Fubuki-Needs a fix

[Userext]

So 35 knots with 630meters turning radius might aswell put this to cruiser line...

I had enough with this. I have been trying not to open this kind of thread but i kinda cant take it anymore. Can this destroyer get some love? Gearing got buffed to its consealment so it is possible to buff the destoryers right? I cant dodge the torp that is coming right at me 90 degree. I have the upgrades and such to make the ship have faster rudder shift(2.6sec) but it just doesnt work i died 4 times by a torpedo hit that caught me from 90 degree angle. I tried diffrent thing each one of them. Cut the speed front of the ship hit 17k damage torpedo insta killed me. Tried to turn into it while cutting the speed it hit the front of my ship(again) and insta kill. Tried to overrun it and turn towards it so save my [edited]but wasnt fast enough(there is that 630meter turning radius for you) 

 

And the main part where it annoys me the most these torp hits werent fired directly at me a DD or an IJNCA fires his torps to another ship but i end up being the one to get spiked

Yes it kinda is a good ship but damn that maneuverability some BBs turn better than me some cruisers are faster than me if an Iowa chases me i cant fight back (Iowa 33knots) what is this? a low tier cruiser? Historcially fubuki had 39 knots speed. Can you please consider buffing the maneuverability for this ship?

[Takeda92]

Yeah, today I couldn't dodge a torpedo because my turning was too wide, a battleship would have done it better.

 

Lol might as well target destroyers as torpedo targets since they are more likely to get hit!

[Vogel]

Think the devs went a bit overboard with buffing BBs rudder shift time. The short turning radius is perfectly fine, but the rudder shift time should be increased substantially to compensate. After all, it takes a good portion of time before such a huge hulk of mass is able to change direction.

[rigawe]

Might as well wait for the next patch to play DD again...

[Userext]

Think the devs went a bit overboard with buffing BBs rudder shift time. The short turning radius is perfectly fine, but the rudder shift time should be increased substantially to compensate. After all, it takes a good portion of time before such a huge hulk of mass is able to change direction.

 

so why does a ship small like fubuki takes a huge turning radius?

i m okay with BB turning thing all i want this ship to be brought back from death

[Vogel]

Because it is long and narrow, meaning that it will have a large turning movement of inertia due to all that water that needs to be pushed to the side, plus the turning poin is in the rear (rudder). But they only need to buff it's turning circle a little to make it better

[Userext]

Because it is long and narrow, meaning that it will have a large turning movement of inertia due to all that water that needs to be pushed to the side, plus the turning poin is in the rear (rudder). But they only need to buff it's turning circle a little to make it better

 

long ? a battleship is longer but the thing i m talknig about here is about turning radius minekaze has 580 meter turning radius and sims has 500 meter turning radius

 

Sims 

Type:	Destroyer
Displacement:	1,570 tons (standard) 2,465 tons (full load)
Length:	348 ft 4 in
Beam:	36 ft 0 in
Draft:	13 ft 4 in
Propulsion:	3 Boilers 2 Westinghouse Turbines (50,000 horsepower)
Speed:	37.7 knots

 

Fubuki

Length:	111.96 m (367.3 ft) pp, 115.3 m (378 ft) waterline 118.41 m (388.5 ft) overall
Beam:	10.4 m (34 ft 1 in)
Draft:	3.2 m (10 ft 6 in)
Propulsion:	2 shaft Kampon geared turbines 4 (Groups I & II) or 3 (Group III) boilers 50,000 hp (37,000 kW)
Speed:	38 knots (44 mph; 70 km/h)

4 × Kampon type boilers,
2 × Kampon Type Ro geared turbines,
2 × shafts at 50,000 ihp (37,000 kW)

 

why does sims has 500 meter turning radius and fubuki 630meters? they arent much diffrent but fubuki has a really bad turning radius at least 38 knots speed and 580 meter turning radius is needed

[Interdiction]

Did these type of ships have bow thrusters ? 

[Vogel]

No, but bow thrusters don't work at forward speed anyway. The flow past the tunnel inlet will prevent water from being sucked in and "wash away" the thrust on the other side

 

EDIT: I agree with you Userext

[WhoCares01]

It's a common misconception that a small ship will always have a better turning circle than a large ship.

I can't verify his sources unfortunately, so just a "second hand" source, but I was explicitely googling for a fact I heard/read about many years ago (10-15 years if not more) that the Fletcher class destroyers had a very big turning circle, and Google came up with this post:

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/10394-how-big-a-factor-will-speed-be/page__st__40__pid__348487#entry348487

Azumazi

 ...

