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raz207

Captain training logic

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Need help here to understand the system:

Q1:

- Regular Ship to Premium - No need training

- Premium Ship Back to the same ship - No need training?

- Regular ship - Regular ship - Training

- Regular ship high Tier back to Old ship ?

Situation

I have a captain moved from Edinburgh to Neptune was trained on both, Than when it comes back to Edinburgh they ask for retraining

But

I have a captain moved from Benson to Fletcher was trained on both Coming back to Benson the system don't ask for retraining?

Q2

and what about 19 points captains do they need 150K retraining every time they will be moved? that's crazy.
Q3

Would appreciate getting some more insights on Captain training best practices?

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WoWs Wiki Team, Supertester, Privateer
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2 minutes ago, raz207 said:

Need help here to understand the system:

Q1:

- Regular Ship to Premium - No need training

- Premium Ship Back to the same ship - No need training?

- Regular ship - Regular ship - Training

- Regular ship high Tier back to Old ship ?

Situation

I have a captain moved from Edinburgh to Neptune was trained on both, Than when it comes back to Edinburgh they ask for retraining

But

I have a captain moved from Benson to Fletcher was trained on both Coming back to Benson the system don't ask for retraining?

Q2

and what about 19 points captains do they need 150K retraining every time they will be moved? that's crazy.
Q3

Would appreciate getting some more insights on Captain training best practices?

A commander can be "trained" to just one single Tech-Tree-Ship, not on "both" as you mention.

 

And yes, 19-pointers have to be retrained when moved between tech-tree-ships but 19ers do gain "Elite-Captain-XP" which can be used for doing the retraining instantly. That's why participiating in events with event-19ers are quite useful. 

 

As you got you can assign a Captain to a new tech-tree-ship, start (re-)training but complete this training on a Premium- or Special-Ship,. It'll do the progress so you don't have to endure the not-working or not-fully-working perks on your new tech-tree-ship. 

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2 minutes ago, HARBINGER_OF_SKULLS said:

Would be great if there were free retrainings/reskillings as mission/event rewards...

Lets start with the basic, UNDO when you you make a mistake in choosing a captain skill or atleast do some like 5 "flex" points that could be changed based on your build without changing the whole points.

 

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1 hour ago, raz207 said:

 

  1. - Regular Ship to Premium - No need training
  2. - Premium Ship Back to the same ship - No need training?
  3. - Regular ship - Regular ship - Training
  4. - Regular ship high Tier back to Old ship ?
  5. and what about 19 points captains do they need 150K retraining every time they will be moved? that's crazy.
  6. Would appreciate getting some more insights on Captain training best practices?
  1. Yes
  2. Yes
  3. Yes
  4. Needs training, captains are trained only for one ship
  5. do not move 19 point captain between silver ships too often, train them for one ship and otherwise use them for premium ships
  6. Take one captain up a line, optimise him for the Tier X ship from the beginning, when you reach Tier X he has 14 to 16 points, keep him on the Tier X, get new captains for the lower Tiers ships you wanted to keep
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1 hour ago, raz207 said:

Need help here to understand the system:

Q1:

- Regular Ship to Premium - No need training

- Premium Ship Back to the same ship - No need training?

- Regular ship - Regular ship - Training

- Regular ship high Tier back to Old ship ?

Situation

I have a captain moved from Edinburgh to Neptune was trained on both, Than when it comes back to Edinburgh they ask for retraining

But

I have a captain moved from Benson to Fletcher was trained on both Coming back to Benson the system don't ask for retraining?

Q2

and what about 19 points captains do they need 150K retraining every time they will be moved? that's crazy.
Q3

Would appreciate getting some more insights on Captain training best practices?

 

The unlogic caused me to never use this until late into progression.....so i still have few 19 pointers even after years of playing. Even deleted a few 14 pointers way back because i didn't want to pay reskilling them....and all that time it does make you underperform as some skills are rather manadatory or difficult to play without.

 

As stated you can only assign a captain to 1 tech tree ( silver/white named ) ship. When you move him to another ( silver/white named ) ship you have to retrain.

 

You can freely move a captain to a ( gold/yellow named)  premium or special ship. And back to ( his own ) ( silver/white ) named tech tree ship again without retraining. I personally swich them around in their class a lot not.

 

High point captains become extremely slow to retrain, even if you pay the 200k to give then 50 % retraining. So wether or not you put a new one in a higher tier ship ( that will at first progrress lightning fast but the ships perfomace may even more "disappoint" then it's already stock reseach state does ) or retrain the old one.....it's gimped performance in a stock state either way. You may however speed up progression somewhat by putting the (still) retraining captain back in a premum or special ship. That retrains him to the new tech tree ship too, he does not actually have to be in that ship.

