Cvs are not balanced

[NGC227]

How is it possible that a japanese carrier tiers 6 can put more squadrons in air then an us carrier tiers 8, stop the garbage and balance that please, japanese t6 5 squadrons, us t8 4 squadrons.....wtf

[Sharana]

And the fact that they have 4 planes in each squadron while the americans have 6 planes in each squadron?

 

5x4 - 20 planes for the japanese. 4x6=24 planes for the american. More questions?

[Pain_Iradlac]

And the fact that they have 4 planes in each squadron while the americans have 6 planes in each squadron?

 

5x4 - 20 planes for the japanese. 4x6=24 planes for the american. More questions?

 

what he said, do the math

[MaxxyNL]

stop the garbage and balance that please

 

[Aldramelech]

There is a balance problem with carriers in that if you are playing a low tier IJN carrier and find yourself against a US one you can pretty much kiss all of your planes goodbye. Gave up on the new IJN ones pretty quickly after 4 games in a row where my entire air wing got killed without launching a single torp.

 

And yes I did all the right things, tried to find routes where I didn't get spotted, kept the ship close up to limit transit time, retreated to friendly cruiser AA and none of it made the slightest difference, get spotted, US fighters charge in, dead airwing.

[Hauptbahnhof]

There is a balance problem with carriers in that if you are playing a low tier IJN carrier and find yourself against a US one you can pretty much kiss all of your planes goodbye. Gave up on the new IJN ones pretty quickly after 4 games in a row where my entire air wing got killed without launching a single torp.

 

And yes I did all the right things, tried to find routes where I didn't get spotted, kept the ship close up to limit transit time, retreated to friendly cruiser AA and none of it made the slightest difference, get spotted, US fighters charge in, dead airwing.

 

I can assure you that if you didn't fire a single torpedo in 4 games and lost all your airplanes, then you didn't do "all the right things"...

 

I had some pretty bad games too against US fighter CVs, where it's hard to get much damage done, but the only kind of games where you don't get to fire a single torp should be if the enemy CV reach you first and manage to one-shot you.

[J_Fuller]

First of, your point is not really thought through... As already mentioned IJN have fewer planes in each squadron!

 

However your premiss that Carriers are not balanced, is correct.

 

At this point there are really no point in playing them, IJN carriers are wonderfull killers because of their setup... But if they meet enemy fighters they are dead.

If USN CV's are almost always using a fighter setup, with the effect that they might kill a fair few planes, but wont be able to damage enemy ships to any great degree... So for the USN players, either they can try bombing (but wont be as effectiv as their IJN counterpart) or use a fighter setup where they make life misrable for the IJN CV and wont get any xp...

 

In effect the CV's are more or less dead as a result... What would perhaps be a solution...

First I think the USN fighters would need to be 4 planes pr squadron, this will make the IJN fighters more durable and would be more "historical" (because fightersquadrens were smaller than bomber squadrons).

This will not make the attempt of making carriers distinct disapere... IJN CV's would still be more bomber oriented (due to more squadrongs, and the abillity to use an all bomber setup) and the USN CV's would still have a greater power in fighters. The effekt however would be that IJN fighters have a chance in winning the air battles.

 

The second thing would be to make dive-bombers better, WarGamming has said that they are toying with the idear of giving the option of AP bombs... This has to happen! But it would be nice to see how effektiv divebombers are at hitting their targets.

 

final I belive that an increas of xp and credits for killing enemy planes needs to be taken into consideration... CV's are useless without their planes, and this needs to be reflected... Every ship can kill them, but as long as it is not reflected in income, players wont help each other! Conversely the same could be made with destroying gun turrets (permanetly).

 

At this point CV's are hardly played, and unless some of the worst balanceproblems will be fixed I don't see them be more prominant ingame... And that is a shame, not only because it is a cool class of ships, but they are also some of the best BB killers, and BB's have it to easy at this point. 

[Aldramelech]

 

I can assure you that if you didn't fire a single torpedo in 4 games and lost all your airplanes, then you didn't do "all the right things"...

 

I had some pretty bad games too against US fighter CVs, where it's hard to get much damage done, but the only kind of games where you don't get to fire a single torp should be if the enemy CV reach you first and manage to one-shot you.

 

And what else was to be done? Thrall me with you wisdom oh wise master! In the first game I had 1 fighter and 2 torp squadrons, after my 1 fighter got taken out in 3 seconds flat on it's first engagement with US fighters (Over friendly AA I might add) I decided they were not worth it. The next 3 games there were only 1 carrier a side, me and a US on the other. In all three games my 3 torp squadrons got murdered, In one game I flew completely around the edge of the map in order not to get spotted and swatted. 

