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YabbaCoe

Asymmetric battle survey

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[WG]
WG Staff
5,735 posts
4,470 battles

Commanders!

 

One of the main features of Update 0.9.8 will be a new temporary battle type with an uneven distribution of ships per team - Asymmetric Battle.

The teams in Asymmetric Battle will differ in the number of ships and their tiers, but we have made sure that the strength of both teams is as equal as possible.

 

Today we have prepared a small survey to get your opinion on the effectiveness of different team compositions in Asymmetric Battle.

 

To participate in the survey you need to perform a few simple steps:

1. Follow the link: https://proships.ru/stat/meta/asyn/

2. Choose your game server from the list.

3. Sign in with your Wargaming account.

4. After that, you will be shown the different compositions of teams for Asymmetric Battle, and you just need to choose which team you think would win in each battle and click the button. If you are not sure about the result of the battle, you can press the "Draw" button.

5. To collect statistics, each participant of the survey should choose the result for 10-20 different battles.

 

Thank you for your participation in the development of the project and good luck in battle!

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[PUPSI]
Freibeuter
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4 minutes ago, YabbaCoe said:

Thank you for your participation in the development of the project and good luck in battle!

tried it, but not possible for me with the Russian letters for Russian ship names

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[WG]
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Před 2 minutami Klopirat řekl/a:

tried it, but not possible for me with the Russian letters for Russian ship names

Weird, because I just openned that and I have all ships written in latin letters, not the Russian ones.

Try to close it and log in there again, please.

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[WG]
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Před 7 minutami Klopirat řekl/a:

russianletters.JPG.0664481de0beb36839415f7a5d662f6f.JPG

Crysantos mentioned, that F5/ reload from a different browser worked for him to solve this.

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Players
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What happened to my post? And @Crysantos answer to it? :cap_yes:

 

Anyway, I'm using Mozilla firefox v79.0 x64 and every russian ship name is in Cyrillic. Also F5 to refresh the page does nothing.

1111.jpgž

 

 

 

Also, it took me a while to figure out survey never ends, it just keeps randomly dropping ship lineups. Yeah, I'm not really smartest person out there, stop laughing :Smile_sad:

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[WG]
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Před 5 minutami quickr řekl/a:

What happened to my post? And @Crysantos answer to it? :cap_yes:

 

Anyway, I'm using Mozilla firefox v79.0 x64 and every russian ship name is in Cyrillic.

1111.jpg

it is reported, we are currently working on solving this issue.

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[OMPG]
Beta Tester
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Haha, this survey is the best game mode for a long time. Is it gonna be permanent?

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[LUXX]
Players
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16 hours ago, YabbaCoe said:

Commanders!

 

One of the main features of Update 0.9.8 will be a new temporary battle type with an uneven distribution of ships per team - Asymmetric Battle.

The teams in Asymmetric Battle will differ in the number of ships and their tiers, but we have made sure that the strength of both teams is as equal as possible.

 

Today we have prepared a small survey to get your opinion on the effectiveness of different team compositions in Asymmetric Battle.

 

To participate in the survey you need to perform a few simple steps:

1. Follow the link: https://proships.ru/stat/meta/asyn/

2. Choose your game server from the list.

3. Sign in with your Wargaming account.

4. After that, you will be shown the different compositions of teams for Asymmetric Battle, and you just need to choose which team you think would win in each battle and click the button. If you are not sure about the result of the battle, you can press the "Draw" button.

5. To collect statistics, each participant of the survey should choose the result for 10-20 different battles.

 

Thank you for your participation in the development of the project and good luck in battle!

Your not even able to make a fair and even matchmaking in standard games, why not make it worse? Honestly just fix the issues with the existing mm and game, don't introduce even more balans....

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[WG]
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Před 12 hodinami TohtoriP řekl/a:

Haha, this survey is the best game mode for a long time. Is it gonna be permanent?

Unfortunately no, this survey is for us to know, what results to expect in those different setups.

 

Před 42 minutami Cheesekilla řekl/a:

Your not even able to make a fair and even matchmaking in standard games, why not make it worse? Honestly just fix the issues with the existing mm and game, don't introduce even more balans....

These asymmetric battles will be in special mode and there is no plan to do something like this in random battles.

Před 18 minutami Dampfboot řekl/a:

Will earnings in this game mode match random games?

Further concrete information about this mode will be published later, closer to 0.9.8 update.

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[THROW]
[THROW]
Sailing Hamster, Players, Privateer
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Kinda hard, if not impossible, to correctly guesstimate the outcome just based on the ships present.  There's so many factors not mentioned there. 

 

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[THROW]
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18 minutes ago, Takru said:

Kinda hard, if not impossible, to correctly guesstimate the outcome just based on the ships present.  There's so many factors not mentioned there. 

 

I think the idea here is to poll what we would expect at a glance, and then later compare it to actual data and see if and how the perception is skewed. Then use that as input for later decisions e.g. the case where some feature that is balanced in practice is still disliked because it's perceived as unfair.

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[THROW]
[THROW]
Sailing Hamster, Players, Privateer
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57 minutes ago, Fafniroth said:

I think the idea here is to poll what we would expect at a glance, and then later compare it to actual data and see if and how the perception is skewed. Then use that as input for later decisions e.g. the case where some feature that is balanced in practice is still disliked because it's perceived as unfair.

