HMS LION. How does this ship work?

[Silent_Hunter94]

What is the deal with this ship? It's AP sucks and HE is no better. 

 

I was scoring easy 100k damage in Monarch and KGV. In KGV it was HE all the way, Monarch was a mix of shell types. But I am unable to do anything in Lion with either type of shell. AP just doesn't penetrate or the damage is really low if it does. HE does barely 2200 damage. I had read that RN bb's are good for setting fires. In last three games I barely set more than 4 fires in any, even though I was using HE all the time. A Des Moine killed me when I was firing AP only at his broadside.

 

Please, Any suggestions for how to play this thing would be helpful as I am struggling to do even 60k damage in each game. In a game with 96 shell hits I had only 45k damage and a single fire. Even Bismarck's main HE rounds set more fire and do more damage than this. 

 

The superheal is nice but not when every enemy ship focuses me down as soon as I get visible and I take chunks of damage with every hit. I have tried pushing at front,  was dead in 2 minutes, tried staying in between, the DPM is too low due to constant manoeuvre, tried staying at the end, my Karma dropped from 26 to 9 and I got chatbanned.

 

I would request not to give unhelpful suggestion like learn how to tank, or learn how to play battleship. I may not have enough games but I have played enough that I know what to do.

 

Thank you.

 

 

*******

So just an Update.

 

After playing 20 games and loosing like 80% of them, I found that loading AP is better. HE barely set a fire, or RNG is just too crazy. Because in 1 game I set 9 fires in 21 shell hits, next game 1 fire in 29 shell hits. With AP loaded, at least I am consistently touching the 100k damage number, not to mention taking chunks out of cruisers.

 

[ColonelPete]

Past 11km the Lions 406mm AP has more penetration than Iowa or german 406mm. And you have the option to take stronger 419mm guns.

One should note the short fuses on the AP shells. Which makes going for citadels on BB difficult at long range.

 

Maybe upload a replay that we can help you. There could be an issue with your aiming or target selection.

[SV_Kompresor]

It doesn't. Just yesterday I used up 200k fxp to skip it. I find the ship to be worse than monarch not just tier for tier but in a 1 vs 1.

 

The guns are worse because the reload is 5 seconds longer and the citadel armor appears to be much weaker for some reason than on the monarch. And because of the armor the heal suddenly becomes worse than the one monarch uses because if you get citadeled (which you will) it can't heal anything and you're suddenly left with a heal that reloads almost twice as slow.

 

Personally I find the ship about as bad as fdg, and that's saying something. I'm sorry that I cannot give you any advice other than skipping it.

[Yedwy]

Its annoying AF I just skipped her on my way to Slava after like 10 battles or so, just couldnt stand those hit nothing guns on a soft shell, on say German BBs at least you can get up close and personal with Lion, not so much...

[Silent_Hunter94]

13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Past 11km the Lions 406mm AP has more penetration than Iowa or german 406mm. And you have the option to take stronger 419mm guns.

One should note the short fuses on the AP shells. Which makes going for citadels on BB difficult at long range.

 

Maybe upload a replay that we can help you. There could be an issue with your aiming or target selection.

It's still a stock ship as I researched it today so no 419mm guns yet. I have the replays but how do I show it you, I have no idea. Never did it before.

 

 

[CptBarney]

Play her like monarch, a flanker and a opportunist. Shes a second line support, close support mid-late game BB. The reason for her questionable accuracy is due to weegees mentalness regarding HE for RN BB's for some reason and the heal.

Shes good at killing cruisers at longer ranges than hurting bb's at same ranges.

 

She defos struggles at the early game probs more than most ships and shines more at late game, so playing her a bit more passive might help. Also try and crossfire more as well if that helps.

[Silent_Hunter94]

7 minutes ago, domen3 said:

It doesn't. Just yesterday I used up 200k fxp to skip it. I find the ship to be worse than monarch not just tier for tier but in a 1 vs 1.

 

The guns are worse because the reload is 5 seconds longer and the citadel armor appears to be much weaker for some reason than on the monarch. And because of the armor the heal suddenly becomes worse than the one monarch uses because if you get citadeled (which you will) it can't heal anything and you're suddenly left with a heal that reloads almost twice as slow.

 

Personally I find the ship about as bad as fdg, and that's saying something. I'm sorry that I cannot give you any advice other than skipping it.

I am tempted to just free xp past it, But I am saving free xp for Alaska, so that option is out of chance.