 

So take your "I assure you" and shove it friend.

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

And what else was to be done? Thrall me with you wisdom oh wise master! In the first game I had 1 fighter and 2 torp squadrons, after my 1 fighter got taken out in 3 seconds flat on it's first engagement with US fighters (Over friendly AA I might add) I decided they were not worth it. The next 3 games there were only 1 carrier a side, me and a US on the other. In all three games my 3 torp squadrons got murdered, In one game I flew completely around the edge of the map in order not to get spotted and swatted. 

 

It sounds like you missed one or everything in the list below:

 

- Did not split up your airplanes and used one squadron to bait fighters away to other edge of map or into AA while the other can pass.

- Didn't pay attention to where the enemy team likely have visibility and try to sneak through where they can't see you.

- Didn't pay enough attention to the location and direction of visible enemy fighter squadrons.

- Didn't have enough experience with Carriers to be able to predict the outcome of pressing the attack and when to retreat.

- Didn't attack lower priority targets with less chance of hitting ( better to have low 10% chance to hit a destroyer or cruiser near the front, then a guaranteed 0% chance to reach their BB and CV due to fighters approaching ).

 

I have so far played 50 games Japanese Carriers with either bad or no fighters at all, and in none of these games did all my airplanes get annihilated only by enemy fighters, in less then 5 of the games I ran out of airplanes very close to the end, due to making both some bad decisions in attacking too concentrated AA in combination with not having air superiority and making some mistakes in regards to avoiding enemy fighters.

 

So I say again, if you get all your airplanes shot out of the skies before dropping a single torpedo you are doing something wrong.

 

 

Also please try to be serious, no fighter squad within the normal tier range can completely annihilate another squad of fighters in 3 seconds.

[NGC227]

And the fact that they have 4 planes in each squadron while the americans have 6 planes in each squadron?

 

5x4 - 20 planes for the japanese. 4x6=24 planes for the american. More questions?

 

Man, i am talking abour a T6 jap carrier vs a T8 us carrier and u said 6 planes more for the T8 us is a big deal ? i am talking about the numbers of squadrons, 5 for a jap T6, you cant catch them with 2 squads figthers on US T8 if they split aroud the map, this is just not possible, cvs are not balanced, its T8 vs T6 and in the facts the T6 is overpowered, i have both of them and i know what i am talking about, just sunk a ranger, lure his figthers on one side and torp him on the other side and after that sunk 3 t7 bbs so easely, game over we won and seriously its crap.

[Lightbaron]

 

Man, i am talking abour a T6 jap carrier vs a T8 us carrier and u said 6 planes more for the T8 us is a big deal ? i am talking about the numbers of squadrons, 5 for a jap T6, you cant catch them with 2 squads figthers on US T8 if they split aroud the map, this is just not possible, cvs are not balanced, its T8 vs T6 and in the facts the T6 is overpowered, 

 

Where is the facepalm smiley when you need it...

The planes have survivability ratings and less planes = squadrons are shot down faster.

The IJN Carriers are not OP only because they have more squadrons.

And that is because they have 2 (in letters: TWO) planes less than the US Carriers have.

That's one third of a US squadron that's missing and in exchange they got more squadrons and imo they are ballanced.

If all they shoudl have a really hard time against the US CVs because they can pick their fighter setup and rape the IJN squadrons.

 

[NGC227]

 

Where is the facepalm smiley when you need it...

The planes have survivability ratings and less planes = squadrons are shot down faster.

The IJN Carriers are not OP only because they have more squadrons.

And that is because they have 2 (in letters: TWO) planes less than the US Carriers have.

That's one third of a US squadron that's missing and in exchange they got more squadrons and imo they are ballanced.

If all they shoudl have a really hard time against the US CVs because they can pick their fighter setup and rape the IJN squadrons.

 

 

Well you didnt play a lot carrier as i see on your profile, anyway its just my return from beta thats all, but i have take down 79 planes from my best battle on US carrier just because the IJN carriers in front didnt split a lot, if you have a clever IJN carrier player in front of you, there is no match, you will have to catch planes all over the map and my US figthers still cant use teleportation......one day maybe....one day...

[Hauptbahnhof]

 

Well you didnt play a lot carrier as i see on your profile, anyway its just my return from beta thats all, but i have take down 79 planes from my best battle on US carrier just because the IJN carriers in front didnt split a lot, if you have a clever IJN carrier player in front of you, there is no match, you will have to catch planes all over the map and my US figthers still cant use teleportation......one day maybe....one day...

