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pepsifreddie

How to fix CVs easily

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no intro

 

1-Planes aren't unlimited, make them a resource so shooting them down actually does something do, (maybe +15 aircraft per carrier up (added to the base from tier 4 number of aircraft) so that they have a lot but numbers run thin if they are stupid)

 

2-No insta-damage party on aircraft carriers, fires actually used to help disable them temporarily, make the fire tick damage less though for balancing

 

3-If you start humping the border for over 10 seconds it should start to tick damage off, stops people hitting reverse and forgetting

 

Reasons for this is that if you are sailing alone in a battleship you should get punished, but I've been in games, especially at tier X where rocket attack planes are getting though me (minotaur) and American cruisers, with respectable numbers. When it keeps happening it gets annoying because shooting them down only prevents the inevitable.

That all, just a few ideas to see if they would work, add your own ideas or comment on mine if ya like :) have a good day

(edit) spaced it out so it doesn't hurt to read

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  1.  Planes are already limited. But while bad players run out of planes, good players do not.
  2. Would be nice, but do not see a balance issue there.
  3. that is not a CV issue and will not improve CV balance
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I used to like carriers when you didn't have to fly the aircraft but let the AI pilots do their job while you did yours as a skipper and not as a pilot.  I've not skippered one since and don't really care what they do to the things while the player is the pilot and the ship is out of his control half the time.  But this is not a constructive attitude.  I just needed to say it. :Smile_sad:

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3 hours ago, pepsifreddie said:

1-Planes aren't unlimited, make them a resource so shooting them down actually does something do, (maybe +15 aircraft per carrier up (added to the base from tier 4 number of aircraft) so that they have a lot but numbers run thin if they are stupid)

Hakuryu's current starting number of torpedo planes is 24 - that's already 15 more than the Hosho's base 9. I'll tell you a secret: planes' survivability and starting numbers assume that you will get more than the starting number...

As for Hosho, it has 9 and around a minute of restoration time - what it means is that it can restore around 20 over the entire course of a full-length battle. Take into account that it probably won't be restoring them all the time AND that the last few probably won't be of much use AND that battles tend to end earlier than in 20 minutes - in practice +15 planes but no respawn means that they effectively have more planes than with "unlimited planes" mechanic...

 

Of course, the numbers themselves could be tweaked. What you can't tweak with setting the numbers right is the more fundamental problem. You see, the plane limits changing over time (through plane restoration) are there to accomplish two goals:

1. Limit the freedom of good players, force them to mind their planes since even manageable losses can put them at a bit of a disadvantage, force them to do squad rotation

2. Stop the bad players from running out of planes and getting frustrated over having nothing to play with whatsoever

If you increase the starting limits and remove the restoration, you need to set the numbers somewhere. Depending on where it will be, you'll end up with overall nerf or overall buff of the class, but one thing will be for sure: the relative power of good CV players compared to bad CV players will be increased. If good players remain with the current level of power, you've solved nothing: it's the good players that make people frustrated by handing their butts to them, after all. The bad players become completely useless, though, and the average ones struggle. If you set it so that the average players are about as powerful as now, you've just made things worse: the good players become much more powerful. If you set it up in a way that allows bad players to still do something... oh boy. Pray to never meet a unicum CV player - because they will show you what it means to be attacked by unlimited planes.

 

TL/DR: this suggestion would only make the situation worse.

 

3 hours ago, pepsifreddie said:

2-No insta-damage party on aircraft carriers, fires actually used to help disable them temporarily, make the fire tick damage less though for balancing

Irrelevant, really. CVs generally aren't shot at enough for this to really matter balance-wise. On the rare occasions this would come into play, it would just be a pretty poor mechanic: being temporarily disabled is a frustrating experience, with the post-rework mechanics more so than before (after all you get just one squadron at a time, you can't really focus on scouting around while waiting for the fire to die down). I would be in favor of normal, manual consumables on CVs, but it has very little to do with balance, really.

 

3 hours ago, pepsifreddie said:

3-If you start humping the border for over 10 seconds it should start to tick damage off, stops people hitting reverse and forgetting

And... how would that fix anything about CVs? CVs tend to move by autopilot - they are literally the one class that would be least affected by border life bleed. BBs would suffer (especially since they take forever to unglue from the line once they hit it). Cruisers and DDs would occasionally have a serious problem. But CVs would barely notice. The few players who hit S a couple times and call it a day might actually learn to click the map instead - but that hardly changes anything...

 

 

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4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:
  1.  Planes are already limited. But while bad players run out of planes, good players do not.
  2. Would be nice, but do not see a balance issue there.
  3. that is not a CV issue and will not improve CV balance

How can you run out of planes when you have a magical plane factory in you CV.   Its like saying a DD has limited torps or a battleship has limited shells because there might be a short time at the end of the match where the reload time is longer than the time left in the game.

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1 minute ago, Distinctly_Average said:

How can you run out of planes when you have a magical plane factory in you CV.   Its like saying a DD has limited torps or a battleship has limited shells because there might be a short time at the end of the match where the reload time is longer than the time left in the game.

Fly planes into the AA of the enemy and see for yourself...

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Just drive a dedicated AA-cruiser (as advertised by WG) and enjoy the massive damage done by sector reinforcement and defensive AA fire combined (see attached picture)...

shot-20.08.15_17.34.07-0096.jpg

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Fly planes into the AA of the enemy and see for yourself...

