Good ships you have horrid stats/performance in, and what you're doing wrong

[loppantorkel]

I thought it might be a good thought experiment for some, including me, and a chance to improve their game in the specific ship. Perhaps gameplay videos could be added for specific advice if needed.

 

I was looking for hidden gems for another thread when I realised that some of the ships I find good and fun, really might not suit me or that I've not just played them in a way they excel.

 

I've got a number of ships that I don't perform well in. If I disregard the pure stinkers that I just can't stand to play such as Seattle, Ibuki, Hipper, Surrey and... Amalfi , some ships that are perhaps decent-good, but they're not for me, and a few ships that are good-excellent but I have sub-par stats in but also know why (usually too much yolo in Georgia for example), I find a ship that I like, that is good but that I after 34 games is sitting on a 41,18% WR in. The other stats in this ship aren't abysmal, but not great either.

 

It could be that MM has been a bit worse than normal, but 34 games is enough to tell a fairly truthful story. I've not been able to win games in it.

I'm not sure what I've done wrong, but I think I will play Bayard a bit more and perhaps even attempt to upload a video for advice.

 

If you've got a similar ship you need advice on - share and perhaps add a video.

 

Edit: Just a disclaimer - Other forumites with better knowledge than me will have to give advice on questions or videos. I might be able to chime in for some dd related tactics, but for most facts about mechanics/values, I'm of little use.

[entar128]

Maybe 34 battles are too few in this ship for you to get an accurate picture.

 

For me its the Hindenburg which I am horrid in. I think I play it too much like a hybrid between Zao and Des Moines, and forgetting the worse concealment.

Not that I am a stellar player overall, but this ship... I just cant get it to work for me, and I am 99% sure its my own fault.

[IanH755]

I'd Ignore individual ship Win Rates - the rest of the "individual performance" stats you have for that ship are OK so the WR is more down to your team.

 

Here's the reverse of what you have - My MK has a near 51% WR over 69 games which sounds good, only my "individual performance" stats are terrible, I was just carried by my team a lot -

 

[Allied_Winter]

Looking through my ships, the - as you said - usual stinkers show up. But, one surprised me a bit:

 

 

As shown, sorted by WR from worst to best with at least 15 battles played. Bogue? Omaha? Seattle? Ok these are bad ships, but ... uhm ... Kiev? Blyska? ALASKA? Yeah ... uhm ... some ships are simply not for me...

 

Also one artifact from long time ago which shows how bad of a player I was back then: 73 battles in the Hatsuharu and only 46.5% WR .... yikes.

[DFens_666]

6 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

It could be that MM has been a bit worse than normal, but 34 games is enough to tell a fairly truthful story.

 

I dont think it is. You won 14 out of 34. Imagine if you would have gotten only 4 more wins out of those - almost 53% WR.

 

Ive had this aswell, and not only Fuso. Ive even played it twice after the grind i think, lost both (even in 3x div), simply not carryable.

My GK looked atleast as bad as your Bayard after 30 games, now with 80 games i have 65%. I think the point is, either you are confident and know you are doing the right things, and its beyond your reach to carry or you question yourself, which might not be the right choice afterall.

- Dont farm BBs with HE

- Shoot DDs and Cruisers

Works for any ship pretty much.

 

Here another point of small sample size

literally same damage/kills, yet Hiei has much worse WR.

[Ubertron_X]

Dmitri Donskoi

 

Rushing caps early on to support our DDs with radar.

[loppantorkel]

1 minute ago, entar128 said:

Maybe 34 battles are too few in this ship for you to get an accurate picture.

 

For me its the Hindenburg which I am horrid in. I think I play it too much like a hybrid between Zao and Des Moines, and forgetting the worse concealment.

Not that I am a stellar player overall, but this ship... I just cant get it to work for me, and I am 99% sure its my own fault.

It's on the low side, but it's an indication. 34 games is enough to tell me there's something wrong. Hindenburg is another ship I don't get along with, but that has more to do with me not liking what it's supposed to be. I don't have patience for Hindenburg, Henry. I have no intention of playing this kind of game, the ships aren't for me. Bayard might be the same, but in Bayard's case, I've liked the ship and enjoyed playing it. Perhaps I'll be told I'm playing it too aggressively and I'll have to choose between poor WR or playing it in, a for me, boring way.