So in order on US Destroyers from Fletcher on up in turn radius you have the following.

 

Fletcher: 1.1km

Sumner: 850m

Gearing: 890m

 

Comparing them to the Japanese Destroyers towards the end of the war

 

Fubuki 780m//920m

Kagero 890m

Akizuki 770m

Shimakaze 780m

 

...

 

Note also his other post on battleships further up.

Spoiler

 

Honestly it really depends on the battleship if they follow historical design.

 

The Nagato had a turn radius roughly around 723 meters after modernized, before it was around 780m, the Iowa class had a 744m turn radius at 30 knots, but at its max speed at 33 knots it was near 800m, the Yamato a 640m radius at 27 knots dropping it 26 by half way into the turn.

 

The Fuso had an abysmal turn radius of around 850 meters at full speed.

The Scharnhorst, at 27.5 knots, had a near 863m turn radius

 

The US standards had between a 640-700m turn radius.

 

As for other Battleships, I cannot say off hand. The reality is, at say, 6km out, the US Standards and the Yamato have a good chance to comb torpedo's with it's tight turn radius compared to other battleships, the Fuso is just fubared on that department.

 

The US Standards had great turn radius due to their wider hull design vs length, the same applies to the Yamato. So different ships will have different characteristics. Basically, the faster vessels generally have a larger turn radius while the slower wider vessels have better ones, but there are exceptions to this rule such as the KGV class, Vanguard class, and the Bismarck.

 

This Bismarck, with its nice wide beam, had around a 1.1km turn radius at 30 knots, this is an exception to the rule, but it did have a nice 690m turn radius at 14 knots.

 

The general rule of ship building for Dreadnought class and up was that 5 ship lengths in a turn was acceptable, and 3 ship lengths excellent.

 

The Yamato at 263m overall with a 640m turn radius puts it below the 3 ship lengths. To compare, the USS Colorado was 190m with a near 645m turn radius at 21 knots. That is a little over 3 ship lengths making it an excellent turning radius.

 

[Takeda92]

One suggestion is that torpedo acquisition would be based on class. Cruisers would spot them the furthest, then destroyers and Battleships would spot them the latest, making BB requiring support much more important!

[CloakingDonkey]

it doesn't really matter though how they turn IRL because IRL you're not putting destroyers against battleships 1:1 ... this is a game and that game needs balance and right now, destroyers are a nice big helping of fail and this turning circle nonsense has pushed it over the edge. We need some bloody sanity restored because it has been a week now and there's still 10 times as many battleships queueing as everything else... You don't need a high school degree to figure out why suddenly everyone is playing battleships and destroyer numbers vary wildly from 0 to 6.

[Aerroon]

 

long ? a battleship is longer but the thing i m talknig about here is about turning radius minekaze has 580 meter turning radius and sims has 500 meter turning radius

 

Sims 

Type:	Destroyer
Displacement:	1,570 tons (standard) 2,465 tons (full load)
Length:	348 ft 4 in
Beam:	36 ft 0 in
Draft:	13 ft 4 in
Propulsion:	3 Boilers 2 Westinghouse Turbines (50,000 horsepower)
Speed:	37.7 knots

 

Fubuki

Length:	111.96 m (367.3 ft) pp, 115.3 m (378 ft) waterline 118.41 m (388.5 ft) overall
Beam:	10.4 m (34 ft 1 in)
Draft:	3.2 m (10 ft 6 in)
Propulsion:	2 shaft Kampon geared turbines 4 (Groups I & II) or 3 (Group III) boilers 50,000 hp (37,000 kW)
Speed:	38 knots (44 mph; 70 km/h)

4 × Kampon type boilers,
2 × Kampon Type Ro geared turbines,
2 × shafts at 50,000 ihp (37,000 kW)

 

why does sims has 500 meter turning radius and fubuki 630meters? they arent much diffrent but fubuki has a really bad turning radius at least 38 knots speed and 580 meter turning radius is needed

 

Fubuki is 35 kts top speed ingame for whatever reason, not 38 kts like she was historically.

[Userext]

it doesn't really matter though how they turn IRL because IRL you're not putting destroyers against battleships 1:1 ... this is a game and that game needs balance and right now, destroyers are a nice big helping of fail and this turning circle nonsense has pushed it over the edge. We need some bloody sanity restored because it has been a week now and there's still 10 times as many battleships queueing as everything else... You don't need a high school degree to figure out why suddenly everyone is playing battleships and destroyer numbers vary wildly from 0 to 6.

