Pommern , wtf is this crap?

[_DeathWing_]

 

[HaachamaShipping]

5 hours ago, PaP_Mentoles said:

"Powerful armor protection"....

And still torpedo tubes get easily destroyed from 15-17km using PM skill, main armaments upgrade mod 1. I don't dare to think how things could be if the protection wasn't powerful. WeeGee at their best. Can you please provide us a spreadsheet? 

Congrats WeeGee.

The torp tubes are located on the deck with no armour at all, the rest of the ship has pretty solid armour. But that's like complaining Kremlin has crap armour, because HE sweeps the deck off all the AA guns.

[PaP_Mentoles]

On 8/17/2020 at 7:23 PM, HaachamaShipping said:

The torp tubes are located on the deck with no armour at all, the rest of the ship has pretty solid armour. But that's like complaining Kremlin has crap armour, because HE sweeps the deck off all the AA guns.

Crap armor at all. Every battle I end up with all tubes destroyed in a couple of minutes and on many with one or two turrets destroyed. So, the armor is crap.

[HaachamaShipping]

17 minutes ago, PaP_Mentoles said:

Crap armor at all. Every battle I end up with all tubes destroyed in a couple of minutes and on many with one or two turrets destroyed. So, the armor is crap.

Turret plating is fairly standard, run main armaments mod 1 to avoid losing turrets and don't get shot in the turret sides. But that goes for any BB and Pommern is no outlier. Also, the powerful armour usually refers to hull armour, as said before, not the plating on turrets or any protection on torpedo tubes (which is nonexistent, the torp tubes have no protection). 

[Iku_CC]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:15 PM, Iku_CC said:

Last 2 battles with Pommern makes me wonder what is wrong with this ship...at first one I got detonation from one torp hit of Edinburgh..and at second game I blow up from topr hit to engine....I have never ever before lost any of my BB's to hit like those. I looked Survivability specs of torpedo protection and it is same for Pommern and Kurf but Pommern blow up in situation where I have never lost any BB.

I changed Priority Target to Preventive Maintenance and that change helped for almost every problem what I had. I played most of Ranked battles with Pommern and it was blast...I almost manage to grind without any loose from 10 to 1 rank. If I remember right I loose only 2 or 3 with Pommern and I played most whit it. I played very aggressive with it and I think that was the right way..:)

[Maris_Piper]

On 8/7/2020 at 4:45 PM, motor_g_b said:

Poor Pompom, if WG decide to play nice and give Her some proper sigma and Odin a fair health pool them I'm getting the wallet out, I'm just waiting for Anchorage surely something must escape the Nuclear Nerf Hammer eventualy FGS 

OK, OK So I was wrong, but Not Nerfed to Death...  Yet 

[Karkhus]

Atm Pommern is "okay" , not very good but for me, clearly not that bad.

It's the most effective close range BB and a decent mid-range BB.

 

[Jonathan078NL]

Necro!?

 

I got Pommern from a (premium) KM container which I bought from dubloons I got from an SC. So yeah, very happy that I did. I play alot of german BB's. Though I'm an average (relatively new) player and struggle to make her work consistently.

The main guns are pure RNG accuracy wise. So I went full secondary build, just like I did with Tirpitz. It has the same feel of Tirpitz but on tier 9, errors are punished harder.

 

You can't get close too early for secondaries to work, because you get focused and burned to a crisp in a mather of minutes. So it's really important to know when to get closer/push, I'm still figuring this out. My winrate is still below 50, so I need to find a better way to play this ship. It's definitely not easy (for me) but it's a great ship with alot of potential. Occasionally I can get nice games with her. Close range she can be brutal.

 

She could use a slight sigma buff, the dispersion is laughable most of the times.

[anonym_cwVecOS6ecVy]

Pommern had its shining in the 3vs3 ranked sprint, where you had to get close, because capping granted the win very fast. And where enemies where perma spotted 1 minute into the game. The whole sprint was designed to sell the Pommern. Sec builds where the way to go. Especially on a BB with torpedos. It was totally obvious Pommern will almost be irrelevant after the sprint ended. And you already see less and less of them. It is the same with every Premium basically.