 

Then again higher tiers come with more complex mechanics.....you see the comlaining about that everywhere in the forums. You may need high pointers to deal with those mechanics better. I train new captains in Operations so they may have basic skills before they enter PvP. But i also enjoy high pointers in Operations in Premium ships ( to where they can be freely moved ) as without them they would always perform "nerfed"

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Would be nice to have free retraining when moving up the tiers as captain is getting more experienced, learning how to operate better and better ships. But if you want to move your highly skilled 19pt captain back down to tier 5 or 6 for example you need to retrain him (pay).

 

One side note, has nothing to do with ships but I find it interesting. I was watching some documentary ages ago. Topic was WW2 and difference between Russian and German tank doctrines.

In Germany, when new tank came of the assembly line it was so drastically different form the previous one, the crew had to be retrained. It took a lot time and effort.

In Russia in other hand, most new tanks operated the same, from the inside they looked the same, so a crew could jump from old tank to a new one with little to no retraining. It saved Russian a lot of time.

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1 hour ago, raz207 said:

and what about 19 points captains do they need 150K retraining every time they will be moved? that's crazy.

 

Once a captain reaches 19 points they will start earning Elite Captain Exp, which can then be used to not only boost the level of an existing captain with less than 19 points but also pay for retraining one.

This is why this

19 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

Even deleted a few 14 pointers way back because i didn't want to pay reskilling them

 

is a severe mistake. Never do this.

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19 minutes ago, quickr said:

Would be nice to have free retraining when moving up the tiers as captain is getting more experienced, learning how to operate better and better ships. But if you want to move your highly skilled 19pt captain back down to tier 5 or 6 for example you need to retrain him (pay).

 

One side note, has nothing to do with ships but I find it interesting. I was watching some documentary ages ago. Topic was WW2 and difference between Russian and German tank doctrines.

In Germany, when new tank came of the assembly line it was so drastically different form the previous one, the crew had to be retrained. It took a lot time and effort.

In Russia in other hand, most new tanks operated the same, from the inside they looked the same, so a crew could jump from old tank to a new one with little to no retraining. It saved Russian a lot of time.

 

Russian tank were destroyed a lot quicker too, tank crews had a much lower life expectancy ( untill very late in the war ) and even the engine and mechanical parts had rather hours maximum operating time then months or years......

 

The Germans did that different too.....not a winning strategy though. Quantity over Quality was a contributing factor winning WWII. But at a high cost for it's operators. I some countries that is unimportant.

 

Quote

is a severe mistake. Never do this.

 

I'm well aware of that now. Non-19 point captains and non fully researched tech tree ships can ( or probably will often ) make you underperform.

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8 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Russian tank were destroyed a lot quicker too, tank crews had a much lower life expectancy ( untill very late in the war ) and even the engine and mechanical parts had rather hours maximum operating time then months or years......

 

The Germans did that different too.....not a winning strategy though. Quantity over Quality was a contributing factor winning WWII. But at a high cost for it's operators. I some countries that is unimportant.

 

 

Guess it depends on what you got more to spare. Mind you, both can be winning strategies as there are multiple other factors in play.

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I didn't want to comment on crew expendability and how each nation treated it's soldiers. It's a dangerous territory :Smile_hiding:

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7 minutes ago, quickr said:

I didn't want to comment on crew expendability and how each nation treated it's soldiers. It's a dangerous territory :Smile_hiding:

 

A veritable mine field, indeed. :Smile_ohmy:

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1 hour ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

A veritable mine field, indeed. :Smile_ohmy:

Interesting metaphor in the circumstances...

 

Regarding the topic: personally I've not yet tried to seriously train up any captains; it just seems like an extra fiddle that I can't really be bothered with. Then again I don't play the kind of games where not having a certain skill is apparently a pre-destination for failure; if I ever start playing more competitively I might engage with it a little more. That said, in terms of best practice if you have a particular line that you want to grind captains for, get a premium that meshes well with that line and use that to give a captain an extra daily first-win bonus; if you have a host of similar-enough premiums you can swap back and forth between for extra results.

 

Also, on a slight tangent, if you run some ships regularly without commanders you can show or hide these using the viewing options for the carousel in Port; there's options for showing/hiding elite'd tech tree ships and premiums/specials as well if I recall correctly. Might be of use in terms of helping you remember which ships to move the captains to ;)

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The oddest thing about captain training is that I sometimes do better with a 0 pt captain onboard. Could be some ships just work better than others, regardless of captain skills....

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8 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

The oddest thing about captain training is that I sometimes do better with a 0 pt captain onboard. Could be some ships just work better than others, regardless of captain skills....

