Win = Reward X1,5

[COPlUM]

My biggest, well, only gripe with this game is not the game, I love everything about the game, but in random battles people very often don't play to win, it's not one class in particular, it's every class. Is there really no way to remedy this? The game is so much better when both teams use their ship's strengths to win and coordinate at least a little bit.

-DDs will set up a smoke screen behind their BBs to farm some fire damage instead of smoking up their BBs and spotting for them, like DDs will literally let BBs melt right in front of them because the BB is too slow to back out and is forced to scout for the DD. DD could easily save that BB, but he doesn't, that BB melting his 100K HP healthpool and blowing up gives the DD an extra 15-20 seconds to get salvos out and maybe set a fire for 5K (repairable) damage.
-BBs won't push or tank even if the situation desperately calls for it, presumably because that way they stay into the fight longer to apply more long range damage.

-In encounter you often see ships get as far away from the cap circles as possible, because it's dangerous there? So often the reds take all 3 circles for free and the greens are on the edge of the map.

-Even ships that are complete trash at long range and designed to push, GKs, Kremlins will often sit back and shoot HE from max range to set fires, pad damage numbers with damage that just gets repaired.

 

I feel like the game needs a banner or some way to continuously explain that if you win, rewards are mulitplied X1,5 - Bump it up to X2,0 if you must. Just something to make players in randoms play for the win and not just the damage number. I joined a clan to just play clan/ranked, they'll play for the win, so the problem is fixed for me, but it should be like this in all game modes.

In general the game needs more explaining, I'm so annoyed when half of my team goes for an uncontested cap while the rest of the team gets slaughtered 6v12 on the other side, what does being in that uncontested cap for 10 seconds give you? 10 base XP? 20 maybe? You're throwing the game for 20 xp, a win would net you an extra 500-1000 base XP. Can't even blame the players for this, at no point is X1,5 win bonus explained as far as I'm aware, most people probably don't even know.

For example, how many people actually know that if you're in a cap circle, points stop ticking for the enemy team? When you're in a DD, you see 3 or your BBs melting in a 6v3, you smoke up behind them to start a fire, does the DD not realize he's throwing away a quarter million team HP to set a fire? Nobody cares about your fire when battleships are slugging 457mm shells at eachother.

[GarrusBrutus]

inb4:

You are just an elitist statpadder who tryhards all the time to boost his fake winrate.

I pley4phun.

[DFens_666]

I dont think it really matters how much bonus you give for a win, when they can get by / progress fast enough on losses alone. Credits are even excempt from winning or losing, which is bad aswell. People can earn credits by playing premium ships and go on sightseeing tours around the map, because why not.

And the XP: doesnt matter for many players. They are simply not good enough to earn a good amount of XP in every game. Its not a big deal if they earn 500 or 900 base XP, because they can still win 4-5/10 games. If they would try a bit harder, it would only bump it up to ~5+ wins per 10 games. BUT for that to happen, they actually have to play longer than 5 mins.

I even wrote about speed yolo grinding before: Its better for them, to die in 5 minutes and pick the next ship, than to try to survive and get little bit more XP on average.

5 mins = 500 XP is more than 15 mins = 1000XP. In that 15 mins, they already finished 2 more games with 500 XP each. And before someone answers: no, the average player probably wont have hundreds of flags and camos which would actually make it worthwhile to earn more per game.

[COPlUM]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

I dont think it really matters how much bonus you give for a win, when they can get by / progress fast enough on losses alone. Credits are even excempt from winning or losing, which is bad aswell. People can earn credits by playing premium ships and go on sightseeing tours around the map, because why not.

And the XP: doesnt matter for many players. They are simply not good enough to earn a good amount of XP in every game. Its not a big deal if they earn 500 or 900 base XP, because they can still win 4-5/10 games. If they would try a bit harder, it would only bump it up to ~5+ wins per 10 games. BUT for that to happen, they actually have to play longer than 5 mins.

I even wrote about speed yolo grinding before: Its better for them, to die in 5 minutes and pick the next ship, than to try to survive and get little bit more XP on average.

5 mins = 500 XP is more than 15 mins = 1000XP. In that 15 mins, they already finished 2 more games with 500 XP each. And before someone answers: no, the average player probably wont have hundreds of flags and camos which would actually make it worthwhile to earn more per game.

Credit income isn't tied to winning? That's a terrible game design choice, game should make you want to win at all cost.
I did what you describe, my first 700 games (my first 3 tech trees) was grozovoi, hinden and montana. Until about T7-T8 I would spam 5 minute yolo games without modules, upgrades or captain skills. But once I get to T8 I actually want to play for real. Now that I play for real, I feel like i'm often the only one. Like if I see a bunch of friendly battleships melt in a 3v6, I'll go out of my way to rush in and save them with a smoke screen, people are so not used to this that they go "omg thank you thank you omg" Why are you thanking me, this is what I'm supposed to do. It's so rare for someone to be a team player that people freak out if you do it.