[ColonelPete]

Pommern does well in Random, considering her battle numbers.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200926/eu_2month/average_ship_u.html

[Jonathan078NL]

41 minutes ago, Von_Pruss said:

Pommern had its shining in the 3vs3 ranked sprint, where you had to get close, because capping granted the win very fast. And where enemies where perma spotted 1 minute into the game. The whole sprint was designed to sell the Pommern. Sec builds where the way to go. Especially on a BB with torpedos. It was totally obvious Pommern will almost be irrelevant after the sprint ended. And you already see less and less of them. It is the same with every Premium basically.

You're right about the usefullness of Pommern in the Sprint, it performed perfectly in that specific environment. In randoms it's much harder to get in this range without being focused/radared/HE spammed while trying to. So in randoms you need to keep more distance to lets say; till midgame. This makes her secondaries pretty useless and leaves you behind with shotgun dispersion on mid- to long range on her main battery, it's far from ideal and something should be done about that dispersion to make it inline with the rest again.

 

< PS. this eagle emblem I earned most with Pommern (not that it's very special), but yeah; sometimes she can still shine in randoms but it seems harder and harder.

[Xhabalanque]

The discussion so far makes me wonder... when the Pommern has the same guns as Gneisenau Bismarck and Co why does everyone seem to complain the penetration isn't high enough. The only thing I have problems with is the Conquerer at 18km where shells tend to shatter. 

 

Usually I get overpens on Yamato ect. 

 

I am confused since my own experience seems to be so radically different from mine. 

 

As mostly a German BB sailor I also have to ask why are so many people so scared of the Kremlin? Yes it hurts more than it probably should but the Russian BBs are so easy to citadel in return. In fact it seems to me  that Russian ships in general love to take citas from German guns and bombs. 

 

Back to the Pommern topic. I like the Guns and armor better than on big and small Currywurst though I have to say that the Pommern feels even more sluggish. 

 

I need to drive it more overall it seems to be a solid ship to me but take that with a pound of salt since I also enjoy GZ and  the Mikasa. 

[Sunleader]

5 hours ago, Xhabalanque said:

The discussion so far makes me wonder... when the Pommern has the same guns as Gneisenau Bismarck and Co why does everyone seem to complain the penetration isn't high enough. The only thing I have problems with is the Conquerer at 18km where shells tend to shatter. 

 

Usually I get overpens on Yamato ect. 

 

I am confused since my own experience seems to be so radically different from mine. 

 

As mostly a German BB sailor I also have to ask why are so many people so scared of the Kremlin? Yes it hurts more than it probably should but the Russian BBs are so easy to citadel in return. In fact it seems to me  that Russian ships in general love to take citas from German guns and bombs. 

 

Back to the Pommern topic. I like the Guns and armor better than on big and small Currywurst though I have to say that the Pommern feels even more sluggish. 

 

I need to drive it more overall it seems to be a solid ship to me but take that with a pound of salt since I also enjoy GZ and  the Mikasa. 

 

1.

The Reason is that your a T9 BB with T8 Penetration.

Most other BBs can Reliably Citadel Broadsides of T9-10 BBs on 15km and sometimes more.

German 38cm Guns are usually around 12km.

Not a Giant Difference. But it is notable.

 

If you get Overpens by the way thats cause you hit Superstructure or Bow etc.

Not because you got Great Pen.

 

 

2.

Kremlin is Scary because it has Great Armor and Great Guns.

These Guns really hurt. And they can Citadel you often despite being Angled.

 

And Yes. You canCitadel them if you Catch them Flat Broadside.

But only then.

And that wont happen if they Player knows what he is doing.

 

When Kremlin is Angled. Getting through its Armor is really Difficult.

 

 

3.

Pommern isnt Bad.

Its likely the Strongest Brawler in the Game right now.

But Brawling isnt often Game Deciding.

And in other Aspects Pommern after the Nerfs is Mediocre at best.

Which is why so many People are Annoyed by this.

 

[Faceoff]

Sadly I bought this yesterday, was it nerfed or what, my my what a piece of garbage, ive tried playing like normal (not camping and sniping) and sniping.