 

it doesnt matter, thats true. This is a game but would you prefer to see bismarck with 200meter turning rdius and yamato with 800 meter turning radius? they still need to stick to some historical parts while not breaking the balance

Fubuki? that thing had 38 knots speed normally i dont understand why would they make ANY destroyer above tier 5 have les than 37 knots

[OldGrandad]

I guess I picked the wrong time to start playing DD's............ 

 

[CloakingDonkey]

 

it doesnt matter, thats true. This is a game but would you prefer to see bismarck with 200meter turning rdius and yamato with 800 meter turning radius? they still need to stick to some historical parts while not breaking the balance

Fubuki? that thing had 38 knots speed normally i dont understand why would they make ANY destroyer above tier 5 have les than 37 knots

 

I agree the Fubuki needs a mobility buff... all the IJN destroyers need some kind of buff to bring them in line with the USN destroyers and then all destroyers need a boost somehow

 

And I wouldn't use the term historical, I'd use authentic... you know? like how CoD isn't realistic but feels authentic. Fast, nippy destroyers and big lumbering battleships feels more authentic than the current incarnation of nonsense.

[Userext]

I guess I picked the wrong time to start playing DD's............ 

 

You damn right picked the wrong time  but minekaze isnt bad but again that would make no sense for "testing" purposes 

[Vogel]

It's a common misconception that a small ship will always have a better turning circle than a large ship.

I can't verify his sources unfortunately, so just a "second hand" source, but I was explicitely googling for a fact I heard/read about many years ago (10-15 years if not more) that the Fletcher class destroyers had a very big turning circle, and Google came up with this post:

 

 

In general the theory holds water. I suspect the difference in turning circle for similarly sized vessels are due to the effectiveness of the rudder, and how stable the vessel are while turning. A top-heavy DD cannot turn as tight as a DD with lower metacentric height. In the example with Sims/Fubuki, we can see that they are similarly sized, but the simz have a larger draft and are wider, thus (in theory) having better stability. This in turn means a shorter turning circle diameter (and probably a whole lot of other things as well, including hull shape).

 

For gameplay purposes, I think they should be a lit more liberal with real data, especialy since the ship scale and distance scale isn't identical.

 

[Userext]

And i m still sitting here waiting for WG to buff this thing's mobility. today 2 CVs out run me because i had to use my main armament after losing 2 turrets... Guess who won 

 

Independence has 31.8 top speed fubuki has 35 how the fudge am i supposed to hunt them with "torps"

[SBS]

I really need to take my Fubuki out of port now that I have gotten home. But they really seem to have gone overboard with the turn buffs for a lot of ships in my opinion. You got to go to suicide ranges to hurt people with torps at the range most people spot them, as anyone half decent can evade all if not most.

 

[Nechrom]

This thread can be extended to the Kagero as well.

Basically the same speed and maneuverability, even worse AA, better torpedoes and no reason to swap out the 3rd turret.

 

IJN DDs are basically just bad vehicles for good torpedoes. Light cruisers with bad maneuverability and low spotting range.

[Takeda92]

This thread can be extended to the Kagero as well.

Basically the same speed and maneuverability, even worse AA, better torpedoes and no reason to swap out the 3rd turret.

 

IJN DDs are basically just bad vehicles for good torpedoes. Light cruisers with bad maneuverability and low spotting range.

 

No need to extend it. I'll make sure to make one about Kagerou in specific as soon as I reach her

[Aerroon]

And i m still sitting here waiting for WG to buff this thing's mobility. today 2 CVs out run me because i had to use my main armament after losing 2 turrets... Guess who won 

 

Independence has 31.8 top speed fubuki has 35 how the fudge am i supposed to hunt them with "torps"

 

Well, at least they nerfed Lexington's speed.

 

It used to be that Fubuki was 35 kts and Lexington was 35 kts. Historically Lexington was 33 kts and Fubuki was 38 kts.

 

PS what do you want to know about destroyers?

[Double_Blickaz]

I just got the Fubuki and played it like a suicidal maniac as usual, but the main thing about destroyers in this game especially the Japanese ones are stealth hence the ability to stalk. I usually engage 7-8kms and close quarters 4-5 kms with smoke of course. But having the buffs you are all talking about would be absolutely welcomed especially during close engagements these DDs would over night be kings of close quarter combat. I cannot wait till I get the Shimakaze though with those quintuplet launchers hahahha.

[fnord_disc]

It should be added that while the turn radius on battleships is currently not too unrealistic, their response time is.

 

Real battleships do not respond this fast to rudder changes.