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Europizza

Call to WG: show some responsible entrepreneurship please

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By sheer coincidence, just today I saw Jim Sterling's video on the House of Lords' call for gambling mechanics in games to be legally treated the same way as all other type of gambling (wouldn't dare link directly as I wouldn't want to expose any impressionable souls to the naughty language). I'll be eager to see how that shakes out here in the UK, I wonder if WG will 'have to' stop selling loot boxes here like they did in Belgium?

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2 minutes ago, NobleSauvage said:

I'll be eager to see how that shakes out here in the UK, I wonder if WG will 'have to' stop selling loot boxes here like they did in Belgium?

It seems to be an amazing source of income, so being my positive self - I think you need laws to prevent it. Kids are only relevant occationally you know, such as swearing. Not when gambling is involved.

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1 minute ago, Nibenay78 said:

It seems to be an amazing source of income, so being my positive self - I think you need laws to prevent it. Kids are only relevant occationally you know, such as swearing. Not when gambling is involved.

I think the HoL would disagree with that last part. As far as the laws are concerned, there are already gambling laws in place; it would just be a question of adding loot boxes etc. to 'the list'...

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9 minutes ago, NobleSauvage said:

 I'll be eager to see how that shakes out here in the UK, I wonder if WG will 'have to' stop selling loot boxes here like they did in Belgium?

They did not have to. Loot boxes are not illegal in Belgium.

You need a permit and provide documentation.

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1 hour ago, Europizza said:

I'd like to point our attention to a quote a moderator writing in an abusive language thread that was closed recently, as this topic is important to both parents and minors playing this game:

 

QUOTE 'What's more, there might be minors playing this as well as it is rated for 7 years+ and I am sure that nobody here would advocate swearing like a sailor in front of some terrified 8 year old (or their parents who presumably might have to explain what all those swear words meant).' /QUOTE

 

Answers like that keep rubbing me the wrong way.

 

I'm sure parents and lawmakers do apreciate the good people at WG advocating gambling and lootboxes in this 7+ year rated game where minors might be playing.

So a call to WG: please show some responsible entrepreneurship. Change the age restriction rating to an appropriate level so parents understand what their kids are exposed to, or stop exposing minors to gamling marketing and lootboxes in your game.

 

I invite WG to officially make a statement here or on their website regarding their vision on lootboxes and ingame marketing for gambling using sunk cost fallacy techniques, with minors, very likely, playing WOWS.

 

Post Script: I'm not discussing the moderation or closing of the quoted topic. I'm also sure this topic won't be moved to an obscure part of the forum as this is a relevant topic to parents and others interested reading this forum and playing this game. Thanks.

 

Source:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Great post! In before locked and deleted.

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2 hours ago, Europizza said:

So a call to WG: please show some responsible entrepreneurship.

You kidding right? I've been warned in this forum for rubbish reasons. I had discussion with official staff telling me to be political correct and nonsense like this, which is particularly funny coming from officials that work for a company that is based in a country that bans gay marriage and just recently legalized domestic violance against women.

BTW, to add to that. Maybe you have seen Twitch clips or YT vidoes about it already, that a in the community well known WG official actually defended sexual crime against women on the official WG discord, which lead to several CCs leaving the CC program. Not too hard to find info about this if you know how to use google.

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I dont know why I bother but here goes;

 

What is the connection between what a moderator says regarding profane language and Wargamings policies as a company in the first place?

 

It is parents responsibility to raise their kids not governments. We are in this weird age where everyone expects things to be done by others while doing the absolute minimum themselves. Education regarding the gambling concepts explained by OP, parenting and a simple secondary credit card with a certain limit for online transactions would mostly solve the issue. 

 

Inviting Wargaming... pfft. In case you people havent realized Wargaming is predominantly a Russian company in norm and value, not a European one. Expecting it to abide by Western European standards is laughable at best.

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2 hours ago, Europizza said:

So a call to WG: please show some responsible entrepreneurship.