 

My un upgraded Gneisenau outplay this one by a lot.

 

Please fix ur crap wows or ill stop playing again, and do a math quiz in start of every game to get the human bots.

[ColonelPete]

2 minutes ago, Faceoff said:

Sadly I bought this yesterday, was it nerfed or what, my my what a piece of garbage, ive tried playing like normal (not camping and sniping) and sniping.

 

My un upgraded Gneisenau outplay this one by a lot.

 

Please fix ur crap wows or ill stop playing again, and do a math quiz in start of every game to get the human bots.

She was not changed and is still a fine ship with double the firepower of the Gneisenau.

Maybe you need to get used to her first. That you even tried sniping in her, could be sign that you lack experience. Her attributes clearly show that she is not made for sniping.

[Varian_Dorn]

On 11/17/2020 at 1:26 PM, ColonelPete said:

She was not changed and is still a fine ship with double the firepower of the Gneisenau.

Maybe you need to get used to her first. That you even tried sniping in her, could be sign that you lack experience. Her attributes clearly show that she is not made for sniping.

Indeed, anyone playing Pommern purely at range is doing it wrong.

[Jonathan078NL]

After some time I still like Pommern, it's a strong brawler but sniping is indeed not advised with her sigma/dispersion. Then again sometimes you get a lucky salvo in and can still do some nice damage over range. You have to choose the right moment to engage and make use of her secondaries (which are great on this ship), this can be difficult to plan though. It's my only BB on tier 9 yet, so I can't compare it to other same tiered BB's. I like the german BB line, if you like Bismarck or Tirpitz, you will feel at home with Pommern.

 

Off-topic; I almost unlocked Georgia, lets look how these secondaries perform XD. Guess the dispersion on Georgia will be a bit better then Pommern, also the bigger caliber must bring more opportunities on range...

[xxHELIOS]

Il y a 37 minutes, Jonathan078NL a dit :

Off-topic; I almost unlocked Georgia, lets look how these secondaries perform XD. Guess the dispersion on Georgia will be a bit better then Pommern, also the bigger caliber must bring more opportunities on range...

Just keep in mind Gerogia has worse armor than Pommern and eat more fires HE should play her with caution but yeah so much fun with that insane guns and pace ! 

About Pommern i was following her during test but the nerf sigma decided me to save coal, maybe for Marco Paolo .. 

[HaachamaShipping]

5 minutes ago, xxHELIOS said:

Just keep in mind Gerogia has worse armor than Pommern and eat more fires should play her with caution but yeah so much fun with that insane guns and pace ! 

Georgia has the exact same amount of maximum fires that can burn on a ship and the exact same fire resistance as any other T9 BB, includng Pommern.

[xxHELIOS]

Il y a 12 minutes, HaachamaShipping a dit :

Georgia has the exact same amount of maximum fires that can burn on a ship and the exact same fire resistance as any other T9 BB, includng Pommern.

Yup you are right, was thinking about HE damages and wrote about fire damages.

[bl66]

Pommern, wtf is this crap?

 

A huge pile of crap. Nothing else. No armour, spends her time being burned, no penetration, no accuracy, torpedo tubes destroyed when you (rarely) need them, secondaries inacurate, even with the good perks.

 

DO NOT BUY IT.

 

This is even worse than the FDG.

 

Buy Georgia instead, you will not regret it. Or even Jean Bart, even this last one sometimes lacks consistancy.

[ColonelPete]

24 minutes ago, bl66 said:

Pommern, wtf is this crap?

 

A huge pile of crap. Nothing else. No armour, spends her time being burned, no penetration, no accuracy, torpedo tubes destroyed when you (rarely) need them, secondaries inacurate, even with the good perks.

 

DO NOT BUY IT.

 

This is even worse than the FDG.

 

Buy Georgia instead, you will not regret it. Or even Jean Bart, even this last one sometimes lacks consistancy.

When the average Pommenr player does quite well in her, the problem is not the ship.

Maybe read the whole thread

[Knutorius]

After having played about 75 games in this ship I can't help but repeat what I initially thought of her. Its trash.

