Summer Sale in the Premium Shop and Armory!

[YabbaCoe]

Před 2 hodinami ShortySunderland řekl/a:

I do have to admit the sheer focus and determination of the staff here not to even acknowledge the dumpsterfire this whole "sale" caused, and that WG are being torn a new one over this. I assume this takes a certain amount of training (or an incredibly repressive office-culture) to be able to pull that off. It's like Crys, Con, Yabba,... are all industrially coated in Teflon, to which nothing sticks.  

  

When can we expect the "we're sorry this event did not meet your expectations, we'll collect the feedback and forward them to the appropriate departments"-post? If ever?

I can even say that, what you mentioned, but with slight change:

We decided to make Summer Sale happen in this format, to offer the option to buy previously popular boxes, for collectors special ships and for example Premium Ship Container for the first time. We understand, that expectations based on previous years was completely different and we are sorry, if that didn't please you. Probably somebody will be interested in this offer. We gathered feedback from you guys and we forwarded that to devs, so basically appropriate departments. 

I can't really say, if next time it will be the same, or we will return to previous style, or we will do something different.

 

Před 2 hodinami Execute0rder66 řekl/a:

 

The reason for the confusion and unpleasant feedback with this event is because previous sales which were introduced by WG were sales for ships.

 

This event gives you tokens for sale, not ships. And with these tokens players should try their chances out to get a ship. They may or may not get a ship although they would spend same or more amount of money than they would in previous events.

 

Of course, it is at WG's discretion whether to throw such an even or not at all but if they do throw one like this, is it the player base's fault to be upset with it? 

The WG answer is above "Well, if you don't like the event, don't spend money on it. You know what you were buying and no one forced you into buying"....

 

People will call this event anything because they are upset. They are upset with the way it was introduced, designed, and with roll chances. They are upset because they realize or see the company of the game that they like to play keeps screwing them up. They either get screwed up by not given the previous SALES which included sales on ships directly or they get screwed with being force to spend more money to try their chances or they are screwed up by ending up without an event if they decide not to spend. 

 

Check the forum and you will see how many people are upset with this event except a couple lucky ones with usual WG akissers. 

 

 

 

I completely understand that. Probably the word "Sale" was the biggest problem here, as Sale can be understood in two different ways:

it is either the exchange of a commodity for money; the action of selling something or it is connected for with the discount period of time. 

 

Před 2 hodinami zekai7498 řekl/a:

You think i will ever buy anything again?If you were me,would you?

Difficult to say, as it depends on plenty circumstances, but probably yes, I would give a try. Probably twice, not more 

[_HomTanks_]

14 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

I completely understand that. Probably the word "Sale" was the biggest problem here, as Sale can be understood in two different ways:

it is either the exchange of a commodity for money; the action of selling something or it is connected for with the discount period of time. 

Exactly. A sale in definition of discount on certain ships that were chosen by WG for this event was expected by the community because that was the norm previously. Hence the frustration or at least this is what i perceived from the forum. Wanna make players happy (because happy customer spends money, not the unhappy one) ? :) Bring back sales on ships, bring back Halloween Events, give players coupons, present better solutions to CVs, keep CVs out of competitive arena until its balance problems are sorted out, keep this Ranked Sprint mode 3vs3 as a separate mode as it was a fun mode and highly praised by many players (from newest ones to most veterans), lower the prices of steel camos, make Research Bureau more attractive, introduce new maps (not remake ones), introduce more historical unique commanders. lower the coal price of current Historical Unique Commanders to a more reasonable price, etc.

 

Below is a link to the thread where you can see 83% of 48 players voted "Yes" for new Unique Historical Commanders. 

 

 

Cheers,

[Aetius85]

Generally a sale is a discount on some goods. Here is again a gambling game with RNG packages. Bought some and didn't win anything apart some signals. This is the last time I open my wallet to try the luck with packages.

Next time please use the correct terminology, don't call "Sale" a gamble game.

[olixor]

It definitely isn't the first definition of what a "sale" is, the shop isn't filled with "exchanges", it is filled with (virtual) commodities that a customer will buy. It is only when they buy it the "exchange" takes place.

Like, you really cannot deny that using the word "sale" was meant to hype up this whole event because it is the second definition of it that makes people excited. So technically it is just bait, a big fat lie.

[Hanse77SWE]

2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

We decided to make Summer Sale happen in this format, to offer the option to buy previously popular boxes, for collectors special ships and for example Premium Ship Container for the first time.

Great for the newer players but for us of the old guard there is practically nothing.  Nothing new. Nothing "cheap". Nothing.