[HaachamaShipping]

Lion is where I quit the line, because it's just frustrating. The AP pen isn't necessarily bad, but hit rate is and that's what kinda screws the ship for me. An FdG has the same accuracy, but reloads way faster and has faster shells. A Lion has some crap shell output and apart from not being very accurate gives the target a good bit of time to react to being shot at. Monarch was better in that regard. Apart from that, superheal's cool, but the ship gets easily damaged, hates running into Yamato-class and the turrets get knocked out half the time, because unlike Monarch, the turret face is absolutely flat. I rather go play Monarch or Thunderer and ignore the rest of the high tier Brits. Maybe Vanguard if on sale.

[Silent_Hunter94]

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

Play her like monarch, a flanker and a opportunist. Shes a second line support, close support mid-late game BB. The reason for her questionable accuracy is due to weegees mentalness regarding HE for RN BB's for some reason and the heal.

Shes good at killing cruisers at longer ranges than hurting bb's at same ranges.

 

She defos struggles at the early game probs more than most ships and shines more at late game, so playing her a bit more passive might help. Also try and crossfire more as well if that helps.

I will try the passive approach and crossfire. It struggles to hurt an angled BB at any range. I haven't even ,mentioned the issues with dispersion as after  grinding down german BB's on NA and Asia server for a long time, LION feels like most accurate ship.

[CptBarney]

5 minutes ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

I will try the passive approach and crossfire. It struggles to hurt an angled BB at any range. I haven't even ,mentioned the issues with dispersion as after  grinding down german BB's on NA and Asia server for a long time, LION feels like most accurate ship.

She's very squishy and doesn't have a good rate of fire so ironically shes not good for early-mid game aggression although don't miss out chances to get into places that allow you to smack people about as you play lion more you will see how quesitonable her accuracy is even at close range.

 

It seems like shes quite a powercrept ship atm that needs love.

[Silent_Hunter94]

11 minutes ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Lion is where I quit the line, because it's just frustrating. The AP pen isn't necessarily bad, but hit rate is and that's what kinda screws the ship for me. An FdG has the same accuracy, but reloads way faster and has faster shells. A Lion has some crap shell output and apart from not being very accurate gives the target a good bit of time to react to being shot at. Monarch was better in that regard. Apart from that, superheal's cool, but the ship gets easily damaged, hates running into Yamato-class and the turrets get knocked out half the time, because unlike Monarch, the turret face is absolutely flat. I rather go play Monarch or Thunderer and ignore the rest of the high tier Brits. Maybe Vanguard if on sale.

You just listed every issue that I have. I thought about Vanguard, but I there are already  enough premiums in my account.

[Silent_Hunter94]

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

She's very squishy and doesn't have a good rate of fire so ironically shes not good for early-mid game aggression although don't miss out chances to get into places that allow you to smack people about as you play lion more you will see how quesitonable her accuracy is even at close range.

 

It seems like shes quite a powercrept ship atm that needs love.

Oh I know about that. The Des Moine I wrote about was maybe 3 km apart with his bow in my direction.  FIred all three turrets with AP loaded at him, I think maybe 4 shells hit the ship rest fell either side of it.

[Chaos_Umbra]

The ship is just trash as the guns are so wonky you will miss a broadside Worcester at 6km with the shells going high and low, left and right with 0 hits...

 

Only good RN BBs are the premium ones as they actually are accurate and able to hit stuff...

[pra3y]

Spec for stealth, then play it as a large cruiser with bigger armour, health and super heal. Basically the last 3 british tech tree BBs are suppose tonbe played like that, at least imo.

 

I once played a match on Ocean in the lion with 3 enemy ships chasing after me and didn't die. I flicker in and out of existence while torching them 

[Chaos_Umbra]

3 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Spec for stealth, then play it as a large cruiser with bigger armour, health and super heal. Basically the last 3 british tech tree BBs are suppose tonbe played like that, at least imo.

 

I once played a match on Ocean in the lion with 3 enemy ships chasing after me and didn't die. I flicker in and out of existence while torching them 

Yeah but it is trash gameplay as you are just reliant on shell RNG and Fire RNG you can't actively try and blap something which is kinda the main point of a BB... Might as well play an IJN cruiser at that as it will do the whole kiting and setting fire thing much better plus has torps as a extra...

[Commander_Ericson]

I know how you feel. When I first got it I found it a real pain, hard to do any damage and the thing just got focused down way to easily. Playing a bit more cautiously to reduce the number of enemies engaged and using the HE to put nose in BB's under pressure seems to work. Reversing when the enemy pushes and keeping them alight seems to work. Eventually they get bored, push in to try and get an angle on me with all their guns, giving too much angle themselves and then boom, AP. Thanks. Zombie heal back up e.g. print new ship, and on to the next bb victim.

 

The shells are slow and the dispersion seems to be ll over the place.