1 minute ago, IanH755 said:

I'd Ignore individual ship Win Rates - the rest of the "individual performance" stats you have for that ship are OK so the WR is more down to your team.

 

Here's the reverse of what you have - My MK has a near 51% WR over 69 games which sounds good, only my "individual performance" stats are terrible, I was just carried by my team a lot -

 

 

Or

I disagree. WR tells me a lot. Sure there will be fluctuations that are related to MM/bad luck in small sample sizes, but I think WR tells you something. Maybe it can be analysed further in the thread.

[loppantorkel]

6 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

I dont think it is. You won 14 out of 34. Imagine if you would have gotten only 4 more wins out of those - almost 53% WR.

Yea, but I didn't. ..and almost 53% isn't all that great either. You have to stretch it a bit too much. I agree, it's a small sample size, but in this small sample size, the result isn't really there. It doesn't matter hugely. It's what stood out for me. I have Georgia and Småland too that I should be able to perform better in, but those I know more what I've been doing wrong and probably will improve if I just play them better. Not sure if I can say the same for Bayard.

6 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Ive had this aswell, and not only Fuso. Ive even played it twice after the grind i think, lost both (even in 3x div), simply not carryable.

My GK looked atleast as bad as your Bayard after 30 games, now with 80 games i have 65%. I think the point is, either you are confident and know you are doing the right things, and its beyond your reach to carry or you question yourself, which might not be the right choice afterall.

- Dont farm BBs with HE

- Shoot DDs and Cruisers

Works for any ship pretty much.

 

Here another point of small sample size

literally same damage/kills, yet Hiei has much worse WR.

Yea, maybe. Tough to tell. Could be all bad luck or something I can improve. Maybe I should've made a 'MM sucks'-thread instead

[N00Boo7]

OP ship (not for me ). I dont do well in daka daka ships  from some reason...

[BruceRKF]

For me it was the Sinop, probably one of the strongest ships both at her tier and even within the Soviet BB line. 46% winrate while grinding the line, while in all the other ships (tiers 5,6,8,9) I got between 67% and 75%. Higher average damage than Vladivostok as well. Sometimes there are just those cursed ships.

[_HomTanks_]

27 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Here another point of small sample size

literally same damage/kills, yet Hiei has much worse WR.

 

Have a similar case with Izumo and Baije. Literally the same ships with minor differences, i do better dmg in Baije but less kills, incomparable wr;

 

[Itwastuesday]

Kitakaze

9

Japan

47

38.3%

1 115

58 576

0.62

1.04

 

I re-specced into CE instead of AFT somewhere halfway into that, but still not having consistent results. I've done my damage record of 200k+ on Kita, yet I don't win games on it. 

 

Not having these problems on Soviet DD or Blyska for example. The floaty arc of Kita guns is not something I enjoy.

[_HomTanks_]

1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

Seattle, Ibuki, Hipper, Surrey and... Amalfi 

I jumped to Wooster, didn't play Seattle but here is a video that may give an idea:

 

 

 

I play Ibuki sort of like Zao, though since it lacks the troll armor of Zao i try to play a bit safer but utilize its torps when necessary. I have a decent wr in it but am far from being a strong ibuki player. Hence, maybe this video could be useful;

 

 

 

Hipper; i got double arsonist in Hipper in one game and use it according to the MM. If it is a T6-7 game i play aggressive in it and utilize the torps when possible. If it is a T10 game, use more the HE dmg output. Same with Prinz Eugen, except it can be played even more aggressive thanks to its heal.

 

Surrey, i use more map awareness while sailing it and pay more attention to positioning. Also try to use all heals and use covers if possible.

Amalfi, i use torps if enemy is pushing, meanwhile shoot and juke a lot. Its agility with smoke help. Punishing broadsides with AP also helps in Italian cruisers.

 

Now your turn, help me with Soyuz if you are good in it 

 

 

[Taliesn]

1 hour ago, N00Boo7 said:

OP ship (not for me ). I dont do well in daka daka ships  from some reason...

 

You're not the only one, my second worst tier X cruiser (look which one's the worst lol, admittedly on a small sample):

 

 

She's not OP, btw.