[YabbaCoe]

Před 29 minutami Aetius85 řekl/a:

Generally a sale is a discount on some goods. Here is again a gambling game with RNG packages. Bought some and didn't win anything apart some signals. This is the last time I open my wallet to try the luck with packages.

Next time please use the correct terminology, don't call "Sale" a gamble game.

As I mentioned, it is not generally true. I just went for google to actually find the definition of the word sale :

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sale

Hopefully Cambridge would be reliable source of information here. 

As you can see, first it is a noun of the verb sell. But also a noun for cheaper price. So let's say, this Summer Sale is Sale where we are selling stuff, technically speaking. So without (unfortunately) having much discounts over there, still we can call this a sale, because it is a sale. 

[Carandraug]

17 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

As I mentioned, it is not generally true. I just went for google to actually find the definition of the word sale :

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sale

Hopefully Cambridge would be reliable source of information here. 

As you can see, first it is a noun of the verb sell. But also a noun for cheaper price. So let's say, this Summer Sale is Sale where we are selling stuff, technically speaking. So without (unfortunately) having much discounts over there, still we can call this a sale, because it is a sale. 

While technically correct, i think the damage control explanation is a bit misleading. I dare you to find another "Summer Sale" anywhere WITHOUT the discount meaning. Actually in your quoted Cambridge dictionary commerce definition the "discount" meaning of "sale" is specifically tied to the season/month/timeframe. So "Summer Sale" is quite clearly meant in such way.

[TheBicentennialman]

a period during which a shop or dealer sells goods at reduced prices.

the exchange of a commodity for money; the action of selling something.

 

If you provide facilities for remote gambling (online or through other means), and advertise to consumers in Britain, you will need a licence from the Gambling

Because of their use of random chance to gain items after committing real-world funds, games using loot boxes may be considered a form of gambling

 

 

 

[olixor]

2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

As I mentioned, it is not generally true. I just went for google to actually find the definition of the word sale :

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sale

Hopefully Cambridge would be reliable source of information here. 

As you can see, first it is a noun of the verb sell. But also a noun for cheaper price. So let's say, this Summer Sale is Sale where we are selling stuff, technically speaking. So without (unfortunately) having much discounts over there, still we can call this a sale, because it is a sale. 

Then I guess there is no point arguing if both sides just keep googling the definition of the word until they find one that fits their narrative, even after the start of the event.

 

All I can say is I hope the developers/marketing team/whoever is in charge of all of this learns from it but with all honesty I really doubt they will or even care to learn after everything that happened of the year(s).

 

 

[Gvozdika]

39 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

As I mentioned, it is not generally true. I just went for google to actually find the definition of the word sale :

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sale

Hopefully Cambridge would be reliable source of information here. 

As you can see, first it is a noun of the verb sell. But also a noun for cheaper price. So let's say, this Summer Sale is Sale where we are selling stuff, technically speaking. So without (unfortunately) having much discounts over there, still we can call this a sale, because it is a sale. 

 

I also used google until I found something that backed up my argument. This is what I found. 

 

'Gambling (also known as betting) is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements to be present: consideration (an amount wagered), risk (chance), and a prize.'

 

Happy to help!

 

EDIT TO ADD - It's VERY dangerous territory to start telling us (many of whom being native English speakers) that we actually don't understand the generally accepted meaning of certain words in OUR OWN LANGUAGE. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

2 hours ago, olixor said:

Then I guess there is no point arguing if both sides just keep googling the definition of the word until they find one that fits their narrative, even after of the start of the even.

YabbaCoe didn't google any random source on the internet, but a quite respectable dictionary.

 

That said, the following statement is still largely besides the point:

2 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

As you can see, first it is a noun of the verb sell. But also a noun for cheaper price. So let's say, this Summer Sale is Sale where we are selling stuff, technically speaking. So without (unfortunately) having much discounts over there, still we can call this a sale, because it is a sale. 

 

Yes, you can claim that technically any transaction is a "sale". But the "summer sale" is an established event in the WoWs-calender. It has always been a "sale" in the meaning of discounts on regular products. This expectation didn't come out of the blue, it was established by WG in this very meaning.

So it's an evasive defence to duck behind the various definitions of the word "sale".

You guys know what a sale in that context means and you know the player base was expecting exactly that, discounts on ships.

 

Also the whole argument of "we decided to go that way this year" is besides the point. The loot-boxes do not conflict with a sale on ships. There is no restriction to go one way or the other. Wargaming could have done discounted ships and loot-boxes at the same time or could have sold the loot-boxes in a later extra event like a "halloween tombola".

As long as loot-boxes are as attractive to the customer as a straight discount, there is no conflict.

 

It would only be a conflict, if you expect people to buy the discounted ships and ignore the loot-boxes. And even that would only be a conflict, if you expect people to spend more on the unknown content of the loot-boxes to get ships than if they just buy what they want. And that WG expected, didn't you?

