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Shagulon

One or no DDs = bad match

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I'm seeing more and more games with hardly any or no DDs. These games do not tend to be good, and the majority of players are quite passive with no spotting and the game often degenerates into fairly boring long range contest.

 

I think WG needs to make one of their surveys and ask why players don't play DD anymore, and try to revive the class in both randoms and competitive, for the health of the game.

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Inb4 Pete comes in with the raw numbers. :Smile-_tongue:

Anyway, don't know if this is about ranked or randoms but in ranked DDs are represented more than enough. 

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Nah its ok to kill a class, to have another class* in the game :cap_like:

*which most people dont want to play

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The class is high risk, high reward.

 

When you encourage and promote newer players to rush up lines to t10 without taking the time the learn the game mechanics or many skills, those players will obviously migrate to easier to play classes where the risk of dying in the first 2-3 minutes of games is a lot less.

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12 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Inb4 Pete comes in with the raw numbers. :Smile-_tongue:

Anyway, don't know if this is about ranked or randoms but in ranked DDs are represented more than enough. 

Nah not ranked, more clan wars, KoTS and more recently, randoms.

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2 minutes ago, Shagulon said:

Nah not ranked, more clan wars, KoTS and more recently, randoms.

Clanwars and kots: CVs made DDs obsolete. Who would have thought right? 

Randoms: I guess, the new RU CA line make playing DDs even harder than they already are.

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Is there any data to indicate that DD numbers are down? I'd never notice if they were, because I'm nearly always in a DD myself so don't get DD-free games.

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Remember that when the EU-DD line was released, there was a large influx of destroyer players in games, 4 destroyers per team was very common.

Like everything else, the "Hype" died down and numbers returned to normal.

1-2 destroyers per team, and seldom 3-4, I don't see any issue.

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Had a few games with DD and CV recently and first thing the DD did was reverse.

Once the CV did usual sweep and found another target then started to move forward.

 

I think a lot of the problem is that really do need to play as a team, which is very rare.

 

DD need the air support from Cruisers and BB initially but tend to accelerate and leave behind.   So now a few tend to slink around behind the Cruisers trying to long range torp.

 

this of course leads to lack of spotting.
 

The problem as I see it is that (and not a DD player) is that a lot of the time the DD doesn’t get the support at the cap so they stopped trying.   Becomes self fulfilling.

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1 hour ago, Shagulon said:

I think WG needs to make one of their surveys and ask why players don't play DD anymore, and try to revive the class in both randoms and competitive, for the health of the game.

 

The experienced DD players  probably ranked out already.....each time i use anything else then DD i drop back in rank. From 8 ( almost 7 ) back to 10 yehaaa :Smile_sceptic:

 

Now gaining rank again.....with DD. Very strange indeed...im no DD main or even very talented with (long range) torpedoing skills. And the weird thing is that doesn't seem nessesary to end up in a winning top 3 match !:Smile_unsure:

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New radar cruiser lines tend to cause a (temporary) drop in DD numbers.

When combined with early access to a new CV line (nobody wanted), an even bigger drop in DD numbers is to be expected.

 

13 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

The experienced DD players  probably ranked out already

Nah, not very many R1 players yet. On Wows-numbers I only count 10 although it seems to incomplete.

For some reason it doesnt show me as R4 despite showing someone i played with earlier as R1 (meaning it must have updated after i reached R4)

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It wasn't that long ago we had a similar thread about this topic from what I recall there hasn't been a noticeable decline in DD players but there is an odd tendency for the match maker to sometimes shove 4 DDs per side and then the very next battle only put 1 per side or none. MacArthur did a very good discussion about this too. 

 

I do admit though from my experience battles without DDs do become considerably more passive and often result in several BBs all clustering around 1 island.

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2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Clanwars and kots: CVs made DDs obsolete. Who would have thought right? 

 

It's not that simple, especially right now and the meta shows it. DD is not doing too bad this season actually. Sure you get some playing without, but it's not like the class dead or obsolete atm.

Usually I see at least one, sometimes even more. And I'm not just referring to the squall or gale clan comps.

 

Also, Aigle is a very strong pick this season. Alone, or several(The latter is something we like to do, I think we were actually the first? That I saw anyway). 

We have a strong comp around that that is mostly impacted in effectiveness by the map in question rather than the accosting of the CV. 

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21 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

 

It's not that simple, especially right now and the meta shows it. DD is not doing too bad this season actually. Sure you get some playing without, but it's not like the class dead or obsolete atm.

Usually I see at least one, sometimes even more. And I'm not just referring to the squall or gale clan comps.

 

Also, Aigle is a very strong pick this season. Alone, or several(The latter is something we like to do, I think we were actually the first? That I saw anyway). 

We have a strong comp around that that is mostly impacted in effectiveness by the map in question rather than the accosting of the CV. 

IFHE Aigle...Ahem...

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4 minutes ago, steveraptor said:

IFHE Aigle...Ahem...