 

Wait a minute... are you seriously complaining that playing USN Carriers it is to hard to shoot down Japanese airplanes???

[Lightbaron]

 

Well you didnt play a lot carrier as i see on your profile, anyway its just my return from beta thats all, but i have take down 79 planes from my best battle on US carrier just because the IJN carriers in front didnt split a lot, if you have a clever IJN carrier player in front of you, there is no match, you will have to catch planes all over the map and my US figthers still cant use teleportation......one day maybe....one day...

 

Wait, I only played 20 matches less than you so if I haven't played much CVs it's the same for you.

How about we go tier by tier

t6: 20 IJN vs 18 USN

t7: 24 IJN vs 24 USN

t8: 24 IJN vs 24 USN

Now don't tell me you want Ryujo to have 2 squadrons with 3 planes only to make her have as many planes only as Indi.

That would be crap and as it is only one difference in squadrons from t6 to t7 in the IJN tree it's the same in the USN tree.

You can't take away that squadron for ballancing reasons because it would destroy the bit of ballancing we currently have.

Also if you can't defeat Ryujo planes with your Lexington it is obviously bad play at your side since I can do it with Hiryuu and she has both weaker fighter squadrons and ship AA.

[NGC227]

Well, will we see the future of this, i dont think WG make a good deal with that balance...money... money rule the game thats all

[Lightbaron]

I am talking about tactic, and you didnt play a lot carriers too, so bbs players teaching us how to play cvs stratégy, you have no idea what you are talking about !

 

I have played more than twice as mutch battles in CVs since Alpha than you have at all, not including ST.

So yes, I have absolutely no clue and you know even less about them because you have less matches than I have, according to your argumentation.

And I will quote myself here:

 

 Also if you can't defeat Ryujo planes with your Lexington it is obviously bad play at your side since I can do it with Hiryuu and she has both weaker fighter squadrons and ship AA.

 

 

[NGC227]

 

I have played more than twice as mutch battles in CVs since Alpha than you have at all, not including ST.

So yes, I have absolutely no clue and you know even less about them because you have less matches than I have, according to your argumentation.

And I will quote myself here:

 

 

 

 

Tell what you want idk, us cv are not balanced, all players go up ijn carrier then they will be nerfed or us carriers up for WG making money, alpha was not the 3.01, think about...last post.

[Aldramelech]

 

It sounds like you missed one or everything in the list below:

 

- Did not split up your airplanes and used one squadron to bait fighters away to other edge of map or into AA while the other can pass.

- Didn't pay attention to where the enemy team likely have visibility and try to sneak through where they can't see you.

- Didn't pay enough attention to the location and direction of visible enemy fighter squadrons.

- Didn't have enough experience with Carriers to be able to predict the outcome of pressing the attack and when to retreat.

- Didn't attack lower priority targets with less chance of hitting ( better to have low 10% chance to hit a destroyer or cruiser near the front, then a guaranteed 0% chance to reach their BB and CV due to fighters approaching ).

 

I have so far played 50 games Japanese Carriers with either bad or no fighters at all, and in none of these games did all my airplanes get annihilated only by enemy fighters, in less then 5 of the games I ran out of airplanes very close to the end, due to making both some bad decisions in attacking too concentrated AA in combination with not having air superiority and making some mistakes in regards to avoiding enemy fighters.

 

So I say again, if you get all your airplanes shot out of the skies before dropping a single torpedo you are doing something wrong.

 

 

Also please try to be serious, no fighter squad within the normal tier range can completely annihilate another squad of fighters in 3 seconds.

Don't be telling me what I did or didn't do matey, I KNOW what I did thank you very much and I'm telling you that a IJN carrier vs a US carrier with a fighter set up stands no chance whatsoever. I've played nearly 800 games so far so don't be talking to me like I don't know what's going on. If your only counter argument to my opinion of low tier IJN carriers is "Your crap" then kindly keep it to yourself.

[Hauptbahnhof]

Don't be telling me what I did or didn't do matey, I KNOW what I did thank you very much and I'm telling you that a IJN carrier vs a US carrier with a fighter set up stands no chance whatsoever. I've played nearly 800 games so far so don't be talking to me like I don't know what's going on. If your only counter argument to my opinion of low tier IJN carriers is "Your crap" then kindly keep it to yourself.

 

Your supposed to be crap when you start out. I was crap and so was everyone else... That's totally natural.

 

Playing a Carrier is a totally different game then playing any other ship, it's an RTS they even said so themself.

 

And you didn't play 4 games, you only played a grand total of 3 games as an IJN Carrier ( and less then 30 other games in US low tier Carriers ).