I've done it.  They always get rebuilt.  Just like when I fire torps or shells, I wait on new planes.  There is never a time where I am not waiting on new planes, torps or shells.

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2 minutes ago, PeteEarthling said:

Just drive a dedicated AA-cruiser (as advertised by WG) and enjoy the massive damage done by sector reinforcement and defensive AA fire combined (see attached picture)...

Yubaris real AA starts at 2.5km

1 minute ago, Distinctly_Average said:

I've done it.  They always get rebuilt.  Just like when I fire torps or shells, I wait on new planes.  There is never a time where I am not waiting on new planes, torps or shells.

Then you were not wasting them fast enough.

Have seen enough CV who were helpless, because they did not have enough planes.

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yubaris real AA starts at 2.5km

Then you were not wasting them fast enough.

Have seen enough CV who were helpless, because they did not have enough planes.

Ive seen CV waiting on planes getting built and none in the air.  I've also seen battleships waiting on their guns reloading.  Both have to rely on the secondaries for what they are worth.   There is never a time a CV wont get any planes back or a battleship that wont get shells back.

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Just now, Distinctly_Average said:

Ive seen CV waiting on planes getting built and none in the air. 

So planes are not unlimited.

And best part is, when they get some planes back, there often still helpless, as the few planes they launch get shot down before they can attack the enemy. As this will not change for rest of the match, unless someone protects the CV for the whole time he needs to get a 2/3+ squadron.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

So planes are not unlimited.

And best part is, when they get some planes back, there often still helpless, as the few planes they launch get shot down before they can attack the enemy. As this will not change for rest of the match, unless someone protects the CV for the whole time he needs to get a 2/3+ squadron.

Thats the design WG went for when they changed CV into an simplistic arcade mode rather than improve what they had.  They seemed to think we could only do one thing at a time.

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99% of the issues around balancing cv would be solved by moving them to odd tiers with balance adjustments made to the cv in these tiers.

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[TSUN]
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None of these would make a difference.

CVs are a problem because:

1. They spot everything and there's no hiding from them. This means that any ship relying on stealth has to change their playstyle.

2. They can strike an isolated target. Then they strike them again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again. This is incredibly frustrating to play against.

It's not that CVs are impossible to play against. It's rather that CVs have an outsized impact on the game and they affect the entire map at once. It's like facing 4x Halland on Ocean - you have to significantly change the way you play just because they are in the game.

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Here's the only way to "fix" CVs.

 

tJKlWOL.gif.61448931d3c35dfa9b11ed08457fdc9d.gif

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7 hours ago, Winged_Cat_Dormant said:

Threadpit of Despair.

I think I saw them perform at the Latitude festival three years ago.

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6 hours ago, Distinctly_Average said:

How can you run out of planes when you have a magical plane factory in you CV.   Its like saying a DD has limited torps or a battleship has limited shells because there might be a short time at the end of the match where the reload time is longer than the time left in the game.

Count the planes taking off. Take Hakuryu - a ship that has a lot of torpedo bombers. Now go and lose two full squadrons you get for start. Wait until you have more than half a squadron again - and lose it too. Congratulations - you've just run out of torpedo bombers, you will never take off with full squadron again this match. Not enough planes - even the theoretical ones available in 20th minute - left in the match to put a full squadron together.

 

You see, the thing with "limited torps on DD" ot "limited shells on BB" is different in the sense that these are things you can't conserve. It doesn't matter what you do with them: you fire a salvo and then get your stuff reloaded. You won't see yourself shooting only half of your torpedo tubes because you fired too many earlier. You won't see cooldown between salvoes increasing either. With planes it's different - if you don't conserve them, you're going to have less of them. You won't be able to fly full squadrons. You won't be able to launch the same squadron type before the planes from previous sortie come back. Conservation of planes is crucial for your success, it's the most important factor (assuming you don't get yourself killed) for your late-match performance.

 

Conservation of torps/shells, on the other hand, isn't even a thing. Which is why planes - despite slowly respawning - are a limited resource and torps/shells are not. Or, to give you a real-life example: if you're a kid that gets, say, $10 pocket money per week, it doesn't mean that money isn't a limited resource for you. Yes, you can wait a bit and you'll get more money, but if you don't manage it well, you're going to find yourself out of money A LOT.

 

Also, the analogy also explains why WG opted for this model: because giving a kid some $500 for the entire year in advance might work out for some kids that are good at managing their finances, but most will squander the money within the first month and be miserable for the rest of the year. And parents don't want their kids to be miserable. Similarly, WG would prefer even the less adept CV players to not spend half the battle miserably looking at their emptied hangars with nothing to do.

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Step 1) DD spotted a plane, therefor the CV player knows exactly where the DD is (on the edge of his planes current detection range, likely in whatever direction he was flying)

Step 2) CV flies in that direction and permanently spots the DD because the DD has no AA worth using (or even mentioning)
Step 3) DD takes 2 million potential damage from the 7 ships targeting him because focus the DD makes sense

 

You could remove rockets/bombs/torps from planes, good CV player will still get all the destroyers killed fast with a squadron of spotter planes. The one thing that I feel needs fixing is DD-CV interaction, specifically the spotting part, because currently all a CV needs to do to delete you is look at you.

 

Removing them isn't constructive, they're here, people spent time and money on them, they're not going anywhere.

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i still think the whole spotting problem could of been fixed by having a ship spotted by a cv only revealed on the mini map

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Hey there, 

 

How about we use suggestions thread or CV thread for this? 

This one will be locked. 

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