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Beastofwar

Taking the +1 fighter plane skill worth the point ?

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[BHSFL]
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From Tier IX you get 4 fighter planes that can kill as many attacking CV planes.

 

As most Tier8+ CV have around 8-9 torpedo bombers in a squadron you should take out nearly half ( 4 ) of them with the fighter consumable and with 2-3 planes flying off after delivering the 1st strike only 2-3 planes are left to make a second attack. Would it then not be beneficial to take the 1 captain skill point to get +1 fighter in the consumable ? Then there would be only 1-2 planes out of the 9 left after the first strike. And i assume AA could at least kill 1-2 after all that time spent in the three AA zones. So probably no 2nd pass....and if at all by a single plane ( if your ship really has weak AA ) tops.

 

The only exception being Hakuryu that has 12 torpedo bombers. With that captain skill you could kill 5 of them during/after the first pass with 2 flying off after dropping their load = 5 left. Assuming AA can at least kill 1 there are 4 left for 2 more passes.

 

Is this 1 point captain skill trash or is it actually worth a lot since it has a good chance to stop any torpedo bomber attack from any CV dead after the 1st pass except Hakuryu ?

 

( and i will ignore some rare CV players that drop their consumable fighters on ship consumable fighters while they aggro them here as most CV players will not do that or fail at the exact right timing excecuting that )

 

 

 

 

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[BHSFL]
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1 minute ago, Lebedjev said:

Fighter plane are useless.

 

When used at the correct timing they kill many more planes then AA does ( on it's own )

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FIghter planes are not useless, they are one of the msot OP things you can have as a CV for spotting the enemy team.
Many tiems ive left a fighter to spot the enemy team, and without it, my team wouldnt off bee nable to shoot anything.

So Fighters are useful, if you know when and where to use them.

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11 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

When used at the correct timing they kill many more planes then AA does ( on it's own )

 

Ship fighters can't adapt to a CV who can dodge flak and/or change speed. They can only shoot down potato squadrons that mindlessly fly into their patrol zones at a constant speed. 

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In my experience CVs usually send back squadron after first drop if they see fighter because it can shoot down many in the downtime, and fighters prove a much bigger deterrence for CVs than lots of AA and CVs will avoid them or do just one drop.

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[PUPSI]
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I honestly struggle to think of a ship or build where I couldn't put that point to better use.

 

Algérie was probably the nearest. Definitely going PT, EM, SI, CE, DE, AR for 15 points. Personally I'd then go EL, PM, and LS or maybe JoAT for the last 4 and struggle to see the extra fighter as a better investment than any of those. YMMV of course.

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[L4GG]
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I have + 1 fighter plane + SE which gives more HP to what i put up there and i try to put as much as i can up there.

Radar and Hydro Just went over board in exchange for Def AA

 

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[MUMMY]
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51 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

( and i will ignore some rare CV players that drop their consumable fighters on ship consumable fighters while they aggro them here as most CV players will not do that or fail at the exact right timing excecuting that )

 

Will you also ignore people that calculate their estimated losses and minimum required strike force to penetrate a targets AA to make a drop by pre-dropping?

 

Fighters will not stop a prepared first strike and even if they trigger on shortened squads, you still play by the enemy CV's demands. Knowing the risks of a sudden squad wipe or useless losses by fighters, enemy CV or surprise dakka botes, somehow competent yet not super rare CV players will reduce their squads to search and probe for targets that isolate, trigger consumables or dont get CV support, just to cash in with the full squad and multiple strikes, when the risk of losses is estimated and much lower.

 

Even if you pick fighters and get to shoot down 4 enemy planes, it really depends on the matchup how effective your fighters are/were. Attacking squad type, time spent in the fighter zone(speed, preperation time, etc.) and time to restore, all have influence on how effective your fighters will be. Sometimes you even manage to scare off an attack by this, but if a CV takes (or ingores) the estimated losses, you will not prevent a strike. A Saipan suffers much more from fighters than an Enterprise, some KM CVs can even boost in and catapult out of the fighters active zone without activating them, while still doing a strike, just to turn around outside of your active zone and AA, to come back even faster, thanks to AR.

 

I think +1 fighters are generally more on the "nice to have" side, because their effectiveness depends on the matchup and is not that much of an advantage. The primary focus should be on improving a ships strengths or to balance out weaknesses, most points will be used up there. If you still have a single point left, yeah sure - why not. Go for it. Unless you are speccing a CV captain, then dont do it.

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[TORAZ]
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No.

Assuming it is a squad of 9 with an attack wing of 3, 3 of those planes will drop before fighter aggros and with AA likely killing off a plane on approach that's 5 planes remaining. Fighter will kill off 4 of those and AA will kill the remaining one, thus it doesn't matter whether you put up 4 or 5 fighters assuming your base AA isn't complete garbage.

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[DEFR]
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1 hour ago, ZifTTroll said:

In my experience CVs usually send back squadron after first drop if they see fighter because it can shoot down many in the downtime, and fighters prove a much bigger deterrence for CVs than lots of AA and CVs will avoid them or do just one drop.

Correct. If you attack a ship and he launches fighter planes. You might as well "F out" after the first attack, as your planes won't get a second attack in and will just get obliterated by the ships  fighter planes while doing the turn trying to get a second attack run in

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[DAKKA]
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Fighter can situationally prevent a second strike (and even then,player can launch a second attack if the fighter plane didn't aggro at the first attack when timing the run properly); but +1 fighter never matter.

 

The only situation it could in theory be good would be a t5 cruiser with bad AA to make it a 3 squadron, against t4 CV. But even then, plane regen is a joke at t4, so loss don't matter.

