don't feel that strong against other DDs anyway.

 

Torps are SLOW and reload horribly slowly, can't stealth torp unless something is chasing you and sails into range while you are moving away. Single fire DOES NOT make up for slowness, pitifully slow reload and range. 

 

The guns... are... fine? They don't strike me as very good - they lack the accuracy and velocity of Soviet or Japanese, but they don't feel as spammy as American of French guns either. I never feel confident that I can effectively outgun enemy DDs and Jervis lacks the super fast rudder of American DDs to go super close and negate awkward firing arc. 

And it can't hide and fire from smoke either.

 

So... It can't effectively torp unless ambushing at suicidal distances. It can't gunboat that effectively and it can't really hunt other DDs due to barely adequate armament. 

 

What am I missing here, what is so good about it that I don't see? Because so far, it feels like Icarus with slightly better guns.

 

I did found myself pretty happy with Icarus in this last clan battles season. Not a pro, not in a pro clan, yet was still fun. The tons of smokes + endless hdro (with coal upgrade even better) is a sweet combo. Now Jervis feels a more of the same kind of ship, but I still need to play it a few games more to form a complete opinion.

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