 

Yep. You need to have them specced for it. 

 

The result is pretty scary.

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7 hours ago, Shagulon said:

I'm seeing more and more games with hardly any or no DDs. These games do not tend to be good, and the majority of players are quite passive with no spotting and the game often degenerates into fairly boring long range contest.

 

I think WG needs to make one of their surveys and ask why players don't play DD anymore, and try to revive the class in both randoms and competitive, for the health of the game.

As a DD player I would like to believe that other classes are dependent on DD.

But since I also play CA and BB, I know that a lack of DD is not really an issue. Considering that BB players are fearful of torps, lack of DD should give a bigger freedom of movement.

 

Btw. the DD numbers are just slightly below normal. Considering that CA numbers are also dropping and BB numbers are increasing, I expect DD numbers to rise soon.

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Radar ships have gotten frustratingly numerous in high tier MM and the enemy Midway is so strong that one attack can decimate a big chunk of your HP and its even worse if it keeps focusing you throughout the match, which forces you to go into hiding to preserve what little HP you have left all while the lone camper at the back resorts to namecalling for not spotting and capping enemy-overrun zones. 

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20 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Btw. the DD numbers are just slightly below normal. Considering that CA numbers are also dropping and BB numbers are increasing, I expect DD numbers to rise soon.

:Smile_ohmy:    Are they so low you don't even bring the graphs?

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4 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

:Smile_ohmy:    Are they so low you don't even bring the graphs?

No.

But I do not have the data at work.

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8 hours ago, Shagulon said:

I'm seeing more and more games with hardly any or no DDs. These games do not tend to be good, and the majority of players are quite passive with no spotting and the game often degenerates into fairly boring long range contest.

 

I think WG needs to make one of their surveys and ask why players don't play DD anymore, and try to revive the class in both randoms and competitive, for the health of the game.

because you could play "around" sonar dd's and one or two radarships (no stealthradar back then and not 10+km radars) per game and you could suffer through the 1 out of 20 games with a cv b.c. rework...

 

but now you got 3-4 radarships per game now, every cruiser brings sonar now because defAA is useless anyway, and the worst thing...cv's. which ransom/permaspot you all the time and lets not even start about rockets...

 

so, i prefered playing dd's, still find them the most interesting class, but you have to give 110% every game...that's exhausting.

 

and eben if you give that 110%, one randomspoting squad passing over you, you're fu...d.

 

that's why.

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If that is the case in your experience, then one of the reasons could be rework. The good BB/Cruiser players take advantage out of this buy pushing to get citadels&ambushing. The not so good ones are passive, and they will always be more passive than the other group whether there are dds in the game or not. If there are DDs, then this group will still stay passive because of possible incoming torps or being shot at because they are spotted. They will always have an excuse to stay passive in their minds. In my experience, i happen to get more games with multiple dds than single dd and i like it better even if i am the single dd, or in a bb/cruiser and there are no dds.

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The amount of radar and CV in games made the DD's not fun to play anymore. I loved to play them especially the torpedo boats with TRB instead of smoke. Nothing more thrilling than sitting around 6-7 km away. High risk high rewards. During the last few years more and more radar came in to play and with CV's being more popular its more risk than reward. You pray when you enter for a game with less than 2 radar ships and no CV. If not well enjoy your running away game.

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So many of the classes have had features added over the years and they've been fine tuned to work in a decently balanced way. As a dd, you can play around radars. It's difficult to flank as good as before due to RPF, but sometimes it works. If you want/need to cap, you can use cover, or reverse into cap, you can bait the radar and know it's down for 2' in or so. All this fine tuning is thrown out the window when cvs are in. If the cv knows where you are and is decent, he can take you out of the battle altogether, one way or another. Smokes become a necessity rather than a useful tool, just to survive. Trying to bait radars, capping or using torps is a good way to let the cv know exactly where you are.

 

Most games vs cvs in Random battles are still okay regarding dd effectiveness, but you're always at the mercy of the enemy cv, depending on his skill and determination. Good design? Fun? Less so than before.

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Just to note; played three games this morning, 1 ranked game 1 CV and 2 DDs, 1 ranked game 0 CV and 3 DDs, 1 random 2 CVs (T6&T8) and 3 DDs.

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I wonder if DD gameplay is that interesting compared to others classes.

The only fun moments are when torps hit enemies or you get to use your guns. Mostly the gameplay is about spotting and avoiding radars and planes while waiting for opportunities.  

You only often have HP for one or two gun fights if you play in a gunboat.

Capping is mostly meaningless and a boring event. They produce points slowly and you just get radars and planes all over you along with all the shells from campers.

19/20 games are decided by noobs dying rather than points generated from caps so I've been mostly ignoring caps for 5 years now while maintaining 58-65% WR.

Is it really that interesting class to play for many? Noobs prefer to sit in the rear and snipe in their BBs instead of getting blown up in a DD.  I only enjoy the gunfights.

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