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Beastofwar

Naval Battle missing (nation) classes.

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Naval battles is a useful way to gather more oil to increase building levels in clan port. Yet with the release of ever more new ships the roster does not allow to participate with all ships that are available. The pattern i see here that all that cannot participate seem to be Premium ships. Previously German CV could not participate either, now they can and there are now tech tree German CV ofcourse.

 

Pan Asia has Cruisers for over years now, yet they can't participate. Pan Asia has a Battleship now although it is actually a Chinese Newyear one. It can't participate.

 

Italy had a Battleship for years. It can't participate. Now it has even two Battleships. I noticed and Italian Premium Destroyer is in the making, not participation option for it yet. ( obvious but one would expect no option after it gets released either )

 

Europe has a Battleship.

 

Commonwealth has Cruisers and Destroyers that aren't even in the roster at all.

 

wows 118.jpg

 

There is no mention in this feature's rules nations with classes consisting only of Premium ships are excluded.....there is mention in the rules you can participate with researchable and premium ships.

 

@Crysantos    @MrConway   what is up with this issue ( if at all ) ?

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You can participate with silver and premium ships, but only earn stars in class/nation combos that have a tech-tree line. This is fair and right – otherwise Naval Battle becomes kinda P2W – and it has been this way forever.

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21 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

There is no mention in this feature's rules nations with classes consisting only of Premium ships are excluded.....there is mention in the rules you can participate with researchable and premium ships.

I just checked first announcement of Naval Battles and this already had this "feature" as you can see in screenshot: https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/naval-battle-howto/ 

Unfortunately the dedicated article is gone. But I also do agree with the argument that clans should not be punished if they don't own these kind of premiums as they cannot do the tasks you described. There should not be an advantage for spending money/doubloons like this. 

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13 minutes ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

I just checked first announcement of Naval Battles and this already had this "feature" as you can see in screenshot: https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/general-news/naval-battle-howto/ 

Unfortunately the dedicated article is gone. But I also do agree with the argument that clans should not be punished if they don't own these kind of premiums as they cannot do the tasks you described. There should not be an advantage for spending money/doubloons like this. 

 

What is the "advantage" of a few premium ships toward all other ships ( maybe hundreds including Premiums ) that can participate ? There aren't any OP monsters among the missing ones.....there arguably are in the nations that can participate.

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2 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

What is the "advantage" of a few premium ships toward all other ships ( maybe hundreds ) that can participate ? There aren't any OP monsters among them.....

The tasks itself. I mean if your clan has Commonwealth ships or the PanAsian Cruisers (or Italian BB etc) you can easily do points and oil, but a clan without these ships cannot. 

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7 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

What is the "advantage" of a few premium ships toward all other ships ( maybe hundreds including Premiums ) that can participate ? There aren't any OP monsters among the missing ones.....there arguably are in the nations that can participate.

It's not about them being OP or not, it's about the fact that having access to those premiums would greatly increase the number of stars – including easy stars – that a clan could gather. Ships don't have to be OP to get over the 300 BXP bar.

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12 minutes ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

The tasks itself. I mean if your clan has Commonwealth ships or the PanAsian Cruisers (or Italian BB etc) you can easily do points and oil, but a clan without these ships cannot. 

 

But there are hundreds of ships and multiple nations you can participate with ???

 

I see i was missing other clan members need to go over the minimum bar set by the previous player.....that you get from operating as a ( previously)  1 man clan getting maximum 10 points anyway....:Smile_facepalm:

 

Yet 25 players can now clear a mere 300 point bar without having to clear much higher bars ? Of a 50 member clan the best 25 would have to clear 900 points....still easy no ?

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1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

Or am i missing things here ?

But you do know that your clan-members have to beat your results and it increases, right? So if you do ten times 300-task and are succesful (ofc), your clan-mates have to beat 900 and so on. Which means you'd have more 300-tasks which can be done in co-op if you own nations with just premiums and that's an advantage through buying ships. That's the steps btw.  

image.png

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7 minutes ago, Wizard27_1979 said:

But you do know that your clan-members have to beat your results and it increases, right? So if you do ten times 300-task and are succesful (ofc), your clan-mates have to beat 900 and so on. Which means you'd have more 300-tasks which can be done in co-op if you own nations with just premiums and that's an advantage through buying ships. That's the steps btw.  

image.png

 

Yes i was reaching that conclusion when you were busy posting that.

 

I am still thinking on it's implications though. You need a big clan to have to clear 1200 bars and be disadvantaged by not having the extra premiums i mentioned. And what are the odds no one has these ships in such large clans ?

 

And the fact a very small amount of "P2W" is never a bad thing for WG ? Besides that to clear bars above 1200 you probably need premium ships or premium camo's on ships  = P2W anyway.

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1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Yes i was reaching that conclusion when you were busy posting that.

 

I am still thinking in it's implications though.

The thing is that if you allowed those premium-only categories, clans with access to those can farm more stars, as it adds to the absolute maximum number that can be earned. It also allows them to farm more easy stars. It would this give them a clear competitive advantage simply for having opened their wallet, which obviously it's best to avoid.