 

Guns: are terrible. Its like putting pebbles on a catapult. Mostly unreliable at any range. You can have a 10km broadside target in front of you, it will still let you down.

Forget firing at long ranges.1/12 is a regular event. Even if you hit, its mostly overpens, sometimes an occasional citadel for no apperent reason or the lovely 1300 dmg full pen. Its absolute gambling. You never know what you gonna get.

33 second reloead is a slap in the face. While HE cruisers are reliably doing several thousand which each salvo. But that's an issue with the game balance anyway.

FDG gets bigger guns with a higher rate of fire, better turret traverse, better range, better dispersion, higher damage. Even the fire chance is higher.

So, what exactly is the advantage of playing a Pommern over a FDG?

 

Armor: Forget the armor. Even if statistics experts will tell you how good it is, you will get slapped from 20km by other BBs anyway. Imagine this ship with worse armor..Its actually necesseray to ensure a basic survival of this promo turd.

Since people have already figured out that you're an easy target you will get focused quickly by everything in range. Or even out of range. And as per usual thats your HE cruisers either kiting, sitting behind an island, in smoke or whatever brilliant game mechanic they are taking advantage of. Bottom line is: you will burn. Which makes it evermore exciting to get in close and use the "advantages" of the pommern.

So in essence the armor is nothing special and won't save you from HE shells raining down on you at tripple speed of your reload time.

 

The rest:

Torpedos: Well you got torpedos. Which is fun. But try to fire them when a couple of salvos of enemy high explosive destroy them easily at any given moment. Again brawler qualities.

AA: On the bright side the Pommern actually has some decent AA guns. Unfortunately the AA system is broken so it doesn't really matter how good it is. In my experience enemy planes are less of an issue though.

Secondaries: Yawn.. unfortunately its the only strenght of the german BBs,  really. Without the captain skills its useless.

 

Lets look at the 'Pros' listed in the WG wiki:

• Good main battery traverse speed and range
• Potentially devastating broadside of twelve (12) main guns
• Excellent hull and deck armor
• Reasonably fast for such a large battleship with a base speed of 31 knots
• Heavy secondary armament with good base range and penetration
• Strong short-ranged AA suite
• Equipped with one quadruple torpedo launcher per side of the ship
• Has access to the Hydroacoustic Search () consumable

Yeah, right. Any of these points seem either false or are standard or average in comparison to other ships, especially its tech tree counterpart, Mr. FDG

 

---

 

Again, this ship seems very underwhelming given the enemies it's facing in tier IX and X.

I found myself so often in situations where an enemy cruiser could just spam me down to pieces, while I wait for my two guns facing the enemy to reload for 33 seconds, only to get 1 or 2 overpens in return (if I'm lucky). Then having to reload again. Again, a general problem with the game balance, with BBs being but a joke in terms of damage output. But very noticable on the Pom.

 

Generally I like the Pommern. The idea, the looks of it. I really wanna have fun with it.

But I find myself over and over again being in the position of either having to stay away from getting burned to death or getting devestated from overextending. It's like a being a kid having to stay at home, watching the other kids play outside through the window. Your team mades hardly take note of you advancing most of the time, so getting in brawling sounds very nice on paper, but happens rarely and mostly on maps where you can take advantage of islands.

So I end up with underwhelming damage counts and a current win ration of 44%

I'm not sure how the premium unicum fanboys make this work, but I think it boils down to a couple of things. Captain skills, play style and probably playing in divisions.

 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

29 minutes ago, Knutorius said:

I'm not sure how the premium unicum fanboys make this work, but I think it boils down to a couple of things. Captain skills, play style and probably playing in divisions.

Has nothing to do with being unicum.

And yes, you should use a 10+ point captain on a Tier IX ship and know what you are doing, when playing high Tier. If you do not, you should expect to suffer the consequences.

