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Adm_Andre

Why is this (fail division) a thing?

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Hello

 

run the last days/weeks a few times into fail divisions.

 

Now i have to ask, why is this still a thing?

 

Yes, it is mentioned in the wiki, ...

Zitat

 This is commonly called a "fail division" because this puts the lower tier ship in a battle tier they normally cannot see.

... and WG has the high ground... but still: Why? 

 

There's no technical reason. The MM should easily find a match for example a T4 and T5 division, why does he have to push them into a T5/6/7-match (and dont forget also the 2nd T4 on the opposing team (LOL))

 

Is this some kind of punishment? Again: Why, because this particularly concerns newcomers, were for example one player is already tiered up.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Adm_Andre said:

There's no technical reason. The MM should easily find a match for example a T4 and T5 division, why does he have to push them into a T5/6/7-match (and dont forget also the 2nd T4 on the opposing team (LOL))

 

Is this some kind of punishment? Again: Why, because this particularly concerns newcomers, were for example one player is already tiered up.


Why should you get better MM for the higher tier ship? If it would work like you describe, everyone would be doing faildivs to ensure easier MM.

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Zitat

 better MM

??

 

T4/T5-Division could be match into a T4/5/6-match, how is this better or easier than what??

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8 minutes ago, Adm_Andre said:

??

 

T4/T5-Division could be match into a T4/5/6-match, how is this better or easier than what??

T5 vs max T6 is better for the T5 ship than T5 vs max T7.

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15 minutes ago, Adm_Andre said:

??

 

T4/T5-Division could be match into a T4/5/6-match, how is this better or easier than what??

 

In this specific case:

T4 cant even see T6 ships under normal circumstances. So its impossible to "only" put them into T4-6 MM, as you still need a faildiv on each side to get them into T6-7 MM.

If MM rules would change the way you propose, a T4-5 div would always have T4-5 MM.

 

Easier to understand if we look at a range, where both tiers have +/-2 MM rule, f.e. T7+8 faildiv.

Put one T7 ship + 2 T8 ships together and your MM would be T7-9 at worst. T8 vs 9 is much easier than T8 facing T10 ships, which can easily happen if you go in with a 3x div of only T8 ships.

Not to mention, at best you could get T6-8 MM with 2 toptier ships.

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8 minutes ago, Adm_Andre said:

??

 

T4/T5-Division could be match into a T4/5/6-match, how is this better or easier than what??

Guarantee that you'll never be bottom tier most definitely sounds like easier matchmaking.

 

The idea is simple: WG doesn't forbid you with queueing within 1 tier spread, but the MM lets you suffer the consequences of that instead of letting you reap benefits.

There are many ships in this game that are pretty strong but don't scale too well when facing higher tier opponents. If divisioning with lower tier ship allowed you to avoid being bottom tier, ever, there would be plenty people abusing the system for this very reason.

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Okay, but why is this still a thing? Why not gray out the "Battle!"-button, if the players form a fail-division?

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Just now, Adm_Andre said:

Okay, but why is this still a thing? Why not gray out the "Battle!" if the players form a fail-division?

They get warned about it, if I'm not mistaken - if they still proceed with their fail division, it's their problem...

And it's not like you can take any div composition you like - you're strictly limited to one tier spread.

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[MUMMY]
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Fail divisions are fun if the fail division are good players - usually they are terrible and clueless.

 

A happy memory I have is being the "Fail" in the Fail Division.  Div'ed up with my buddy; he was in a Kongo, myself in a Yubari; ended up with tier 7 MM. 

 

Had an enemy Kiev (back when it was tier 7) go out of his way to tell us how much of a fail division we were.  I took great delight in gunning him and his Sims division mate down, and of course pointing out that the fail in the fail division just wiped them out.

 

I also have another memory of someone in a Iowa brining his buddy along in a tier 1 CA.  I politely asked what was they thinking and was told to STFU.

Both members of the fail division called me names using colourful language even though I offered my sincere apologies for the slip of my finger, which caused a twitch leading to a double left click just at the wrong time as I was checking out the cool camo of the little tier 1 cruiser:Smile_sad:

 

In a perverse way, I miss fail divisions. 