But surely not comrade, because spreadshiet say balans? :Smile_teethhappy:

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2 minutes ago, NobleSauvage said:

But surely not comrade, because spreadshiet say balans? :Smile_teethhappy:

 

I must have been mistaken, comrade. :Smile_glasses:

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4 hours ago, raz207 said:

Would appreciate getting some more insights on Captain training best practices?

Besides what everyone else has said:

  • IMO, you need at least ten points on any T5+ ship (apart from Coop mode) as that's the point where +2 MM kicks in and you need every advantage you can get.
  • The exact approach to take will depend quite a bit on how long you've been playing for (do you have any/many 19 point captains), and if you spend money on the game (moving a captain between silver ships without using any elite/free xp costs 500 doubloons). If you're f2p, elite xp is very valuable, and you should make as much effort to play special events where you get 19 point captains as possible (as mentioned above); you'll probably also want to focus your efforts (at least initially) on relatively few captains.
  • The key aim, in the longer term, is to get your first 19 point captain (ideally on a silver ship you play a lot, and even more ideally for a line where you have at least one premium ship available); this 19 pointer then generates elite xp that can be used on any other captain. Your first 19 pointer is a good place to focus xp-boosting flags and cammo, so as to maximise his impact. Once you have your first 19 pointer, the second is faster to get, and the effect snowballs from there.
  • There are a number of possible approaches to take vis-a-vis captains, as you make your way up a tree; the usual approach is to move your captains up as you go, so you have the best available captain on the ship that you're most actively playing. Some people 'leapfrog' a pair (or more) of good captains; it's also sensible to leave at least a 10 pointer on any keepers. The exact approach that's optimal for any given player will be largely dictated by the resource they have available though.
  • Although some people are noisily opposed to the idea, it looks like the Research Bureau is here to stay; it's worth having this in the back of your mind when thinking about captains - if/when you regrind a line, you'll need captains for each silver ship. What WG would presumably like people to do is an exact repeat of the initial grind, as that often involves spending doubloons (=money). A better approach is to identify which line you intend regrinding, and make sure you have an acceptable captain for each ship you won't free-xp (for me that means T5+, but YMMV); when you reset the line, all the captains go into reserve, and you don't have to waste resources moving them between ships. If you aren't massively impatient, it is very worthwhile to avoid regrinding multiple lines, and just do the one where you have the good captains repeatedly; for example, my usual regrind line is the IJN torp DDs, and I think I have 19 point captains now for every ship from T6-T9, after repeating the exercise several times - this makes subsequent regrinds much less painful.
  • Think/plan ahead! When you're in the lower reaches of a line, take the time to look through all the ships up to T10 and look for similarities in necessary captain skills, and identify any outliers that may call for a non-standard build. Resetting captain skills can be really expensive (more so for a high pointer, as cost scales with number of points assigned), so you want to avoid doing so as much as possible. If you're going to take a captain up the tiers with you, it's helpful if you avoid getting to the high tiers and realising you made a pig's ear of the skill picks. So, as much as possible, it's sensible to focus on a 'core' build first, that will work on everything, and expand out to the more peripheral skills when they become more important (at higher tiers).
  • Ask questions on here and look at Ship Comrade (http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc) *before* you assign captain points; the captain skills section for each ship in the wiki is also worth having a look at too. There is often no 100% consensus on the best build for a given ship, but you'll be able to avoid too many of the classic pitfalls (SE on BBs, for example, or FP on a DD - that kind of thing).
  • Keep a close eye out for free captain resets; lately, WG seems to have had an attack of the 'stingy w4nkers' (points for spotting that reference), so these are rather rarer than they used to be, but they still do happen. When one happens, make use of it - you'll potentially save a lot of doubloons. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned dismissing badly mis-specced captains; this is inordinately unwise - if you do badly mess up a captain, just plonk him in reserve and wait for the next respec; anything 10 points or higher is far too valuable to simply throw away.
  • Avoid weird/speciality captain builds as much as possible until you have xp to spare. For example, MA is most fun with a secondary build, but none of the main silver line ships are remotely optimal using such a build; so, the thing to do here is use a standard 'tank' captain from the silver line on MA (which is actually optimal anyway, if a bit less fun) initially, and then worry about building a special 'manly' captain for MA much later, when you have 19 pointers coming out of your ears.

Hopefully, some of that may be vaguely of use....

 

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24 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

The oddest thing about captain training is that I sometimes do better with a 0 pt captain onboard. Could be some ships just work better than others, regardless of captain skills....

 

That screenshot of me in 1st pos with a Kiev in ranked ? :Smile_teethhappy::Smile_teethhappy:

 

That mode allows crazy stuff.....