Some of my worst performing ships: 

 

 

I remember how awful Bayern felt way back when, probably my first (or second) tier VI BB, with Neptune and Monarch every bit as frustrating.

Quelle surprise to find Shokaku there, I suck in CVs.

 

And poor Montana, taking up the mantle from Zao as the Cursed One:

 

[loppantorkel]

1 hour ago, Execute0rder66 said:

I jumped to Wooster, didn't play Seattle but here is a video that may give an idea:

 

I play Ibuki sort of like Zao, though since it lacks the troll armor of Zao i try to play a bit safer but utilize its torps when necessary. I have a decent wr in it but am far from being a strong ibuki player. Hence, maybe this video could be useful;

 

Hipper; i got double arsonist in Hipper in one game and use it according to the MM. If it is a T6-7 game i play aggressive in it and utilize the torps when possible. If it is a T10 game, use more the HE dmg output. Same with Prinz Eugen, except it can be played even more aggressive thanks to its heal.

 

Surrey, i use more map awareness while sailing it and pay more attention to positioning. Also try to use all heals and use covers if possible.

Amalfi, i use torps if enemy is pushing, meanwhile shoot and juke a lot. Its agility with smoke help. Punishing broadsides with AP also helps in Italian cruisers.

...or just don't play them... I mean, do I have any reason to play these ships? I think I played them a bit before free-xp-ing past them. Most of these line do not really suit me for what I think is fun gameplay, and they are/were all sort of UP in their respective lines, which is why I don't really care to play them or improve in these particular ships.

Quote

Now your turn, help me with Soyuz if you are good in it 

Can't really help you on that. I've got 12 games in it. I haven't enjoyed the line particularly. JB and Georgia are more fun for high tier bbs so they get played instead. I'll probably reach Kremlin in a few years, but it's not like it's getting nerfed

You do seem to need an intervention on your Baije though

1 hour ago, Itwastuesday said:

Kitakaze

9

Japan

47

38.3%

1 115

58 576

0.62

1.04

 

I re-specced into CE instead of AFT somewhere halfway into that, but still not having consistent results. I've done my damage record of 200k+ on Kita, yet I don't win games on it. 

 

Not having these problems on Soviet DD or Blyska for example. The floaty arc of Kita guns is not something I enjoy.

Tough to say without replay, but reading your post, it seems you're focusing on damage and probably still at range, shooting larger target such as bbs. BB farming gives you damage, but you're not a huge influence in most games. Kita is a great dd, maybe OP, at least close to. If you focus on taking out enemy dds before starting to farm damage, you'll likely win more. This means you probably need to hold fire more than you've done, taking enemy dds by surprise and killing them at short range. It's riskier gameplay, but if successful, you'll increase your WR.

[_HomTanks_]

7 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

You do seem to need an intervention on your Baije though

Well I play it pretty much the same way I play izumo. I think the mm needs and intervention 

[Itwastuesday]

18 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Tough to say without replay, but reading your post, it seems you're focusing on damage and probably still at range, shooting larger target such as bbs. BB farming gives you damage, but you're not a huge influence in most games. Kita is a great dd, maybe OP, at least close to. If you focus on taking out enemy dds before starting to farm damage, you'll likely win more. This means you probably need to hold fire more than you've done, taking enemy dds by surprise and killing them at short range. It's riskier gameplay, but if successful, you'll increase your WR.

 

Yeah, well, I'm usually at radar's length from the enemy :) I've concluded that caps are deathtraps that get you killed for absolutely no gain. Don't really want to fight a Gearing when enemy balansk is also bearing down the knife arena with his Alaska buddy or some such scenario. 

 

I also concluded that BB farming is nearly useless, but those are the targets my team sees when I smoke, if they see anything at all.

[Gnirf]

2 hours ago, loppantorkel said:

Yea, but I didn't. ..and almost 53% isn't all that great either. You have to stretch it a bit too much. I agree, it's a small sample size, but in this small sample size, the result isn't really there. It doesn't matter hugely. It's what stood out for me. I have Georgia and Småland too that I should be able to perform better in, but those I know more what I've been doing wrong and probably will improve if I just play them better. Not sure if I can say the same for Bayard.

