Sharana

[Basics] AA mechanics

100 posts in this topic

Nice one.

 

btw do you know the RNG spread? Is it also +-25%?


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Nice one.

btw do you know the RNG spread? Is it also +-25%?

 

I doubt we will ever learn it, but it can be even more from what I experienced so far :)


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Hmmm the only new thing I found seems to be the multiplier for focus fire (I thought it would only make full "aura" aka AA damage go to the selected squadron). Still, that's an important part. Thanks for sharing!


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there should be a hull upgrade to put miniguns for montana so it would reach 100 effective AA :trollface:

 


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Nice one Sharana , have a +1, very well written and visualized.

 

 

 

 

[Ask that dev about details for the spotting mechanics (smoke screens, visual points, detectability of torps) that would be great]


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I actually suspected that's how it works, but it's nice to have a confirmation. 


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Nice one Sharana, that's very well explained, Im keeping well away from Montana!!


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Answers all the questions I could have had.

 

Thanks!


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Very interesting read indeed! This was both educational and helpful for me.

Thank you very much & +1   :)


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At 132 knots, the TB squadron will need 31 seconds to cover 2,1 kilometers of long-range 5" anti-air fire; taking 2400 damage, one plane lost

Then they come into the second aura, where they are also engaged by the 40mm bofors (or does the Monty have 3" guns like the Des Moines?). They will need 29 seconds to cover the 2 kilometers, and at 744 damage per second (I think this is 5" + 40mm fire) will take 21.500 damage, which is enough to destroy the entire squadron. In fact, they will be able to fly only for 12 seconds in the second aura, which means they will get within roughly 4 kilometers of the ship before being destroyed. 

 

There is something wrong with the ranges lol. 

 

I do think the broken scale used in the game is a problem here. Planes don't need 1 minute and 40 seconds (7000 meters at 68 meters per second, or 132 knots) to close distance with a ship .

 

But still, the AA is stupidly strong. Focused, the TB's can last 15 seconds inside the secondary aura and only 10 seconds inside the third aura. If the DPS numbers that you put up aren't stacked, they last 14 seconds in the secondary aura, and only 6 seconds in the third aura. 

Edited by chaplainDMK

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[Ask that dev about details for the spotting mechanics (smoke screens, visual points, detectability of torps) that would be great]

I have info about it already and will make such post soon :)

 

There is something wrong with the ranges lol. 

The game is scaled, the BBs are acuatlly ~1km long. Because of that scale everything is much faster - ships,planes,torps.

 

But still, the AA is stupidly strong. Focused, the TB's can last 15 seconds inside the secondary aura and only 10 seconds inside the third aura. If the DPS numbers that you put up aren't stacked, they last 14 seconds in the secondary aura, and only 6 seconds in the third aura. 

Yes the AA is really strong on high tiers, but we don't have tier X CVs and only 1 tier IX. Also the avg dps on those pictures is stacked already, that's why it's just pointless to attack with 1-2 squadrons, because they will just die without inflicting any damage. When you attack with many squadrons some survive to attack, but are killed during the retreat.


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I knew that AA mechanic were stupid, but thanks helping me realize how really stupid....


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Yeah, AA ranges with all the upgrades are a bit silly. And worst part is their panic button skill works in all zones. So when CA press "Y" button it means it will affect circle with more than 7 km radius. Sometimes CA help without being aware of what they are doing, just because how silly is this range.

 

I think the most annoying is that this whole thing works on zones and not ranges. So guns are as affective at the edge of the zone as they are near the ship. As a result you might lose a plane from ridiculous distances. I just hope RNG changes based on the distance, but from my experience it doesn't look like it does. It looks like this is just zones. Sharana are you able to clear this up for me?

Is the damage from the guns have the same effectivnes in the whole zone?

Edited by Ishiro32

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Is the damage from the guns have the same effectivnes in the whole zone?

Yes - this avarage dps in constant in his aura and there is only RNG to decide it's effectiveness - if the shots are  good or bad and say when is the plane shot down.

 

Interesting, explains a lot of my questions regarding AA fire on ships.

There are still questions left? Just ask in such case, so we can clear them :)


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Yes - this avarage dps in constand in his aura and there is only RNG to say good shots/bad shots and say when is the plane shot down.

 

Why can't just put linear or exponential growth or any simple function that make sense to calculate effectivnes? Why rigid zones and not gradient ones for each type of gun? It would still be auras, but they would make more sense and they shouldn't be very expensive to compute. Gun having the same dps on his max range and minimum range is just silly.

Oh well... 

 

No really this system is so bare bones it is not even funny. I understand that calculating each gun would kill computers so aura system make sense but zones must be a bit more complicated for it to really work well. This looks more like a placeholder resolution than final product.