So the whole talk about definitions of "sale" is just that, a technical excuse to justify another gambling event.

 

[___ax___]

i like it how people are complaining about gambling cuz of the boxes and not realising that the game itself is a gamble whenever you click "battle": 0.00001% chance you will win that battle :D

[svadilfari]

meh i think this sale is fine as is. maybe wg could´ve put some premiums on sale in addition, i guess

[YabbaCoe]

Před 14 hodinami HMS_Kilinowski řekl/a:

YabbaCoe didn't google any random source on the internet, but a quite respectable dictionary.

 

That said, the following statement is still largely besides the point:

 

Yes, you can claim that technically any transaction is a "sale". But the "summer sale" is an established event in the WoWs-calender. It has always been a "sale" in the meaning of discounts on regular products. This expectation didn't come out of the blue, it was established by WG in this very meaning.

So it's an evasive defence to duck behind the various definitions of the word "sale".

You guys know what a sale in that context means and you know the player base was expecting exactly that, discounts on ships.

 

Also the whole argument of "we decided to go that way this year" is besides the point. The loot-boxes do not conflict with a sale on ships. There is no restriction to go one way or the other. Wargaming could have done discounted ships and loot-boxes at the same time or could have sold the loot-boxes in a later extra event like a "halloween tombola".

As long as loot-boxes are as attractive to the customer as a straight discount, there is no conflict.

 

It would only be a conflict, if you expect people to buy the discounted ships and ignore the loot-boxes. And even that would only be a conflict, if you expect people to spend more on the unknown content of the loot-boxes to get ships than if they just buy what they want. And that WG expected, didn't you?

So the whole talk about definitions of "sale" is just that, a technical excuse to justify another gambling event.

 

I just wanted to reply to those, that were saying, that we can't name this sale as sale is only discount. Fact is, that sales are very often connected with discounts, but it is not the same thing.

But sorry if I offended your language, true is, that I am basically learning new things about English every day.

 

You are correct, that probably along with those boxes we should also discount some ships, we all would benefit from that. But as the Summer Sale was launched in a state as it is, it can't be changed. But still it is important for us to know, what is your stance towards this scheme, if it works, makes sense, or as you are often mentioning, what would you prefer to have there. I am not saying, that we will definitely do, as you wish, but we usually take a look on your common opinion and after that we decide how to proceed further and what to do next in the future.

[defender128]

On 8/25/2020 at 10:12 AM, YabbaCoe said:

I am sorry for you, it can eventually happen, that you won't get desired things from the boxes. As you can see from the comments, those ships are out there. 

But please, don't call this a robbery. You knew, what you are buying and that from those boxes you will get one of the things listed in the description. I understand, that you are unhappy with this, but you bought those tokens willingly and you got the stuff, that could drop from those. You haven't got anything special, but you definitely weren't robbed...

 

Oh my god, leave the guy alone. What kind of moderator are you? He bought your company's crap boxes and got basically nothing from it, because you won't even tell the odds.

 

And then you go and rub it in his face with your smug comments like yea you got crap, but ships are there, others got them. How do you think this makes him feel?

 

And even "you knew what you are buying". No he didn't, wtf. Don't you get that this is the main problem with this "sale".

 

Sometimes your attitude towards (paying) costumers is unbelievable.

[HMS_Kilinowski]

7 hours ago, defender128 said:

 He bought your company's crap boxes and got basically nothing from it, because you won't even tell the odds.

 

Exactly, that would be another take-home message for WG-staff:

 

Consumers finally want to know the probability of getting a certain item from a gambling container.

 

If I got a 0.01% chance of getting a ship, even a single cent is pricey for a container. If it's a 10% chance, 4€ could be too much. At least it's not a bargain. WG is deliberatly keeping its customers from making an informed choice.

 

I, and I dare say many players, cannot understand why WG is keeping the odds a big secret. It rationally only makes sense, if the buyer gets cheated. So logically, I must assume I get cheated. That greatly reduces my willingness to spend money.

 

On top of that, players who bought containers and got nothing, will believe, the odds are unrealistically low. They feel insulted by an attempt to trick me into believing in higher than actual probabilities. So not only will they hesitate to spend money in the future, because they don't know what they get. They will, on top of that, not spend money, because they feel spite and anger over feeling tricked. That is not a basis for a good business relationship.

 

And yes, I will in the future only refer to these so-called "loot-boxes" as gambling-containers, cause that is the correct term.

Why should I play along and help the gaming industry disguise their gambling content behind harmless designations such as "loot-box"? We players must stop aiding and abetting these funny legal claims of gambling content not being gambling content, by not adapting this new-speak terminology.