Just one example: When you've got a T8 CV vs a bunch of T5-6 boats. The outcome would massively depend on how competent the CV player is. 

Or in more general terms, if your opponents aren't playing together well, your team will always have a higher chance of winning. Since these are random asymetric battles, well... It's really just a roll of the dice. Hence my earlier comment that there's much more influencing the outcome of a battle than just the ships involved.

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[OHRIP]
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4 hours ago, Dampfboot said:

Will earnings in this game mode match random games?

Further concrete information about this mode will be published later, closer to 0.9.8 update.

 

--> So the rewards will be a lot lower compared to normal random battle. Understood.

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[WG]
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Před 1 hodinou Takru řekl/a:

Just one example: When you've got a T8 CV vs a bunch of T5-6 boats. The outcome would massively depend on how competent the CV player is. 

Or in more general terms, if your opponents aren't playing together well, your team will always have a higher chance of winning. Since these are random asymetric battles, well... It's really just a roll of the dice. Hence my earlier comment that there's much more influencing the outcome of a battle than just the ships involved.

You are correct. Every battle really depends on each player's performance in the battle. But first we need to gather the perception, how the community thinks, that the battle would end just taking different ship setups in consideration. So we would be able to see, which setup (f.e. out of my mind Enterprise against tier V cruiser) wouldn't be balanced at all and which would be more or less equal. Right now we are considering only ships themselves, not players...

 

Před 9 minutami Dampfboot řekl/a:

Further concrete information about this mode will be published later, closer to 0.9.8 update.

 

--> So the rewards will be a lot lower compared to normal random battle. Understood.

with that sentence, I definitely haven't said that. Actually I personally don't know that, but as I said, more info will be provided later.

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[-MM]
Weekend Tester
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@YabbaCoe

 

I can see a lot of problems with Asymmetric on a 3 tier spread. 

 

- DDs are a massive force multiplier when there's no CV. Theoretically a trio of Tier V/VI DDs against a team of VIIIs without a DD are free to farm kills.

- However, DDs don't scale in a linear fashion, and their specialization means a -2 or -3 DD can be capable of taking down it's opponent. (eg. a Cossack can happily take on any Tier X torpedo boat, or two Farraguts will easily best an Asashio).

- Tier V DDs aren't balanced round radar, because apart from a trio of premium cruisers, they'll never see it. How are they supposed to cope with Tier VIII radar, especially the Russian cruiser radar?

- BBs have a power scale issue. Some can survive at +2 or +3 because range, improved AP or HE/Fire, but many can't. A trio of Queen Elizabeth/Warspite is stronger than a trio of PEFs against, say, a pair of Bismarcks.

- BB agility markedly improves from VII onwards, even the dog slow US boats suddenly get to 30knts at Tier VIII. Putting them against Tier V boats in the 20-23knt range is going to be bad

- Cruisers are possibly even worse for a +/-3 spread - the DPM is one thing, but weight of salvo from a Tier VIII big gun cruiser on a V is devastating. Example: Wichita can effectively one shot an Omaha or Hawkins, or two salvos at most - so ten seconds. Can completely control the engagement in terms of range, speed, spotting, and detection. 

 

 

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[FAF]
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Shouldn't the fun improve when we bring more balance to the game instead of less? Call me crazy, but an asymetric game is what a lot of people seem to experience in half their battles when they get steamrolled in five minutes. Ships are not balanced and the current metric for player skills does not seem to be working. A lot of people still can't handle a +2 spread. Now you want to see how they will fare in a +3 spread, after the carrier remake has turned them into scared border/island huggers.

 

I can only see this working as a short encounter on very small maps. Force the engagement. No carriers on the high tier side (or, at all). You can only win this if all the small ships gang up on the big ones guns blazing and focus firing. As soon as you let the bigger ships control the engagement, they will win through firepower, range advantage, sometimes even concealment and, possibly, the benefit of having more battles played. The last bit may not be significant anymore with all the special camos and xp boosts around, but maybe you should only unlock such a mode after X battles played or first tier 10.

 

I still think that improving the core game would be a better investment of your time. You wanna get fancy with new game modes? Bring out a rock-paper-scissors mode that only has DDs, BBs and CAs/CLs, same tier if possible.

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[LEAKS]
Players
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I am pleased to see this survey mode.  The balance is attempted to be held even though there are dissimilar formations on each side.  I like that.   In another thread I suggested that balance was not a necessary attribute if overall statistically any given player ended up with having the same chances of winning as any other player over a long series of games.  Battles in the real world are always fought by aggressors who attempt to attack weaker formations to give themselves an advantage.  So one team being stronger than the other would not matter if the weaker team turned out to have better players and anyway eventually everyone would experience the same odds as the number of games played increased so long as the individual battle team selections were truly random.

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[THESO]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
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Did a Nice Badge.

Alot of these are pretty easy.

But there is also alot which could go either way depending on the Players.

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[2DQT]
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On 8/5/2020 at 5:19 PM, Klopirat said:

russianletters.JPG.0664481de0beb36839415f7a5d662f6f.JPG

Cyrillic is easy to learn, try it. f.i. on the left you have two Tallin's. Eveb if you know 70% of the alphabet, you can read most ship's names. 

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[2DQT]
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Think this is a extremely bad idea unless it is a toggaeble game mode. Those without lion hearts will go afk at the start or sail to the map edge when they notice they are on the low tier team.

 

Good for coop and operations, nightmarishly bad idea for random. 

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