From memory you are now only able to div up with people within a +/-1 battle rating.  No more silliness of an Iowa brining along a Hashidate in their div because "we are fwends and he is new to the game <3".

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1 hour ago, Adm_Andre said:

Okay, but why is this still a thing? Why not gray out the "Battle!"-button, if the players form a fail-division?

You could report them for unsportman behavior, if that will make it feel better for you.

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Beta Tester
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I love fail divisons...

especially, when I'm in an AA heavy T7 ship and see a T4 CV dragged into the battle by his T5 divison mate... usually that means Payback Time... :cap_rambo:

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I've seen it mentioned that - for good players - fail divisions are a good way to rack up some serious xp points, by bagging higher tier ships than would normally be available to the 'fail' part of the division.

 

I don't go in for this sort of thing myself (not good enough), but still...

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10 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

I've seen it mentioned that - for good players - fail divisions are a good way to rack up some serious xp points, by bagging higher tier ships than would normally be available to the 'fail' part of the division.

 

I don't go in for this sort of thing myself (not good enough), but still...

Don't takes a fail division to do that... just play Kamikaze in a T7 battle... ^^

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4 hours ago, Adm_Andre said:

There's no technical reason. The MM should easily find a match for example a T4 and T5 division, why does he have to push them into a T5/6/7-match (and dont forget also the 2nd T4 on the opposing team (LOL)) 

 

Is this some kind of punishment? Again: Why, because this particularly concerns newcomers, were for example one player is already tiered up.

 

The reason is pretty simple: If the MM would go for the lowest ship for the MM spread, you could gurantee the higher ship to always be top- or midtier.

 

I believe before the CV-Rework there was the T7 CV + T8 Div mates division, which gave the T8 ships almost always the TT spot.

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What never ceases to amaze me is that matchmaker always manages to find a second fail division to stick on the opposing team. 

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Beta Tester
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I loved to faildivision with my Kamikaze, you get fatter BB's to nuke :Smile_trollface:

Tho i do miss the times when you could bring a Umikaze or old Isokaze to troll Yamatos and Montanas, #goodtimesforall

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30 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

I loved to faildivision with my Kamikaze, you get fatter BB's to nuke :Smile_trollface:

Tho i do miss the times when you could bring a Umikaze or old Isokaze to troll Yamatos and Montanas, #goodtimesforall

In all seriousness, though: DDs in general tend to be great as the lower end of fail division: gunboats still can rain fire on big ships, gunboat DD hunters can still destroy a higher tier torpboat, torpboats can still stealthily torp the enemies...

I even know a t2 DD I could take to t10 battles, as long as the match was relatively Radar-light :Smile_trollface: Imagine being subject to a constant stream of an invisible V-25's torps. Slow. Soft-hitting. 7km range. BUT THEY NEVER STOP COMMING, 1 OR 2 AT A TIME :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 hour ago, Zemeritt said:

I believe before the CV-Rework there was the T7 CV + T8 Div mates division, which gave the T8 ships almost always the TT spot.

Those were called 788 divisions (link points to Yuro's video about them). They guaranteed never facing a CV from the same or higher tier (if memory serves right, from T8 matches onwards the "only one CV per team" rule applied) while limiting the MM spread to T9 at most (due to the need for mirroring the CV), unless encountering another 788 div. I'm mostly a solo player and at that time a CV main (Hiryu was my most played ship until not so long ago), so I had to face them a bit too often. The current situation of T4 CVs entering T7 battles (455 divs, which also were common during RTS times) is a remnant of that era.

 

Salute.

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[THESO]
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Mix divs below T8 should not be allowed but WG is not looking at it as an important issue. Maybe they'll solve it in the future.

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23 hours ago, _Dunc_ said:

What never ceases to amaze me is that matchmaker always manages to find a second fail division to stick on the opposing team. 

^

This.

 

Imo fail divisions shouldn't be allowed, even if it were to just protect the players who don't understand the MM.

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