 

 

wows 6.jpg

 

image.png.e32ac6326e34a2a4f17448b4db0b13e9.png

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9 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Besides what everyone else has said:

  • IMO, you need at least ten points on any T5+ ship (apart from Coop mode) as that's the point where +2 MM kicks in and you need every advantage you can get.
  • The exact approach to take will depend quite a bit on how long you've been playing for (do you have any/many 19 point captains), and if you spend money on the game (moving a captain between silver ships without using any elite/free xp costs 500 doubloons). If you're f2p, elite xp is very valuable, and you should make as much effort to play special events where you get 19 point captains as possible (as mentioned above); you'll probably also want to focus your efforts (at least initially) on relatively few captains.
  • The key aim, in the longer term, is to get your first 19 point captain (ideally on a silver ship you play a lot, and even more ideally for a line where you have at least one premium ship available); this 19 pointer then generates elite xp that can be used on any other captain. Your first 19 pointer is a good place to focus xp-boosting flags and cammo, so as to maximise his impact. Once you have your first 19 pointer, the second is faster to get, and the effect snowballs from there.
  • There are a number of possible approaches to take vis-a-vis captains, as you make your way up a tree; the usual approach is to move your captains up as you go, so you have the best available captain on the ship that you're most actively playing. Some people 'leapfrog' a pair (or more) of good captains; it's also sensible to leave at least a 10 pointer on any keepers. The exact approach that's optimal for any given player will be largely dictated by the resource they have available though.
  • Although some people are noisily opposed to the idea, it looks like the Research Bureau is here to stay; it's worth having this in the back of your mind when thinking about captains - if/when you regrind a line, you'll need captains for each silver ship. What WG would presumably like people to do is an exact repeat of the initial grind, as that often involves spending doubloons (=money). A better approach is to identify which line you intend regrinding, and make sure you have an acceptable captain for each ship you won't free-xp (for me that means T5+, but YMMV); when you reset the line, all the captains go into reserve, and you don't have to waste resources moving them between ships. If you aren't massively impatient, it is very worthwhile to avoid regrinding multiple lines, and just do the one where you have the good captains repeatedly; for example, my usual regrind line is the IJN torp DDs, and I think I have 19 point captains now for every ship from T6-T9, after repeating the exercise several times - this makes subsequent regrinds much less painful.
  • Think/plan ahead! When you're in the lower reaches of a line, take the time to look through all the ships up to T10 and look for similarities in necessary captain skills, and identify any outliers that may call for a non-standard build. Resetting captain skills can be really expensive (more so for a high pointer, as cost scales with number of points assigned), so you want to avoid doing so as much as possible. If you're going to take a captain up the tiers with you, it's helpful if you avoid getting to the high tiers and realising you made a pig's ear of the skill picks. So, as much as possible, it's sensible to focus on a 'core' build first, that will work on everything, and expand out to the more peripheral skills when they become more important (at higher tiers).
  • Ask questions on here and look at Ship Comrade (http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc) *before* you assign captain points; the captain skills section for each ship in the wiki is also worth having a look at too. There is often no 100% consensus on the best build for a given ship, but you'll be able to avoid too many of the classic pitfalls (SE on BBs, for example, or FP on a DD - that kind of thing).
  • Keep a close eye out for free captain resets; lately, WG seems to have had an attack of the 'stingy w4nkers' (points for spotting that reference), so these are rather rarer than they used to be, but they still do happen. When one happens, make use of it - you'll potentially save a lot of doubloons. Earlier in the thread someone mentioned dismissing badly mis-specced captains; this is inordinately unwise - if you do badly mess up a captain, just plonk him in reserve and wait for the next respec; anything 10 points or higher is far too valuable to simply throw away.
  • Avoid weird/speciality captain builds as much as possible until you have xp to spare. For example, MA is most fun with a secondary build, but none of the main silver line ships are remotely optimal using such a build; so, the thing to do here is use a standard 'tank' captain from the silver line on MA (which is actually optimal anyway, if a bit less fun) initially, and then worry about building a special 'manly' captain for MA much later, when you have 19 pointers coming out of your ears.

Hopefully, some of that may be vaguely of use....

 

 

It will keep the Western Civilization (such as it is) safe from Huns and Vandals for the next 500 years at least. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

2 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

That screenshot of me in 1st pos with a Kiev in ranked ? :Smile_teethhappy::Smile_teethhappy:

 

That mode allows crazy stuff.....

 

 

wows 6.jpg

 

Ranked is always a little strange. I dont' have much experience with the 'new' Kiev, the old one was the ship that I got my first ever Kraken with. :Smile_Default:

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