 

SummerChild.gif

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3 hours ago, NobleSauvage said:

By sheer coincidence, just today I saw Jim Sterling's video on the House of Lords' call for gambling mechanics in games to be legally treated the same way as all other type of gambling (wouldn't dare link directly as I wouldn't want to expose any impressionable souls to the naughty language). I'll be eager to see how that shakes out here in the UK, I wonder if WG will 'have to' stop selling loot boxes here like they did in Belgium?

 

I can happily go without their loot boxes as long as they won't ban boxes of chocolate. :Smile_Default:

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3 hours ago, Europizza said:

(...) regarding their vision on lootboxes (...)

I'm sure someone can find meme including misadventures of Mr Creosote and after-dinner mint...

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Guys, please stay constructive and do not turn this into a discussion of moderation.

Lootboxes and forum moderation are different topics so please don't mix them up.

This thread is about lootboxes and not moderation as stated by the OP.

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9 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Loot boxes are not illegal in Belgium. 

You need a permit and provide documentation.

Yes they are, unless you want to go very broad on your definition of "documentation".

 

You could, technically, sell smt like lootboxes, if and only if:

- The department of Justice has had a look into your glorious code (you know, just to make sure Russian RNG is the same as "western" RNG)

- The customer is informed of the exact distribution of possible winnings and the exact chance to win any of them

- The customer can be verified to be of legal age (which isn't that hard, since everyone has electronic ID)

 

Now for a real gamble (well, not really...) you can wonder if they stopped selling boxes in Belgium because it's technically too hard to integrate the payment process with one of the many apps that interacts with our ID cards, or because pushing for real ethical standards is a bridge too far? :Smile_coin:

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6 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Yes they are, unless you want to go very broad on your definition of "documentation".

As explained, WG could provide the info. THEY chose not to provide it.

It was their choice.

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

As explained, WG could provide the info. THEY chose not to provide it.

Like Trump's tax declarations... same reason, probably.

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10 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Not too hard to find info about this if you know how to use google.

My Google appears to be broken. :Smile_sceptic:

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11 minutes ago, PeteEarthling said:

Like Trump's tax declarations... same reason, probably.

Please explain your speculation, apart from being completly offtopic...

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Please explain your speculation, apart from being completly offtopic...

If you choose not to provide information that would prove you are acting within the law, then the suspicion that your might be not acting within the law might be justified.

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6 minutes ago, PeteEarthling said:

If you choose not to provide information that would prove you are acting within the law, then the suspicion that your might be not acting within the law might be justified.

The lootboxes are not against the law. They are just a bad deal.

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13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The lootboxes are not against the law. They are just a bad deal.

Please explain your speculation that they are not against the law...

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4 minutes ago, TheAlba2014 said:

Please explain your speculation that they are not against the law...

The law does not forbid loot boxes in the countries WG is offering them. Therefore they are not against the law. That is no speculation.

If WG would provide the necessary documentation, they could even get a permit to sell them in Belgium.

 

But that would show even badly informed players how badly a deal the lootboxes are and that would probably be bad for sales.

Belgium is not a big market for WG. The loss of sales in Belgium is probably smaller than the reduction of sales WG would suffer if the drop chances were known to everyone.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

The law does not forbid loot boxes in the countries WG is offering them. Therefore they are not against the law. That is no speculation.

If WG would provide the necessary documentation, they could even get a permit to sell them in Belgium.

 

But that would show even badly informed players how badly a deal the lootboxes are and that would probably be bad for sales.

Belgium is not a big market for WG. The loss of sales in Belgium is probably smaller than the reduction of sales WG would suffer if the drop chances were known to everyone.

 

As you say, that is contingent upon WG providing satisfactory documentation to comply with the law, how do you know they could provide documentation that meet the necessary criteria...that is speculation.

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Now that is just silly, WG has access to their code, they could provide the neccessary technical info same as any other software company, they prob just decided it doesnt pay off to bother with it, weather because of risk to overall sales or market simplay being to small to be worth the bother...

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20 minutes ago, TheAlba2014 said:

 

As you say, that is contingent upon WG providing satisfactory documentation to comply with the law, how do you know they could provide documentation that meet the necessary criteria...that is speculation.

Aehh...

WG knows the dropchances.

It is not really difficult to provide the numbers. There is no reason to doubt that. You are doubting trivialities...

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