 

To be honest, I find both plane consumable underwelming.

My philosophy is to take anything else if available and if you have to choose between spotter and fighter, take figther, because I can't find a reason to take it. Most ship have atrocious ballistic past their max range.

 

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[MORIA]
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3 hours ago, TeaAndTorps said:

I honestly struggle to think of a ship or build where I couldn't put that point to better use.

 

T6 cruisers like Dallas or Graf Spee. Although there are more useful skills to use than this one. 

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[MUMMY]
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OP...

 

To answer your question; I must tell you a tale.

I had to go back 3 weeks in a WhatsApp chat.

I relived many things; videos of P-47 Thunderbolts, WG Codes posted weeks ago, one real; many spoof.  

Saving Private Ryan Task Manager gifs.

To answer your question; does one use the extra fighter perk?  Search Reddit for "Catapult Fighter Consumable is useless" (make sure your sound is one for top lols.)

 

I wish you well vs the Sky edited* Captain :cap_like:

 

edit: please watch the language

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[BHSFL]
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10 hours ago, Nov_A said:

Will you also ignore people that calculate their estimated losses and minimum required strike force to penetrate a targets AA to make a drop by pre-dropping?

 

Fighters will not stop a prepared first strike and even if they trigger on shortened squads, you still play by the enemy CV's demands. Knowing the risks of a sudden squad wipe or useless losses by fighters, enemy CV or surprise dakka botes, somehow competent yet not super rare CV players will reduce their squads to search and probe for targets that isolate, trigger consumables or dont get CV support, just to cash in with the full squad and multiple strikes, when the risk of losses is estimated and much lower.

 

Even if you pick fighters and get to shoot down 4 enemy planes, it really depends on the matchup how effective your fighters are/were. Attacking squad type, time spent in the fighter zone(speed, preperation time, etc.) and time to restore, all have influence on how effective your fighters will be. Sometimes you even manage to scare off an attack by this, but if a CV takes (or ingores) the estimated losses, you will not prevent a strike. A Saipan suffers much more from fighters than an Enterprise, some KM CVs can even boost in and catapult out of the fighters active zone without activating them, while still doing a strike, just to turn around outside of your active zone and AA, to come back even faster, thanks to AR.

 

I think +1 fighters are generally more on the "nice to have" side, because their effectiveness depends on the matchup and is not that much of an advantage. The primary focus should be on improving a ships strengths or to balance out weaknesses, most points will be used up there. If you still have a single point left, yeah sure - why not. Go for it. Unless you are speccing a CV captain, then dont do it.

 

I had indeed not taken into account CV players shorten their attack wing. I rarely do that as i want to be able to make 2-3 passes out of a Squadron. Even 4 passes with some Squadrons. But at least 2 minimal.

 

If a CV player does shorten his attack wing there isn't going to be a 2nd strike anyway ( except for Hakuryu )  which goes against the CV rework mechanics that are designed on stacking damage of multiple passes out of 1 squadron. Yes, with only 1 pass the +1 fighter skill is useless and fighter plane consumable is also useless.

 

Then the question remains....how many CV players actually shorten their attack wing ? Does this have anything to do with the modules they pick ? I mean i read some choose concealment over plane replenishment making it obvious they are more carefull about plane losses as they would actually suffer plane losses.

 

Interesting is when gimping your stacking damage potential ( only 1 attack ) and facing way more flytime per attack ( you have to fly back 3x to do the same damage a 1 squadron could do  with 3 passes  ) does not hurt their performance ? Or is it a necessity because they did not pick higher plane regeneration and would be deplaned for choosing concealment ? Does it even pay off to be 1-2 km closer to action if you have to fly back 3 x for a single pass while you could have delivered 3 passes ? I guess it could as coming around for another pass 3 x cost time too....

 

I  don't think WG designers taken into account CV players gimping their attack potential by shortening their squadrons to 1 pass only and with it making other mechanics useless with that as well. It is interesting that it seems to work though.....but how many CV players play that way and how many CV players play by intended game mechanics ?

 

If 85 % of all CV players play by intended game machnics it is far from useless employing intended game mechancis against them is it not ?

 

 

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[THESO]
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1 hour ago, Beastofwar said:

which goes against the CV rework mechanics

so squad shortening is against the game mechanics? WUT??? 

You planning to brand that as cheating? like.. I don't know.. "dodging torpedoes is cheating?"

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22 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

so squad shortening is against the game mechanics? WUT??? 

You planning to brand that as cheating? like.. I don't know.. "dodging torpedoes is cheating?"

 

No dude....it is just player behaviour outside the design of the reworked CV mechanics.  It's up to WG to plug such possibilities or leave it be. Not getting maximum plane regeneration but getting a little more concealement is a choice afterall.

 

You can figure if designed counters like fighter consumables are considered wortheles something went wrong with anticipating on intended player behaviour right ?

 

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[THESO]
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1 minute ago, Beastofwar said:

You can figure if designed counters like fighter consumbales are considered wortheles somehting went wrong with intended player behaviour right ?

If you ask me.. no.. 
Fighters are designed to kill in the same amount of their own squadron. 

And they do that quite good.. most of the times.. 

but there are way to trick to fighters, dodge the fighters, outrun the fighters, pull them over your own blob etc etc.. 

and If you say, fighters MUST PREVENT at least 1 strike because that is how they are designed.. 

I strongly disagree with you.. they are a mechanic in the game, and If you ask me a strong one.. 

there is (and there must be) counter mechanics against them.. 

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what do you think about the additional fighter on the CV equipment. And by the way, what do you think about increasing the duration of the cv consumables by 50% to increase the spot time

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