[COPlUM]

I hear this nonsense doesn't happen in ranked or clan because people actually have to play for real to rank up, the problem is clearly easily solved with a ranking system, so add a ranking system to random battles, problem fixed.

[GarrusBrutus]

1 minute ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I hear this nonsense doesn't happen in ranked or clan because people actually have to play for real to rank up, the problem is clearly easily solved with a ranking system, so add a ranking system to random battles, problem fixed.

That is simply not what appeals to the majority of the playerbase. The majority wants to just sail some botes and pew pew pew while spending a sh!tload of cash doing so.

[COPlUM]

2 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

That is simply not what appeals to the majority of the playerbase. The majority wants to just sail some botes and pew pew pew while spending a sh!tload of cash doing so.

I guess, majority rule and all, i'll just play clan and ranked from now on & only play randoms if I feel like turning off brain.exe
I actually spammed my way to T10 because I thought the problem would disappear there, it's better at T10 but not by much.

[Hades_warrior]

1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

That is simply not what appeals to the majority of the playerbase. The majority wants to just sail some botes and pew pew pew while spending a sh!tload of cash doing so.

Coop should be for that pew pew pew brainless shooting.

But sadly it isn't because girls wanna have fun.... in randoms.

[Ubarad]

That's it, there's no penalty for being bad.  They are rewarded similarly as everyone else.  Twice the incentive wouldn't matter, because many players just don't grasp the concept of map control.  

 

That HE spam is scary, so just keep 21km sniping from the zone wall in a Tirpitz with only the forward guns and pray someone else carries the match.  

[Tatsfield]

2 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

-In encounter you often see ships get as far away from the cap circles as possible, because it's dangerous there? So often the reds take all 3 circles for free and the greens are on the edge of the map.

This sort of generalisation doesn't work.  Red is green and green is red if you are on the other team so no one complains when green takes all the caps and red is on the edge of the map. So statistically this sort of thing cannot happen often as it would require one side to always be cap averse and even if this always happened, half the time you would benefit from it and only suffer from it for the other half.  I remember when I used to play America's Army, a lot of the players didn't seem to realise that to the other team they were not the upstanding US troops but the perfidious terrorists!

[Yedwy]

2 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

inb4:

You are just an elitist statpadder who tryhards all the time to boost his fake winrate.

I pley4phun.

You Sir are a cheeky fellow! 

[COPlUM]

1 hour ago, Tatsfield said:

This sort of generalisation doesn't work.  Red is green and green is red if you are on the other team so no one complains when green takes all the caps and red is on the edge of the map. So statistically this sort of thing cannot happen often as it would require one side to always be cap averse and even if this always happened, half the time you would benefit from it and only suffer from it for the other half.

Ok but why are you telling me this, my problem is not that it happens to *me* - Obviously it happens to the enemy team just as often. My problem is that it happens at all, to anyone. The objectives should be made clearer, they should be repeated and the game should remind people that winning = X1,5 rewards. Or there has to be a real incentive for winning, like a ranking system or anything really, not my job to come up with solutions.

[Beastofwar]

4 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

 instead of smoking up their BBs and spotting for them

 

And this will accomplish ?

 

I assume you want to fire your BB guns at DD spotted targets ? I checked T8 BB and their gun bloom in smoke still reaches out to 13- 17 km. That means enemy DD and probably most enemy Cruiser will see you asif there was no smoke. So that smoke is wasted on BB.

 

BB have armour, a high HP and heals to draw some of the fire away from Cruisers. That is your task.

 

In Operations you would have learned that if BB hide themselves, all allied Cruisers get killed. Bots are relentless at that. That is no fault of "bad player" Cruisers but the fact the usually always visible ( gun bloom ) BB do not draw some fire off the Cruisers while with their armour, high HP pools and heals they should.

 

And while randoms and ranked work differently, Cruisers will get snuffed if BB camp in the back too much. Camping in the back or staying invisible is not your task as an armoured, high HP pool captial ship with heals....

 

"It is not the task of a military unit to come back alive. It is the task of a military unit to fulfill its mission" Yours is take the damage and migate it, while dealing heavy damage yourself. It is not to be the last one afloat, and surely not if everyone around you dies because you fail at your task.

 

 

[Tatsfield]

3 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Ok but why are you telling me this, my problem is not that it happens to *me* - Obviously it happens to the enemy team just as often. My problem is that it happens at all, to anyone. The objectives should be made clearer, they should be repeated and the game should remind people that winning = X1,5 rewards. Or there has to be a real incentive for winning, like a ranking system or anything really, not my job to come up with solutions.

