Weser, the killer ( and no, sight stabilisation is NOT needed )

[Beastofwar]

1 hour ago, Execute0rder66 said:

 having  an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

 

 

Right on spot for that dude

 

Quote

I have to say I really don't like the Weser.

 

Operator Error is more than a possibility but it matches Ranger in the wonky aiming stakes - both rocket planes and bombers have horrid aiming mechanisms - and the torpedoes need to be given Ryujo lead time for trivial damage. Not a fan at all based on games played so far.

 

They really do chipping damage. Need to stack that way more then other CV. They produce decent numbers only in matches where you are not roflstomped, and these CV cannot stop that from happening either.

 

2 x over 100k damage, does not seem too bad and not really good...but a LOT of attacks in a lot of match time.  ( in the scenario i sacrificed the CV to draw bot fire off the merchants....or it would have been a loss )

 

I don't think the premium is stronger then the Tech tree one. I prefer the AP bombs. The premium CV really has weak planes and a low number of them in the squadron. But insane respawn rates or so it seems. Every time i return a previously destroyed squadron ( no heals at T6 ! ) is full and ready on the deck again.

 

 

[_HomTanks_]

3 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Right on spot.

How?

[invicta2012]

37 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

I don't think the premium is stronger then the Tech tree one. I prefer the AP bombs. The premium CV really has weak planes and a low number of them in the squadron. But insane respawn rates or so it seems.

I much prefer the Lowenhardt. She's very much like Furious - which I know won't be the most popular choice - in the sense that she has nimble planes and that all the attack groups are worthwhile in their own right. I love the Stukas and their precision HE bombing - great for finishing off damaged enemies - and the fact that you can see your attack reticle while dodging flak is much better than the Weser's high altitude bombers. I think you probably can do much more damage in the W if everything goes in your favour, but E.L is easier and more fun. And it has all the cool planes you want from a WW2 German carrier. 

[Beastofwar]

7 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

 And it has all the cool planes you want from a WW2 German carrier. 

 

That is true.....though i would expect Stuka's to be more damage resistant....

[Aetius85]

I don't play cvs, but on the other side I did today one with a Viribus Unitis, and got killed by 2 rounds of AP bombs from Weser, halving my HP on first round and wiping the remaining on 2nd 

[SeaWolf7]

On 8/1/2020 at 7:00 PM, Beastofwar said:

 

And claimed that most citadel ribbons were produced by the AP missiles. But it seems it is the bombs that pack the (stopping) power here......

This is contrary to what i am finding. AP missiles do  produce more citadels But only do a max of 1700 max per cit. Ap bombs do 7k Max damage when cit. So less citadels but way way more dammage.

[lup3s]

14 hours ago, Aetius85 said:

I don't play cvs, but on the other side I did today one with a Viribus Unitis, and got killed by 2 rounds of AP bombs from Weser, halving my HP on first round and wiping the remaining on 2nd 

 

Probably twice a double citadel drop, i.e. 2x (2x7k). It can happen but I find the AP bombs inconsistent, seems like you had some bad RNG against you 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

I picked up the Weser yesterday. It's still not fully upgraded but so far it's been interesting to play in Ops on Narai but somewhat tragic to play even in Co-op let alone random battles. It's just too easy to counter it seems and so coming away with little damage from a sortie with a massive loss of aircraft just isn't all that fun surprisingly!!

 

Rockets - need cruisers of the right armor value to "hold still and don't turn please" in order to get citadels and even at that the damage is pitiful. They seem largely ineffective and the weak against DD's which can counter them easily. Sure they'll still do some damage to DD's but not nearly enough to trouble a DD that's in good health plus there's no chance of setting anything on fire so if you can't pen a target properly you can go F.

 

Torpedoes - deal the lowest damage of all nations which we know but for me what makes no sense here is they are also have the lowest flood causing % chance. For me that makes no sense. The British and U.S. have the equal highest flood chance at 45% which is easily pushed into a positive flooding chance of 60% or even higher with a signal or two but that was fine because the IJN torps dealt more damage and thus some sort of balance was established... less damage for more flooding or more damage for less flooding. But these German torps, they both the least damage AND have the least flood chance, how the F does that make sense? Surely based on the other nations torp balance it should have the highest flood chance. Anyway, they're my least used weapon so far.

 

Dive bombers - A fun and new playstyle, good damage dealing potential and generally my go-to weapon when the rockets inevitably start failing and dying. At first I found them a little bit tricky to use but it didn't take long to become reasonably skilled at knowing the when and the where etc. Good damage dealing potential against big slow ships that struggle to counter them and I'm guessing is the German CV's main damage dealing weapon here against BB's and slower cruisers. Problem with that is that unlike the other nations that use torps for big damage dealing against BB's and cruisers, torps also have a chance of flooding for additional damage, sometimes a lot of additional damage across the course of a battle whereas with the German dive bombers there's the damage it deals and no other secondary potential damage dealing bi-product, no fire %, no nothing... maybe a crit, fine, but that's not adding any damage just perhaps momentarily removing the target ships ability in which to deal damage itself.

