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NikolayKuznetsov

Abandoned flank as a BB

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The only games where I really have no idea what to do is this example

I'm in a battleship, majority of my team goes to A, a few ships go to C. The enemy team is doing the opposite thing, majority goes to C, a few go to A. What always ends up happening is my team wins their 9v3 at A, I get crushed in my 3v9, is there any way to avoid this? What makes this worse is if this happens, the other 2 ships with you, say, a cruiser and a destroyer, will just leave and make it a 1v9 and go farm some damage on the other side, making it an 11v3 on that side. If it happens when I'm in a DD or CA I don't abandon the lone BB on that flank, try to help him out, nobody ever helps me out, they just back out and let me tank 3 million damage, I can't back out in a BB, I'm too slow. Are games like this just "bad luck" so like there's no counter, you just got the short end of the stick?

People tell me I should stop trying to win, random battles isn't about winning, winning is stupid, you're supposed to farm damage. Maybe I should play clan and/or  ranked instead if I'm actually interested in winning the match?

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4 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I can't back out in a BB, I'm too slow.

 

Hightier BBs should be able to retreat, only some really slow [edited]midtier BBs will pretty much die because they cant escape any longer (QE and US BBs f.e.)

First and foremost, if you are on the weakflank, the objective is to stay alive. Create a crossfire when the enemies have to turn towards the rest of your team. Yes, if your team cant manage a 9vs3 then it doesnt matter what you do, thats a loss from the start.

I remember a Monarch game on Trap. I spawned at B, and because all BBs ran to C, i decided to help at A. I couldnt even get there, before everyone from my team at A just died. So i got some shots in, and started running away immediately towards a position, where enemies wont follow me. Monarch has good concealment, so i could move without being spotted till the DD came close enough. But he also went for B cap, thinking, im not a threat. I shot their broadsides, while they clashed with the rest of our team in B. And it looked really bad for our team, we only had 2 DDs and me in the end, while the enemies had Musashi, Massa, 2 DDs and 2 Cruisers. My DDs managed to kill the Musashi and a Cruiser with torps, which made it much easier for me, as Musashi is a huge threat. Then i could push in again and blapp the Neptune which was rushing my DDs. Made the Massa run off, my 2 DDs outplayed their DDs which made huge mistakes (kiev + shima vs Akizuki + Harugumo). Ofc the Massa also misplayed by running away from me, but essentially because i stayed alive, i could help turn the game in the end.

 

13 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

People tell me I should stop trying to win, random battles isn't about winning, winning is stupid, you're supposed to farm damage. Maybe I should play clan and/or  ranked instead if I'm actually interested in winning the match?

 

Or play 3x division.

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12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Kiting is the only option you have.

Right that's what I do, this allows me to tank 3+ million damage before going down, but going down is inevitable seems like, I don't remember ever getting in this situation without dying. So it is pretty much a short end of the stick deal? How should I avoid getting myself in that situation? Do I switch flanks early in the match and go with the large group? That just makes it worse for whoever does go on the weak flank. And if everyone did this to avoid the scenario, wouldn't you get a stupid scenario where both teams chase eachother in a circle?

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Being a potato player, especially in randoms playing my DD (level IV-V) we must follow the Minimap ships movement, and trying to figure out where I can be more useful, as a DD. Some times I try as you said helping a BB, or cruiser, but if numbers are againts us, the best is to reposition, is possible (in DD, with slow ships, is nearly impossible), keep distance, and "wait" what happening in distribution forces. I guess this is Kitting thing (my english is poor, but I am guessing is something like that).

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About the kiting, when faced with 9 enemy ships, I'm afraid to turn around, so I reverse out, is that a good or a bad idea? It feels like the right thing to do at the time because at no point do I show broadside, but on the other hand my retreat it very slow and death is inevitable. Should I back out and die slow or risk getting blapped doing a U-turn to kite away?

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Just now, NikolayKuznetsov said:

About the kiting, when faced with 9 enemy ships, I'm afraid to turn around, so I reverse out, is that a good or a bad idea? It feels like the right thing to do at the time because at no point do I show broadside, but on the other hand my retreat it very slow and death is inevitable. Should I back out and die slow or risk getting blapped doing a U-turn to kite away?

 

At sufficient range, doing a u-turn shouldnt hurt that much. Or use an island. or turn before you are overwhelmed. No reason to be bow-in on the weak flank.

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Just now, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Right that's what I do, this allows me to tank 3+ million damage before going down, but going down is inevitable seems like, I don't remember ever getting in this situation without dying. So it is pretty much a short end of the stick deal? How should I avoid getting myself in that situation? Do I switch flanks early in the match and go with the large group? That just makes it worse for whoever does go on the weak flank. And if everyone did this to avoid the scenario, wouldn't you get a stupid scenario where both teams chase eachother in a circle?

It is all a question how soon you discover the situation.

When you are too late, you can get sunk.

This is also a situation where concealment helps and can give you time to heal.