Yea, maybe. Tough to tell. Could be all bad luck or something I can improve. Maybe I should've made a 'MM sucks'-thread instead

Personally I feel that the HE spamming ships are difficult to save bad teams in although you can often get decent results yourself damage wise.

 

here are a few other factors that may give some ships  arelatively /good or bad performance (not personally directed to you but for all):

 

_ Early in career - not touched since

- Captain build ships, i.e. some mid tier/semi high say 5-8 you may want to keep and use as a captain trainer. When you move your captain upwards you may start again but then you are back to square 1.

The CE skill etc makes a lot if you in all games relative mean for the ship say it is a 10 p captain, how do rate a moved 14 p captain to a new 3p? If 10 p is 100 maybe 14 is 105-110 and 3 85-90?

A DD without CE on higher tiers probably more. BB with CE and FP vs none?

Yes, if you have eliteXp there is no problem, but if you have endured coop once for building up to 10 you may not want to do it again. 

 

So how have you used Bayard-  Are your captain strong or new (relatively speaking).

 

I avoid f.e. playing high tier premiums say 9 or 10 in random with low end captains absolutely not under 10. That is one of the reasons I have permacamo on my T10s silver ships too , to be able to build captains in coop to a degree.

Yes I have played supermany games but I have a captain for each ship and keep all so I never build up much of a elite XP storage. 

Solo or div. play

Too few games, I would say 50 is minimum, even ofc that you can see if you do very poorly or good earlier. 

 

If I look at some of my stats they are horrible in some ships compared to how they are in reality, ignoring CVs ofc as I do not play them seriously and hardly at all in randoms.

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

[Bindolaf_Werebane]

This is an interesting thread, but so broad. My short answer would be, "what good ships do I suck at" - Destroyers. "What I am doing wrong" - playing destroyers.

 

I don't have access to my stats right now, but Thunderer is shaping up to be cursed. I think I have zero victories thus far (with few games played, though).

 

Re: Smolensk, I think my WR is low, but God do I have a good time in it! I only have a 14-point captain, I think, and I'll play very aggressively. Island near the cap, murder a destroyer, light some stuff on fire, reposition... it's just such a fun ship.

 

I regret not playing the Yamato better, but not having the LM hurts quite a bit I think.

 

I won't speak of "stinkers" here, but people seem to consider the Hipper to be a gudbote... I think it's horrid and I sold it, giving up on the line.

 

It strikes me how different people's perceptions are. I love the Omaha and am decent in it. I do well in the Soyuz - which I consider overpowered - yet people seem to hate it. I couldn't deal with British battleships, but have clicked very well with KGV. And so on...

[Padds01]

got to be gerogia for me , i think my mistake is i just cant get my head around how little armour it has and i cant work the guns out at all , over 15km i get deflects off the flat side of everything, anything under 15km nothing but overpens

[_HomTanks_]

8 minutes ago, Bindolaf_Werebane said:

I do well in the Soyuz - which I consider overpowered - yet people seem to hate it. 

Bro, your Soyuz stats are below average and we don't hate it. We can't make it work, just like you, and want to know how it can be worked from people who can make it work. Does this work? 

[Taliesn]

21 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

got to be gerogia for me , i think my mistake is i just cant get my head around how little armour it has and i cant work the guns out at all , over 15km i get deflects off the flat side of everything, anything under 15km nothing but overpens

 

Are there two Georgias in the game? If we are talking about the tier IX BB, her guns are awesome, over and under 15km and her armour scheme is fine.

[Padds01]

1 minute ago, Taliesn said:

 

Are there two Georgias in the game? If we are talking about the tier IX BB, her guns are awesome, over and under 15km and her armour scheme is fine.

yeah thats the one, i know shes a good ship ive seen other people drive her . it just doesnt work for me , and that seemed to be what the thread was talking about ive had games where my damage done is hits X1.500 (maybe slight exaggeration) and her aromour , pfft for me a handfull of wet sand thrown by a child would pen it

[loppantorkel]

I played another 8 games in Bayard and it's a fun ship. Won 4, probably could've won another, but in the end, I think I'm playing it the way I want, sometimes spammy cruiser and sometimes hunting dds more aggressively. The stats and performance are within my skill range for cruisers. I considered adding a replay for critique, but I don't think there was any particularly good one. Maybe a later game.