[VonBlund]

13 minutos antes, HMS_Kilinowski dijo:

 

Exactly, that would be another take-home message for WG-staff: Consumers finally want to know the probability of getting a certain item from a gambling container.

If I got a 0.01% chance of getting a ship, even a single cent is pricey for a container. If it's a 10% chance, 4€ could be too much. At least it's not a bargain.

  

I, and I dare say many players, cannot understand why WG is keeping the odds a big secret. It only makes sense, if the buyer gets cheated. So logically, I must assume I get cheated. That greatly reduces my willingness to spend money.

  

On top of that, players who bought containers and got nothing, will believe, the odds are unrealistically low. They feel insulted by an attempt to trick me into believing in higher than actual probabilities. So not only will they hesitate to spend money in the future, because they don't know what they get. They will, on top of that, not spend money, because they feel spite and anger over feeling tricked. That is not a basis for a good business relationship.

 

And yes, I will in the future only refer to these so-called "loot-boxes" as gambling-containers, cause that is the correct term.

Why should I play along and help the gaming industry disguise their gambling content behind harmless designations such as "loot-box"? We players must stop aiding and abetting these funny legal claims of gambling content not being gambling content, by not adapting this new-speak terminology.

If anyone from Wargaming reads this, please try to be more transparent over the fact about % drops. This will boost your sales and also engage the community. 

[olixor]

22 hours ago, ___ax___ said:

i like it how people are complaining about gambling cuz of the boxes and not realising that the game itself is a gamble whenever you click "battle": 0.00001% chance you will win that battle :D

Comparing 2 completely different things..

You clearly don't understand what we are arguing about.

[AeroWB]

Thanks WG, for such a shitty summer sale, by the way whats on sale? Oh nothing.

You only get a few tokens with a very few things from the shop that you can exchange for a lootbox with a very low chance on a random ship.

But wait there is more, you can earn 15 tokens with a special missions chain, that you can exchange for a lootbox, except that most people with not get more than 6 tokens as the 4th mission is very hard and the mission chain last only a few days.

So all in all a super disappointing summer sale, that is not even a sale, even if you are so stupid to buy token packages you pay normal price for a guaranteed premium ship, except its a random one, that's just brilliant, for WG that is not for the players.

[Asureas]

Surprise mechanics or not (which personally I was happy with) a bit annoyed to miss the end of the "sale" by 3 hours and discover that as well as the chance to finish off getting the tokens I was asked to build up over the last week (Annoying but okay). There's now no way to spend them! This wasn't clear at any point (usually things hang around until the next update) now I have tokens which will become cammos I don't need or want... pants.

[painless]

On 8/25/2020 at 10:12 AM, YabbaCoe said:

I am sorry for you, it can eventually happen, that you won't get desired things from the boxes. As you can see from the comments, those ships are out there. 

But please, don't call this a robbery. You knew, what you are buying and that from those boxes you will get one of the things listed in the description. I understand, that you are unhappy with this, but you bought those tokens willingly and you got the stuff, that could drop from those. You haven't got anything special, but you definitely weren't robbed...

Of course its not a robbery, that's silly, its good old gambling.  First rule of gambling is house wins, regardless of players results..

I gamble from time to time on Wargambling containers, sometimes i win big, sometimes i get crap, but that's how gambling works.. Nothing dishonest there..

[powerverde]

On 8/23/2020 at 10:41 AM, 416taylor said:

I can see there is a lot of moaning and complaining here. If you don't want the stuff don't buy. you can't expect that everything should be for free. if you want to punish WG hit them where it hurts them most DON'T BUY.

Its not about wanting things for free.

I dont mind buying tokens or boxes or whatever if i know I'll get this ot that. What I hate and so wont do is to buy a chance to win this or that.

Totally different things.

If a ship costs 5 and we have a specia event where it comes out for 4, then its indeed a specia event. If WarGambling wants me to spend money for chances, they wont get 1 cent from me.

[MRGTB]

On 8/23/2020 at 5:05 AM, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I just found out the achievements from the operations count towards that mission.

You can get them in Sprint Ranked battles also. Which don't last as long as Operations, if they are still doing the 3 ship per-side battles

[BonSie]

The fact that nowhere in the article states that the armory shop closes as well is really disappointing, now I have load tokens which are going to be turned into useless camo's.

[TheWarJaC]

On 8/28/2020 at 10:48 PM, BonSie said:

The fact that nowhere in the article states that the armory shop closes as well is really disappointing, now I have load tokens which are going to be turned into useless camo's.

Hi Captain, 

In the article, the expiring date for the offer was actually mentioned several times, as you can see also here 😊