 

So all in all, it's been zero fun in anything other than Ops and because it's only new to me perhaps this is just a brief "yay, new toy!!" sort of fun that will quickly fade lol. The reason it's somewhat effective and fun on Ops, or rather Narai, is that obviously the target ships run rather predictable lines in which it's much easier to implement the not-so-dangerous rockets on light cruisers along with the hard hitting and rather fun dive bombers on very much stupid bot BB's. This is the only environment in which I can ever imagine a German CV being any fun at all and for that you actually need the cruisers that fleet up the middle to actually have no AA whatsoever nor change heading as is the case on Narai, and thus a case of shooting fish in a barrel not to be found in any other game mode. That being true, the damage returns have still been somewhat sad so far, even in an environment like Narai where a CV can have it all it's own way as much as possible and so at the end of the day the credit returns and xp returns are rather lame, especially compared to really potent CV's like the Ryujo and financially at a deficit in regards credit making when held against an Ark Royal so.... ya... I guess the only reason to play it just for a change of styles and what fun one might find within that. For me the fun is not so much and most likely as mentioned, just a case of fun with a new toy that will fade quickly and with it this CV ever being used again outside of perhaps some directive requiring it's inclusion.

 

Btw guys, what's your opinion on the Survivability Expert skill being used on this CV to bolster up those weak as F aircraft? It's worth an additional 150 hp per aircraft so X8 for a full flight is and additional 1200 hp combined for AA to have to chew through. Is that a skill worth adding for a spare 3 points or not and if not WHY not?

 

[SeaWolf7]

12 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

I picked up the Weser yesterday. It's still not fully upgraded but so far it's been interesting to play in Ops on Narai but somewhat tragic to play even in Co-op let alone random battles. It's just too easy to counter it seems and so coming away with little damage from a sortie with a massive loss of aircraft just isn't all that fun surprisingly!!

 

Rockets - need cruisers of the right armor value to "hold still and don't turn please" in order to get citadels and even at that the damage is pitiful. They seem largely ineffective and the weak against DD's which can counter them easily. Sure they'll still do some damage to DD's but not nearly enough to trouble a DD that's in good health plus there's no chance of setting anything on fire so if you can't pen a target properly you can go F.

 

Torpedoes - deal the lowest damage of all nations which we know but for me what makes no sense here is they are also have the lowest flood causing % chance. For me that makes no sense. The British and U.S. have the equal highest flood chance at 45% which is easily pushed into a positive flooding chance of 60% or even higher with a signal or two but that was fine because the IJN torps dealt more damage and thus some sort of balance was established... less damage for more flooding or more damage for less flooding. But these German torps, they both the least damage AND have the least flood chance, how the F does that make sense? Surely based on the other nations torp balance it should have the highest flood chance. Anyway, they're my least used weapon so far.

 

Dive bombers - A fun and new playstyle, good damage dealing potential and generally my go-to weapon when the rockets inevitably start failing and dying. At first I found them a little bit tricky to use but it didn't take long to become reasonably skilled at knowing the when and the where etc. Good damage dealing potential against big slow ships that struggle to counter them and I'm guessing is the German CV's main damage dealing weapon here against BB's and slower cruisers. Problem with that is that unlike the other nations that use torps for big damage dealing against BB's and cruisers, torps also have a chance of flooding for additional damage, sometimes a lot of additional damage across the course of a battle whereas with the German dive bombers there's the damage it deals and no other secondary potential damage dealing bi-product, no fire %, no nothing... maybe a crit, fine, but that's not adding any damage just perhaps momentarily removing the target ships ability in which to deal damage itself.

 

So all in all, it's been zero fun in anything other than Ops and because it's only new to me perhaps this is just a brief "yay, new toy!!" sort of fun that will quickly fade lol. The reason it's somewhat effective and fun on Ops, or rather Narai, is that obviously the target ships run rather predictable lines in which it's much easier to implement the not-so-dangerous rockets on light cruisers along with the hard hitting and rather fun dive bombers on very much stupid bot BB's. This is the only environment in which I can ever imagine a German CV being any fun at all and for that you actually need the cruisers that fleet up the middle to actually have no AA whatsoever nor change heading as is the case on Narai, and thus a case of shooting fish in a barrel. That being true, the damage returns have still been somewhat sad so far, even in an environment like Narai where a CV can have it all it's own way as much as possible and so at the end of the day the credit returns and xp returns are rather lame, especially compared to really potent CV's like the Ryujo and financially at a deficit in regards credit making when held against an Ark Royal so.... ya... I guess the only reason to play it just for a change of styles and what fun one might find within that. For me the fun is not so much and most likely as mentioned, just a case of fun with a new toy that will fade quickly and with it this CV ever being used again outside of perhaps some directive requiring it's inclusion.