 

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1 minute ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

About the kiting, when faced with 9 enemy ships, I'm afraid to turn around, so I reverse out, is that a good or a bad idea? It feels like the right thing to do at the time because at no point do I show broadside, but on the other hand my retreat it very slow and death is inevitable. Should I back out and die slow or risk getting blapped doing a U-turn to kite away?

First of all, if you suspect that you are heading towards multiple enemy ships and you are alone or in a small group start turning away. In certain situations you can back up with your bow facing the enemy ships but this is only prolonging the inevitable. Kiting is your only option of fighting the enemy ships BUT it is sometimes better not to shoot and move away, being invisible while the enemy is looking for a different target. 

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1 hour ago, Kejoz said:

First of all, if you suspect that you are heading towards multiple enemy ships and you are alone or in a small group start turning away. In certain situations you can back up with your bow facing the enemy ships but this is only prolonging the inevitable. Kiting is your only option of fighting the enemy ships BUT it is sometimes better not to shoot and move away, being invisible while the enemy is looking for a different target. 

I think I can avoid the entire scenario more if I simply don't go up a flank without something smaller in front of me, that way I know what i'm getting into and I can turn tail if I don't like it.

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Don't over commit too early i.e. before most of the enemy have been spotted and you know roughly what you're facing.

 

When you're on the weaker side and facing a lot of enemies kiting and slowing the enemy is the aim. If you can draw a lot of the enemy out of position, say into your spawn away from caps it gives your stronger flank time to move across and take on the enemies that are at the caps. Pulling 2 or 3 enemies out of cap contesting makes a big difference.

 

Trying to slow your death is the aim, not preventing it.

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2 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I'm in a battleship, majority of my team goes to A, a few ships go to C. The enemy team is doing the opposite thing, majority goes to C, a few go to A.

 

Easy peasy.. go B

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As has already been stated most higher-tier BBs have the speed to relocate from a lost flank so that shouldn't be too much of an issue. If you are in one of the godawfully slow BBs (low tier/US) then I find it easier to stay central anyway. I learned this lesson the hard way early in my WoWS career when I took my New Mex (iirc) to a flank but it was the enemy's weak flank and after we killed the few ships there I spent the rest of the game trying desperately to get back into the fight but my slow speed meant I was never able to. I decided then and there that I never wanted that to happen again.

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2 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

Right that's what I do, this allows me to tank 3+ million damage before going down, but going down is inevitable seems like, I don't remember ever getting in this situation without dying. 

Doesnt matter - dish out 100+ k damage, kill one or two enemies, tank 3 mil damage, keep enemies spotted so the rest of your team can turn after they dealt with their flank and obliterate the suckers you weakened and pulled out of position and win the match...

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Kite Away if you do not have the Numbers and Shoot the Cruisers and any DD that gets too close to you.

By Kiting away you May life long enough to kill some Enemys.

You can also join the Rest of the Team and then Push hard with all the support you now have.

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3 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

About the kiting, when faced with 9 enemy ships, I'm afraid to turn around, so I reverse out, is that a good or a bad idea? It feels like the right thing to do at the time because at no point do I show broadside, but on the other hand my retreat it very slow and death is inevitable. Should I back out and die slow or risk getting blapped doing a U-turn to kite away?

It all depends of many things, only being there.

 

which kind of BB?

Germans can take it, and in most cases the best course of action (flamu words).

The reverse tactic works better if the flank is holding on, if not, it's only a question of time until you are overwhelmed.

The best thing to do is read the situation and if it's hopeless just turn, you can still support while facing the other way.

Even if you are the last one in your flank, turn if there isn't any bb there or wait for their salvo and then turn , a few fires wont hurt you and might help you with your reload.

Use the terrain if possible 

 

 

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5 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

The only games where I really have no idea what to do is this example

I'm in a battleship, majority of my team goes to A, a few ships go to C. The enemy team is doing the opposite thing, majority goes to C, a few go to A. What always ends up happening is my team wins their 9v3 at A, I get crushed in my 3v9, is there any way to avoid this? What makes this worse is if this happens, the other 2 ships with you, say, a cruiser and a destroyer, will just leave and make it a 1v9 and go farm some damage on the other side, making it an 11v3 on that side. If it happens when I'm in a DD or CA I don't abandon the lone BB on that flank, try to help him out, nobody ever helps me out, they just back out and let me tank 3 million damage, I can't back out in a BB, I'm too slow. Are games like this just "bad luck" so like there's no counter, you just got the short end of the stick?

People tell me I should stop trying to win, random battles isn't about winning, winning is stupid, you're supposed to farm damage. Maybe I should play clan and/or  ranked instead if I'm actually interested in winning the match?

 

4 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

About the kiting, when faced with 9 enemy ships, I'm afraid to turn around, so I reverse out, is that a good or a bad idea? It feels like the right thing to do at the time because at no point do I show broadside, but on the other hand my retreat it very slow and death is inevitable. Should I back out and die slow or risk getting blapped doing a U-turn to kite away?

Never bow camp in weaker side. Turn your rear towards enemy and start to kite away. Basically never bow camp anyways. Potatoes get burned that way all the time.