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4 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

You need a big clan to have to clear 1200 bars and be disadvantaged by not having the extra premiums i mentioned. And what are the odds no one has these ships in such large clans ?

It's not about mass, it's about class imho do to the tasks. OFC large able clans will earn more than small, not-that-able ones. But, as I said before, I agree with WG not "allowing" exclusive-premium-tasks in a somewhat "competitive" format. 

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1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

Naval battles is a useful way to gather more oil to increase building levels in clan port. Yet with the release of ever more new ships the roster does not allow to participate with all ships that are available. The pattern i see here that all that cannot participate seem to be Premium ships. Previously German CV could not participate either, now they can and there are now tech tree German CV ofcourse.

 

Pan Asia has Cruisers for over years now, yet they can't participate. Pan Asia has a Battleship now although it is actually a Chinese Newyear one. It can't participate.

 

Italy had a Battleship for years. It can't participate. Now it has even two Battleships. I noticed and Italian Premium Destroyer is in the making, not participation option for it yet. ( obvious but one would expect no option after it gets released either )

 

Europe has a Battleship.

 

Commonwealth has Cruisers and Destroyers that aren't even in the roster at all.

 

And all of these are Premium ships that don't have a silver equivalent .. allowing those would make the Naval Battles more P2W, since the clan that owns more of these nations/classes can more easily gain stars.

In my opinion it's good as it is; plenty of choice anyway, and I don't think playing a "missing" nation/class (e.g. EU BB) would count as an attempt anyway?

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22 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

You need a big clan to have to clear 1200 bars and be disadvantaged by not having the extra premiums i mentioned. And what are the odds no one has these ships in such large clans ?

 

And the fact a very small amount of "P2W" is never a bad thing for WG ? Besides that to clear bars above 1200 you probably need premium ships or premium camo's on ships  = P2W anyway.

There are a few things to say to that.

 

First of all, it's base XP, so camo modifiers don't come into it. I know some premium ships have a higher BXP modifier than other ships of the same tier – notably Sims and, IIRC, Atlanta – but then we know that all ships have slightly different multipliers (even if these aren't publicly available). It's perfectly possible to beat those bars in tech-tree ships, especially if they are higher tier and if you win. I've gained more than 1,700 in my GM, Lyon, Cleveland, Benson, Jervis, New Orleans, Queen Elizabeth, and Aoba in recent weeks (though never for Naval Battle – I just mean it's possible, and I'm not even a particularly impressively good player).

 

Again, it's not necessarily about clearing the higher bars, but also about having more low bars you can attempt with a great deal of certainty that you will gain the star. That's quite a large degree of P2W. The disadvantage if you don't have access is there from the start, and arguably even counts for more at the start. It would absolutely affect small clans too.

 

I'd argue quite strongly that avoiding P2W elements altogether is better for the overall health of the game – it doesn't matter if it's only a small amount. This is why hugely over-performing premiums get removed.

 

Even if the odds are small that no one in a large clan has access to some of those ships, they would still gain an advantage for having opened their wallets, and there's a greater-than-negligible chance that one clan in an engagement has an uneven advantage as a result of access to premiums.

 

All that considered, I don't see a good argument for changing the current situation, and some clearly good reasons for keeping it as is.

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5 minutes ago, TeaAndTorps said:

There are a few things to say to that.

 

First of all, it's base XP, so camo modifiers don't come into it. I know some premium ships have a higher BXP modifier than other ships of the same tier – notably Sims and, IIRC, Atlanta – but then we know that all ships have slightly different multipliers (even if these aren't publicly available). It's perfectly possible to beat those bars in tech-tree ships, especially if they are higher tier and if you win. I've gained more than 1,700 in my GM, Lyon, Cleveland, Benson, Jervis, and Aoba in recent weeks (though never for Naval Battle – I just mean it's possible, and I'm not even a particularly impressively good player).

 

Again, it's not necessarily about clearing the higher bars, but also about having more low bars you can attempt with a great deal of certainty that you will gain the star. That's quite a large degree of P2W. The disadvantage if you don't have access is there from the start, and arguably even counts for more at the start. It would absolutely affect small clans too.

 

I'd argue quite strongly that avoiding P2W elements altogether is better for the overall health of the game – it doesn't matter if it's only a small amount. This is why hugely over-performing premiums get removed.

 

Even if the odds are small that no one in a large clan has access to some of those ships, they would still gain an advantage for having opened their wallets, and there's a greater-than-negligible chance that one clan in an engagement has an uneven advantage as a result of access to premiums.

 

All that considered, I don't see a good argument for changing the current situation, and some clearly good reasons for keeping it as is.

 

Well that is what the forums is good for.....you guys could explain what i was missing although i did notice tech tree availability seemed a mandatory condition ( previously the German CV did not count either, now they suddenly do )

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7 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Well that is what the forums is good for.....you guys could explain what i was missing although i did notice tech tree avialability was a manadatory condition ( previously the German CV did not count either, now they suddenly do )

Aye, these forums are a good place for gaining understanding of how things work in the game. People notice different things. Bit off-topic but I'd still be a 46%-er if I'd never visited the forum.

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