 

Btw guys, what's your opinion on the Survivability Expert skill being used on this CV to bolster up those weak as F aircraft? It's worth an additional 150 hp per aircraft so X8 for a full flight is and additional 1200 hp combined for AA to have to chew through. Is that a skill worth adding for a spare 3 points or not and if not WHY not?

 

Have to agree with you findings. fighters seem to melt more quickly due to their low hp pool and everything apart from bombers seem to have truly pitiful damage, Ive had some success with the rockets as they are AP they can citadel very effectively against broadside cruisers but the damage return for those cits is an insult. thus making it a waste of time. you realy have to stack to get any result. 

 

20 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

Btw guys, what's your opinion on the Survivability Expert skill being used on this CV to bolster up those weak as F aircraft? It's worth an additional 150 hp per aircraft so X8 for a full flight is and additional 1200 hp combined for AA to have to chew through. Is that a skill worth adding for a spare 3 points or not and if not WHY not?

 

IMO this particular line only benifits from SE as its one of the lines weak points. But is there anything more worth while for the points?

[Sir_Sinksalot]

17 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

Have to agree with you findings. fighters seem to melt more quickly due to their low hp pool and everything apart from bombers seem to have truly pitiful damage, Ive had some success with the rockets as they are AP they can citadel very effectively against broadside cruisers but the damage return for those cits is an insult. thus making it a waste of time. you realy have to stack to get any result. 

 

And based on that logic I went with the Bomber mod 2 for the 4th slot for an additional 7.5% HP on bombers whereas with any other CV nation I would most likely have gone with either the Torpedo or Attack aircraft mod instead. Only in Ops against these predictably dumb bots and of cruisers of a certain tier can I say it's been "easy" to implement these rockets in any meaningful way and as mentioned, not only did it take this perfect scenario never to be found in any other game mode, certainly never in random battle BUT, these particular cruisers don't even have any AA either lol.

 

So in this laughably unrealistic scenario, up to 8 citadels from one attack.

 

 

Turn around with no AA to worry about lol, and another 4 citadels on that same cruisers.

 

 

and here's the worst part. I still didn't kill that low tier bot cruiser even with no countering and no AA to worry about. Can you imagine actually getting such strikes in a random battle somehow and being rewarded with this laughable cringe levels of damage dealing in which pretty much all of your rockets not just hit their target and penned but also hit citadels too only to see that same ship still floating? In practice what would happen is I get ZERO pens, no citadels and most likely all the aircraft are quickly swatted from the sky after the first attack in which he just pointed his cruiser into the oncoming attack before popping a fighter consumable or sectoring his AA. I will NEVER play this in a random battle and very little even in Co-op outside of some directives which would just happen to request the use of a CV and a German CV at that lol.

 

31 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

 

IMO this particular line only benifits from SE as its one of the lines weak points. But is there anything more worth while for the points?

 

Well, I had a spare 10 pointer after picking up the Odin to play around with so I picked what I normally would and was left with 3 skill points, not too far off 4 points so it also puts that option on the table for consideration too. What you guys think? SE or something else and please keep in mind this CV will NEVER see a random battle, it's just for Ops 99% of the time and the odd Co-op should some missions require a German CV so don't look at it as a setup for random battles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RavenWolf1]

6 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

I picked up the Weser yesterday. It's still not fully upgraded but so far it's been interesting to play in Ops on Narai but somewhat tragic to play even in Co-op let alone random battles. It's just too easy to counter it seems and so coming away with little damage from a sortie with a massive loss of aircraft just isn't all that fun surprisingly!!

 

Rockets - need cruisers of the right armor value to "hold still and don't turn please" in order to get citadels and even at that the damage is pitiful. They seem largely ineffective and the weak against DD's which can counter them easily. Sure they'll still do some damage to DD's but not nearly enough to trouble a DD that's in good health plus there's no chance of setting anything on fire so if you can't pen a target properly you can go F.

 

Torpedoes - deal the lowest damage of all nations which we know but for me what makes no sense here is they are also have the lowest flood causing % chance. For me that makes no sense. The British and U.S. have the equal highest flood chance at 45% which is easily pushed into a positive flooding chance of 60% or even higher with a signal or two but that was fine because the IJN torps dealt more damage and thus some sort of balance was established... less damage for more flooding or more damage for less flooding. But these German torps, they both the least damage AND have the least flood chance, how the F does that make sense? Surely based on the other nations torp balance it should have the highest flood chance. Anyway, they're my least used weapon so far.