Edited by Ishiro32

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Yeah, AA ranges with all the upgrades are a bit silly. And worst part is their panic button skill works in all zones. So when CA press "Y" button it means it will affect circle with more than 7 km radius. Sometimes CA help without being aware of what they are doing, just because how silly is this range.

 

I think the most annoying is that this whole thing works on zones and not ranges. So guns are as affective at the edge of the zone as they are near the ship. As a result you might lose a plane from ridiculous distances. I just hope RNG changes based on the distance, but from my experience it doesn't look like it does. It looks like this is just zones. Sharana are you able to clear this up for me?

Is the damage from the guns have the same effectivnes in the whole zone?

 

I think this should be implemented, effectiveness at ranges and situations. The big 4-5" guns should be most effective at long range, and less effective closer in. They should be useless defending against direct attack (e.g. DB's or TB's in their attack runs). The medium caliber guns should be far less effective at long range, and improve in effectivness closer in. The lightest AA guns should have by far the least range, but they should be extremely effective against planes in their attack run. Like they for example have a DPS that is lower than the medium guns at any range, but they get a huge modifier against planes that are in their attack run, as at that point the high rate of fire would make them ideal to deal damage in the short timespan of the attacks.  Edited by chaplainDMK

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Very nice post. 

Nice to learn that I don't have to angle my ship against the planes (Till now I always tried to point as many AA guns at the planes as possible, by turning my broadside or front towards it depending on the ship)

And it's nice to know what the skill actually do (the wording in the tooltip is a bit confusing)

 


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Great explanation for something I was wondering about just yesterday! Just like Hummus, I would try to angle my ship in an attempt to maximize my "PEW PEW" effectiveness, glad to know I don't need to do it.

 

I have just one more question that's more of a curiosity: Because the planes have hidden HP, is it possible for them to be damage by the main turrets or secondary (not AA) turrets? Yesterday a very interesting image showed up in reddit, a Kawachi with 1 airplane kill. 

 

yBmBt3r.png

 

Edited by TheDraconicLord

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Very nice post. 

Nice to learn that I don't have to angle my ship against the planes (Till now I always tried to point as many AA guns at the planes as possible, by turning my broadside or front towards it depending on the ship)

And it's nice to know what the skill actually do (the wording in the tooltip is a bit confusing)

 

Yes some skills are poorly explained (even worse when translated from russian in english) and that should be reworked in 0.3.2 when some skills are moved and new ones are added.

 

And about the turning - you should try to turn depending on the planes. TBs attack your broadside, so don't show it. DBs attack from bow to stern (or the opposite), so try to show them only your broadside.

 

View PostTheDraconicLord, on 20 May 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

Great explanation for something I was wondering about just yesterday! Just like Hummus, I would try to angle my ship in an attempt to maximize my "PEW PEW" effectiveness, glad to know I don't need to do it.

 

I have just one more question that's more of a curiosity: Because the planes have hidden HP, is it possible for them to be damage by the main turrets or secondary (not AA) turrets? Yesterday a very interesting image showed up in reddit, a Kawachi with 1 airplane kill. 

The Kawachi may have wery weak AA, but it's not 0, so it can still shoot down some planes given enough time. And guns can't hit/interact with the planes. They are damaged only by those auras around the ship.


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Yes some skills are poorly explained (even worse when translated from russian in english) and that should be reworked in 0.3.2 when somke skills are moved and new ones are added.

 

And about the turning - you should try to turn depending on the planes. TBs attack your broadside, so don't show it. DBs attack from bow to stern (or the opposite), so try to show them only your broadside.

 

The skills where a bit confusing because the module says "increased maximum firing range" (nice and clear)  but the skills talks about "engagement area radius"  (wtf ? :P ) I took both skills ofc since a US cruiser is AA cover for the team, so any skills with extra AA are good skills :)

 

I wasn't turning to avoid the planes .... I am mostly turning to kill the planes. At the higher tiers most CV players know not to try and attack the US cruiser, since my Y skill will make the DB bombs miss no matter what angle they have, and the TB's have waay better targets then my ship. A fully AA skilled Des Moines does very nasty things to planes :)

Edited by Hummus

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Very nice post :great:

 

I have question about automatic selection of AA target (without manual selection via Ctrl key) - Is it the first squadron which enters AA aura or it is nearest squadron to the ship?


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I have question about automatic selection of AA target (without manual selection via Ctrl key) - Is it the first squadron which enters AA aura or it is nearest squadron to the ship?

 

It was explained in the post - they to choose the most dangerous target for the ship. That's the closest strike squadron (TB or DB) flying towards the ship. From what I saw in the gamefiles TBs and DBs have the same priority.

 

Note: Each aura can attack only 1 squadron at a time and this will be the most dangerous one. Example: There are fighters, TBs flying towards the ship and TBs flying away from the ship - the AA auras will attack the TBs flying towards the ship unless another squadron is focused by the player.


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