And people should be better and things should work the way we would like them to and we will all live happily ever after.  Sadly it doesn't seem to work like that whatever we do and we have to come to terms with things the way they are.  It's actually not that bad, and neither is WoW if you can take from it something that satisfies you.

[COPlUM]

I was just in a match where a DD sailed through A cap, nothing in sight, no enemy ships, no destroyers, no planes, nothing. He sailed through A cap and left it with less than 5 seconds until capture. He then sailed through B cap, same thing, no pressure, no other ships in sight, nothing to dodge, no threat of any kind, sailed right through it, left it a few seconds before it capped. I am unironically worried there are people who dont even know what cap circles are for.

[COPlUM]

5 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

And this will accomplish ?

Being able to disengage from a fight you are losing, reposition instead of dying.

*Edit : Nevermind, you're the guy who ironically said dodging torpedoes is abusing game mechanics and is clearly cheating. Why am I even responding

[El2aZeR]

5 hours ago, Beastofwar said:

In Operations you would have learned that if BB hide themselves, all allied Cruisers get killed. Bots are relentless at that.

 

Bots tend to fire at the lowest HP target regardless, so your presence in a BB is worthless as a tank.

In general tanking in a traditional sense doesn't exist in this game.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 12 Stunden, NikolayKuznetsov sagte:

-DDs will set up a smoke screen behind their BBs to farm some fire damage instead of smoking up their BBs and spotting for them...

Right here I stopped reading.

[Tatsfield]

2 hours ago, Johnny_Moneto said:

Right here I stopped reading.

Why? I didn't understand what you are saying.  As a BB skipper I tend to find that DD skippers often have their own agenda and race around doing their thing but rarely see BBs as team members who need help and support. And I'm not opening the can of worms that is labelled "BBs camp, avoid battle and sit on the map edge" because I don't do that.

[BlackYeti]

4 hours ago, Tatsfield said:

Why? I didn't understand what you are saying.  As a BB skipper I tend to find that DD skippers often have their own agenda and race around doing their thing but rarely see BBs as team members who need help and support. And I'm not opening the can of worms that is labelled "BBs camp, avoid battle and sit on the map edge" because I don't do that.

Because BB gun bloom renders smoke useless? For a BB smoke is only useful to let the BB disengage, which is kinda a waste of a precious consumable charge.

[COPlUM]

24 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

For a BB smoke is only useful to let the BB disengage, which is kinda a waste of a precious consumable charge.

I actually dont understand either, if a BB is overextended, is melting and you save him so he can disengage, heal up, how is that a waste of a precious consumable. I do it frequently, BBs appreciate it. Some will continue trading and die, many will actually use the opportunity to save themselves. And if they continue trading and die, I can still use that smoke to do my thing, did not waste it.

[Beastofwar]

10 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Bots tend to fire at the lowest HP target regardless, so your presence in a BB is worthless as a tank.

In general tanking in a traditional sense doesn't exist in this game.

 

I was talking about short after match start El2aZeR.....fragile Cruisers that cannot smoke will be more distant then BB in general.

 

Those cruisers tend to explode ( or could not shoot at all because of gun bloom ) when BB manage to hide themselves from bot LOS. As nothing will cause the bots to fire on anything else then the lowest HP....wich are full HP Cruisers....

 

Now in randoms as said things are different......but not THAT different.  Everyone knows players in general rather fire (HE ) on a large target and cumbersome moving BB then an agile agressive evading smaller target cruiser. But when no BB is to be seen they will fire on Cruisers....So yes, a BB's task is to draw some of the fire away from more fragile targets. It is intended to be a TEAM game.

 

That this task not nescessarily coresponds with personal high scores is why it is ignored so much. You afterall need a whole team performing their taks to make these mechanisms work, while a good aiming indifidual player in a messy shell lobbing fight is easier to make a difference all by himself.

[iFax]

Stop stupid events and targets that focus single player objectives.

[Johnny_Moneto]

Vor 2 Stunden, NikolayKuznetsov sagte:

I actually dont understand either, if a BB is overextended, is melting and you save him so he can disengage, heal up, how is that a waste of a precious consumable. I do it frequently, BBs appreciate it. Some will continue trading and die, many will actually use the opportunity to save themselves. And if they continue trading and die, I can still use that smoke to do my thing, did not waste it.

What you wrote read more like "smoke up the BB so that it can shoot from inside the smoke". Maybe that's not what you meant but it sure read this way. 

[Cyclops_]

22 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

 

-DDs will set up a smoke screen behind their BBs to farm some fire damage instead of smoking up their BBs and spotting for them, like DDs will literally let BBs melt right in front of them because the BB is too slow to back out and is forced to scout for the DD. DD

 

What  planet are you on??? BB can no longer sit in smoke and fire unseen, very strange indeed, I have never seen DD sitting at the back, why ?? Because they do not have guns that can shoot that far.