 

Dive bombers - A fun and new playstyle, good damage dealing potential and generally my go-to weapon when the rockets inevitably start failing and dying. At first I found them a little bit tricky to use but it didn't take long to become reasonably skilled at knowing the when and the where etc. Good damage dealing potential against big slow ships that struggle to counter them and I'm guessing is the German CV's main damage dealing weapon here against BB's and slower cruisers. Problem with that is that unlike the other nations that use torps for big damage dealing against BB's and cruisers, torps also have a chance of flooding for additional damage, sometimes a lot of additional damage across the course of a battle whereas with the German dive bombers there's the damage it deals and no other secondary potential damage dealing bi-product, no fire %, no nothing... maybe a crit, fine, but that's not adding any damage just perhaps momentarily removing the target ships ability in which to deal damage itself.

 

So all in all, it's been zero fun in anything other than Ops and because it's only new to me perhaps this is just a brief "yay, new toy!!" sort of fun that will quickly fade lol. The reason it's somewhat effective and fun on Ops, or rather Narai, is that obviously the target ships run rather predictable lines in which it's much easier to implement the not-so-dangerous rockets on light cruisers along with the hard hitting and rather fun dive bombers on very much stupid bot BB's. This is the only environment in which I can ever imagine a German CV being any fun at all and for that you actually need the cruisers that fleet up the middle to actually have no AA whatsoever nor change heading as is the case on Narai, and thus a case of shooting fish in a barrel not to be found in any other game mode. That being true, the damage returns have still been somewhat sad so far, even in an environment like Narai where a CV can have it all it's own way as much as possible and so at the end of the day the credit returns and xp returns are rather lame, especially compared to really potent CV's like the Ryujo and financially at a deficit in regards credit making when held against an Ark Royal so.... ya... I guess the only reason to play it just for a change of styles and what fun one might find within that. For me the fun is not so much and most likely as mentioned, just a case of fun with a new toy that will fade quickly and with it this CV ever being used again outside of perhaps some directive requiring it's inclusion.

 

Btw guys, what's your opinion on the Survivability Expert skill being used on this CV to bolster up those weak as F aircraft? It's worth an additional 150 hp per aircraft so X8 for a full flight is and additional 1200 hp combined for AA to have to chew through. Is that a skill worth adding for a spare 3 points or not and if not WHY not?

 

 

Weser is killer and very fun to play with in random battles. It is my favorite carrier right now. I have played 99 battles with her. Her secondaries are awesome. I have sunk countless ships with secondaries in my games. They shine at end of game when everyone starts to have low hp. You can just go to grab objectives and if there is low health BB there you can sink it with your secondaries and torpedo planes. DDs doesn't have change against you! I know torpedo planes are not as awesome as JP ones but I use them a lot. They don't make so much damage but those planes are more sturdy than bombers. Bombers melt fast. Rocked planes are really good for harassing DDs and cruisers which BTW is CV players' main objectives also they are good to make finishing blow to ships. If you are lucky with them you might score lots of citadel hit ribbons with them. I got 16 citadel ribbons with them in one game. At least this was before the patch.

 

These skills are essential for Weser: Survivability Expert, Armored Aircraft and Advanced Firing Training for her commander. Without Survivability Expert your planes are just paper and your ship doesn't stand with toe to toe against other ships. With Advanced Firing Training you can also go with the fleet and provide awesome AA support for fleet.

[DeviousDave02]

5 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

 

 

 

 

Agree, Weser is a bit of a dog in Ops and Coop as her rocket fighters aren't reliable and her DB's are over worked against BB's and CA'a (due to poor rocket pen chance against these targets) and finicky too (although very effective against BB's when RNG smiles upon you)

 

The new premium, Erich Loewenhardt is far better IMO (for Ops) as although the DB damage is lower due to the use of HE bombs instead of AP and smaller squadrons across the board the rocket fighters are far superior to the Weser's in damage and AP pen (getting Citadels is MUCH easier and rewarding, you can shave just under 50% of a lower tier convoy ships HP [can't remember it's name... begins with a K] off in one pass) while the DB's are universal and just NUKE DD's who don't dodge with a bit of luck

 

The TB's sadly need love as while they do more damage than the Weser's (not that it's hard to out damage those) it's not by that much and they are sluggish as hell with a fairly large arming distance.

 

But still they are better against BB's than the Weser's are.

 

The tier 8 silver line German CV on the other hand is a joy to play in Coop... now if only we had some tier 8 OPs...

[_Teob_]

Moved to the CV section of the forum.

[Aetius85]

21 hours ago, lup3s said:

 

Probably twice a double citadel drop, i.e. 2x (2x7k). It can happen but I find the AP bombs inconsistent, seems like you had some bad RNG against you 

maybe, consider also the VU goes at 20 kts and has not a great AA