Here is what unicums do:

- First check how many ships you got with you. If you see most of your team lemming training this is a instant sign that you are going to play defensive. Turn your ship around. Rear towards enemy and most likely don't even go anywhere near to caps.

- Your job is map control and slowing down enemy from now on. Keep good distance to your enemy so they won't overwhelm you.

- If you are completely alone you retreat to spawn and wait to see what happens in the game.

- DDs are there to spot and you will start to see in the minimap how many ships you will probably be facing. Count ships. Potatoes never even look at minimap so they don't have any idea how to play these situations. Look at minimap.

- A good player is to be able to wear down 1-3 ships who start to chase him.

- A good player keeps track of the game and knows how many enemies he can fight and at what distance. Keep +17km at least if you are alone.

- A good players wants to draw enemy away from his own team and make them waste their time or most often even take them out themselves.

- If enemy has broken your flank and is chasing you: You keep retreating and wear them down.

- If enemy has broken your flank and is ignoring you: You will still keep good distance, hold map control and get crossfires in their sides. Map control is extremely important.

- A good BB player if left in a flanking position without any attention will rip a potato team to pieces in a few salvoes.

- If you have kept your position in enemy flank and have weakened them enough this is the moment to attack them in their rear of flank with full speed. 

- Focus the ships that show you broadside and not always the one shooting at you. Shoot the ones who are most vulnerable.

 

In short and simple. Keep very long distance until you see in minimap what force you are facing. Wear down 1-2 ships at a time. If they ignore you slam them in their broadsides and attack them in flank and rear. Know the situation when you need to be running away and when to turn in and attack. Most potatoes just run away while a unicum wears down 2-3 enemies on his own.

 

Keep distance, wear down and counter attack when you can.

image.thumb.png.eda9756428b411283f511e15c6641581.png

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Retreat to cover, block their way towards the rest of yr team. You can dictate the engagement since you know your numbers, they don't. Delay them enough or smash em up if you are able or capable. You only need a good friendly dd imo to completely shut down that flank IF you find a good cover spot. If your team can't come to help after the 12 min mark then it is a loss and they didn't deserve to win. You did perhaps deserved it, but you will take the loss and move on. Numbers are irrelevant in this game.

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12 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

The only games where I really have no idea what to do is this example

I'm in a battleship, majority of my team goes to A, a few ships go to C. The enemy team is doing the opposite thing, majority goes to C, a few go to A. What always ends up happening is my team wins their 9v3 at A, I get crushed in my 3v9, is there any way to avoid this? What makes this worse is if this happens, the other 2 ships with you, say, a cruiser and a destroyer, will just leave and make it a 1v9 and go farm some damage on the other side, making it an 11v3 on that side. If it happens when I'm in a DD or CA I don't abandon the lone BB on that flank, try to help him out, nobody ever helps me out, they just back out and let me tank 3 million damage, I can't back out in a BB, I'm too slow. Are games like this just "bad luck" so like there's no counter, you just got the short end of the stick?

People tell me I should stop trying to win, random battles isn't about winning, winning is stupid, you're supposed to farm damage. Maybe I should play clan and/or  ranked instead if I'm actually interested in winning the match?

Please do not stop trying to win.

Randoms where people only farm are depressing.

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14 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

The only games where I really have no idea what to do is this example

I'm in a battleship, majority of my team goes to A, a few ships go to C. The enemy team is doing the opposite thing, majority goes to C, a few go to A. What always ends up happening is my team wins their 9v3 at A, I get crushed in my 3v9, is there any way to avoid this? What makes this worse is if this happens, the other 2 ships with you, say, a cruiser and a destroyer, will just leave and make it a 1v9 and go farm some damage on the other side, making it an 11v3 on that side. If it happens when I'm in a DD or CA I don't abandon the lone BB on that flank, try to help him out, nobody ever helps me out, they just back out and let me tank 3 million damage, I can't back out in a BB, I'm too slow. Are games like this just "bad luck" so like there's no counter, you just got the short end of the stick?

People tell me I should stop trying to win, random battles isn't about winning, winning is stupid, you're supposed to farm damage. Maybe I should play clan and/or  ranked instead if I'm actually interested in winning the match?

I've felt your pain. I think we have all faced the situation you describe.

 

Recently I've adopted a new approach to this scenario, If I find I'm on the weak flank, I've started to position myself differently, before the red team has even been spotted. I assume we are going to be outnumbered and try to take a defensive position, where I can get shots on the red team broadside as they push. This usually means heading more central, but I try and use the islands as cover, in case I need to withdraw. If it works ok and you are able to get a few shots off on the red push, it is amazing the effect it has, You can sometimes halt the enemy push altogether , and usually end up slowing them down, as they scramble to angle against you. All you are really trying to do is slow the red advance enough, to give your other flank the chance to push through and start to move your way with support. If it doesn't work, you can try and kite away or reposition to get better angles, using the islands for cover to help you make your turn.

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I think the bigger problem are BBs leaving the flank to into second corner of the map.  That's at least the more common issue.

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