[Benser33]

4 hours ago, Knutorius said:

Lets look at the 'Pros' listed in the WG wiki:

• Good main battery traverse speed and range
• Potentially devastating broadside of twelve (12) main guns
• Excellent hull and deck armor
• Reasonably fast for such a large battleship with a base speed of 31 knots
• Heavy secondary armament with good base range and penetration
• Strong short-ranged AA suite
• Equipped with one quadruple torpedo launcher per side of the ship
• Has access to the Hydroacoustic Search () consumable

Yeah, right. Any of these points seem either false or are standard or average in comparison to other ships, especially its tech tree counterpart, Mr. FDG

• 21.3km gun range can be considered good, it is 1km more than FDG.
• 36°/sec gun traverse is also good at a tier where BBs have between 30-72s turret traverse times. Only FDG is faster.
• Pommern has arguable the best armor scheme at tier 9, including the thickest deck plating in the game and some of the least 32mm armor exposure of any BB, with resistance to all DD calibre HE, 152mm cruiser HE, most 203mm cruiser HE, only cruisers with enhanced HE like RN CAs and KM CAs or large cruisers with +305mm guns can HE pen the majority of the surface. Meanwhile, the armor scheme around the waterline, at the bow, stern and internally as well as in terms of thickness the citadel is one of the best protected ingame, particularly effective at shorter ranges. This durability is backed up by a respectable health pool. The armor is equal to FDGs, the HP is 3k less. Despite its protection, H class hulls are very large targets.
• 31knts counts as reasonably fast when 30knts is a good speed for a BB, although BB speeds at this tier only vary from 27-33knts without engine boosts, making 31 only slightly above average and barely different from any competing BBs it is enough to keep up with certain cruisers. This is 1knt faster than FDG.
• The secondaries are the same as FDGs, capable of 11.5km range, a capable mixture of 105mm secondaries that effectively start fires and can pen most non-BB targets and 150mm secondaries that boast 38mm of penetration without IFHE for reasonable added damage. Arguably the second best secondaries in the game after GK who brings 128mm guns instead of 105s.
• A common flault on the wiki is presentation of AA. Pommerns AA is not strong relative to other BBs and is entirely worse than FDGs. Considering the size and agility of Pommern and the armament that Pommern has (fictious 30mm quad AA guns) the AA is not very effective. Add to this the missing aircraft from Pommern means no spotter or fighter.
• The torpedo tubes can completely turn a close range engagement with practically any ship an the angles are surprisingly good considering. The torpedos are not mind blowing, but they are an invaluable tool nonetheless.
• Pommerns hydro equals FDGs, another strong german BB feature, with 6km reach to detect ships hydro is often used only to detect torps with a few extra seconds of reaction time. It can be used to great effect in enclosed spaces to see enemies hiding behind corners and islands or nearby smokes and is very useful.

So infact, all of these traits of Pommern are equal or superior to FDG with the exception of the AA and the gun traverse, both of which are still typically bad/good for a German BB, and Pommerns absent aircraft catapult.

 

But there is one point I didnt comment on, which is the second one;

Pommerns 12 gun broadside is an incredible feature of the ship. This is not typical firepower for a German BB and compares to some more firepower focused BBs like Alsace while marrying that firepower to an extremely tough hull with numerous utilities like secondaries, torps and hydro. The guns are smaller so they cant overmatch 27mm, they reload slower and they have a low 1.5 sigma, but when firing at targets that dont factor overmatching you threaten your target with 40% more damage than FDG can deal, and even despite the slower reload Pommern can actually output higher DPM than FDG because the salvo damage is so high, and even with the worse sigma the two ships have the same dispersion reticle and the number of shells fired evens out the sigma to produce a similar level of accuracy to that of FDG (both average 27/28% accuracy in 2 month maplesyrup snapshot).

 

Combine that with Pommerns ability to win more close quarters trades with the added torps and its pretty clear why Pommern is beating FDG is winrate, damage and kills.

 

But like all brawling BBs, the trick with pommern is knowing when to engage in that brawl. Too often players in brawling ships believe they can press out into the open and engage multiple ships believing they can somehow manage the incoming focus fire and outtrade multiple enemies while being kited away from any sort of support and into enemy crossfire is not brawling, it is overextending. Pressuring an isolated enemy in close quarters where you can use short range tools like secondaries and torps to ensure you outtrade your enemy and shrug off damage with an armor scheme that excels at resisting huge, sudden bouts of damage is brawling.