 

Even when not stock she feels cumbersome and as soon as you show any side, say to use the rear gun, blap. Citadelled.

 

It's definitely not the most interesting of play styles, but it can be ok and a challenge to keep it alive long enough for the HE to start counting or for the enemy to give up trying to kill you and turn to show their broadsides.

[pra3y]

7 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

Yeah but it is trash gameplay as you are just reliant on shell RNG and Fire RNG you can't actively try and blap something which is kinda the main point of a BB... Might as well play an IJN cruiser at that as it will do the whole kiting and setting fire thing much better plus has torps as a extra...

Well they (british bb he shells) hit alot harder than an IJN cruiser's for one. 

 

I guess its the versatility? You have the armour, health pool of a BB, a superheal and good stealth. While the armour isnt necessary that good compared to its compatriots, its still BB armour. So you get to pick your fights, and as long as you make use of that stealth, you can print out a new ship with the heal.

 

[Chaos_Umbra]

10 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Well they (british bb he shells) hit alot harder than an IJN cruiser's for one. 

 

I guess its the versatility? You have the armour, health pool of a BB, a superheal and good stealth. While the armour isnt necessary that good compared to its compatriots, its still BB armour. So you get to pick your fights, and as long as you make use of that stealth, you can print out a new ship with the heal.

 

You also have double the reload most times the shells all scatter around so while the Cruiser will land at least 6 shells per salvo in half the time you might only land 1 or even none in double the time and the accuracy doesn't seem to get much better until you are 2km from the target. The Lion is not much better armour than a cruiser while being rather large your more likely gonna take more damage with the more mobility too. Super heal is double edged as the cool down is much longer. Sorry to say it is the most trash BB line in the game and has taught new players bad things so now we see US BBs spamming HE from long range cause they do not know any better...

[Silent_Hunter94]

2 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

The ship is just trash as the guns are so wonky you will miss a broadside Worcester at 6km with the shells going high and low, left and right with 0 hits...

 

Only good RN BBs are the premium ones as they actually are accurate and able to hit stuff...

Already happened with me. The premiums are good. I have the Nelson and it is so much better.

[Silent_Hunter94]

1 hour ago, pra3y said:

Spec for stealth, then play it as a large cruiser with bigger armour, health and super heal. Basically the last 3 british tech tree BBs are suppose tonbe played like that, at least imo.

 

I once played a match on Ocean in the lion with 3 enemy ships chasing after me and didn't die. I flicker in and out of existence while torching them 

It's very difficult to do so. I can't mauever that the enemy shells miss me. And pretty much everything that hits me, does some damage. I will still give it a go.

[Silent_Hunter94]

55 minutes ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

You also have double the reload most times the shells all scatter around so while the Cruiser will land at least 6 shells per salvo in half the time you might only land 1 or even none in double the time and the accuracy doesn't seem to get much better until you are 2km from the target. The Lion is not much better armour than a cruiser while being rather large your more likely gonna take more damage with the more mobility too. Super heal is double edged as the cool down is much longer. Sorry to say it is the most trash BB line in the game and has taught new players bad things so now we see US BBs spamming HE from long range cause they do not know any better...

Exactly. Playing in a Mogami, I can just kite and fire at extreme ranges, dodging the incoming fire. it;s not possible in LION.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, pra3y said:

Well they (british bb he shells) hit alot harder than an IJN cruiser's for one. 

Then again, the RN CAs exist. They do that job quite well without taking up a BB spot.

[The_White_Whale]

Just skip past the Lion ASAP, it's a nothing ship with no purpose in the game. Conq with Legendary and Dunkirk is much more rewarding. The heaviest of the super heavy cruisers.

 

 

 

[Panocek]

4 hours ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

It's still a stock ship as I researched it today so no 419mm guns yet. I have the replays but how do I show it you, I have no idea. Never did it before.

 

 

https://replayswows.com/ would be one way.

 

Besides, AP pen difference between 406 and 419 isn't big, and stock 406 overtake Iowa/Montana in terms of penetration past 11km. HE performance is also very similar, so if anything you can save exp on getting top guns.

1 hour ago, Silent_Hunter94 said:

It's very difficult to do so. I can't mauever that the enemy shells miss me. And pretty much everything that hits me, does some damage. I will still give it a go.

Welcome to all-or-nothing armored battleships. But, most BB grade munitions as long as they don't come from Yamato class, will probably deliver overpen damage as BB grade AP fuse needs quite a lot of effective thickness to arm the fuse.

[lafeel]

1 hour ago, HaachamaShipping said:

Then again, the RN CAs exist. They do that job quite well without taking up a BB spot.

Considerably more agile than Lion too from what I have seen..