 

If you are open to improving your game and give it a few more games you will see that it's not impossible to play IJN Carriers even against US Carriers that are fighter heavy, it's just harder. But judging by your tone it doesn't seem like listening and wanting to improve is part of your game, so go have fun and play whatever class you prefer instead, and know that some others here really like playing IJN CVs.

[Aldramelech]

 

Your supposed to be crap when you start out. I was crap and so was everyone else... That's totally natural.

 

Playing a Carrier is a totally different game then playing any other ship, it's an RTS they even said so themself.

 

And you didn't play 4 games, you only played a grand total of 3 games as an IJN Carrier ( and less then 30 other games in US low tier Carriers ).

 

If you are open to improving your game and give it a few more games you will see that it's not impossible to play IJN Carriers even against US Carriers that are fighter heavy, it's just harder. But judging by your tone it doesn't seem like listening and wanting to improve is part of your game, so go have fun and play whatever class you prefer instead, and know that some others here really like playing IJN CVs.

And what can we judge from your "tone", condescending springs to mind.

[Hauptbahnhof]

Fair enough, but I feel it may be warranted when someone shows up and state with confidence that there are balance problems with a class shipline and claim to be doing everything right. After having given up playing after only 3 unlucky games in the first ship...

 

And I suspect that the tone and the amount of useful advice you find on the forums is significantly more friendly and less "condescending" then what you may experience in the ingame chat ;)

[NGC227]

 

I have played more than twice as mutch battles in CVs since Alpha than you have at all, not including ST.

So yes, I have absolutely no clue and you know even less about them because you have less matches than I have, according to your argumentation.

And I will quote myself here:

 

 

 

 

Maaate 60.38% winrate, using Aimbot Dude ? as all the top winrate players ? Since i see that, i will listening of all your advices now

[Lightbaron]

It's 60.41% at the moment with 65.2k average damage

I used the aimprediction mod for 20 matches and removed it again after that. You can check the results of that test here if you are interested.

As you should be able to see in the results winrate is not directly related to the damage dealt but also depends on your team. I would thus suggest you to use the average damage for comparisons (xp/match are also bad because they include premium and x1.5, x2, x4,...)

The reasons I used it for that test is that I was asked to do so and so I installed it reluctantly for that test.

Next to the numbers I can say it was ugly as hell and took my atention away from the ships to that red cross. I was really happy when I was done and could remove it again.

After that I have never used it again.

Oh, and I'm really interested in what sort of aim mod I could have used for Carriers to be that much better than you with them.

I haven't played Ryujo at the liveserver but I had her as opponent quite some times and could deal with her without any problems with my Carriers (Hiryuu, Shoukaku and Lexington) thus I can't see where your problems could be.

Yes, she has some more squadrons but those are small and easy to destroy for both fighters and Carrier AA and as long as you do more than just stand still the rest of the planes shouldn't be able to hit you with more than 1 or 2 torps. Let them do that 3 times and they are out of planes for the rest of the match.

[NGC227]

It's 60.41% at the moment with 65.2k average damage

I used the aimprediction mod for 20 matches and removed it again after that. You can check the results of that test here if you are interested.

As you should be able to see in the results winrate is not directly related to the damage dealt but also depends on your team. I would thus suggest you to use the average damage for comparisons (xp/match are also bad because they include premium and x1.5, x2, x4,...)

The reasons I used it for that test is that I was asked to do so and so I installed it reluctantly for that test.

Next to the numbers I can say it was ugly as hell and took my atention away from the ships to that red cross. I was really happy when I was done and could remove it again.

After that I have never used it again.

Oh, and I'm really interested in what sort of aim mod I could have used for Carriers to be that much better than you with them.

I haven't played Ryujo at the liveserver but I had her as opponent quite some times and could deal with her without any problems with my Carriers (Hiryuu, Shoukaku and Lexington) thus I can't see where your problems could be.

Yes, she has some more squadrons but those are small and easy to destroy for both fighters and Carrier AA and as long as you do more than just stand still the rest of the planes shouldn't be able to hit you with more than 1 or 2 torps. Let them do that 3 times and they are out of planes for the rest of the match.

 

See we dont need to nerf ijn carriers but us carriers need a little buff maybe balance squadrons and add 1 more torpedo squadron, idk but they need one, i think so

[Lightbaron]

The problem with US Carriers is imo not that they can't kill all the planes of the IJNs but that they don't have the attack power they should have.

I'm sure the attack power will increase with the introduction of AP bombs but until then WG needs either to buff the US bombs or scrap the current squadron choices and give better things to pick from.