Please built in a competence rule.

[RamboCras]

Dear WG,

 

With players having the possibility to go tier X within 26-29 games. Reaching tier IX within the press of the button in the store.

 

Can you please make the following rule:

if, in a tier VII-X game, you can't make 500 points, the next 3* games you have to play at least 1 tier lower.

 

So that:

- people steaming in caps in cruisers and BBs straight at the start of the game

- people that can't count and don't  see that they are vastly outnumbered from all sides

- people that overcommit (usually without knowing what enemies are there)

- DDs that go DEEP into enemy caps with the whole enemy team alive without knowing where the radar ships are

- DDs that race for caps without AA protection in a CV game

- AFK people that never show up (or incredibly late) 

- CVs that sail forward from when the game starts and get deleted in the start of the game

 

At least can't be present in the next 3* games!!!

 

*Preferably 5 games. You never know, maybe they will also buy a brand new ship from the store a tier lower? 

[principat121]

Would you please be so kind and quote me one game where punishing players lead to a better game! I am curious...

 

[PeteEarthling]

You will face widespread incompetence on all tiers. The only countermeasure is playing coop, where any human incompetence is actually working in your favour.

[RamboCras]

19 minutes ago, PeteEarthling said:

You will face widespread incompetence on all tiers. The only countermeasure is playing coop, where any human incompetence is actually working in your favour.

This is not incompetence, i can handle someone trying but not succeeding..... this is ignorance, they should not be on tier X. 

[RamboCras]

26 minutes ago, principat121 said:

Would you please be so kind and quote me one game where punishing players lead to a better game! I am curious...

 

Most other games have normal progression modes.

[Beastofwar]

1 hour ago, RamboCras said:

- people steaming in caps in cruisers and BBs straight at the start of the game

- people that can't count and don't  see that they are vastly outnumbered from all sides

- people that overcommit (usually without knowing what enemies are there)

- DDs that go DEEP into enemy caps with the whole enemy team alive without knowing where the radar ships are

- DDs that race for caps without AA protection in a CV game

- AFK people that never show up (or incredibly late) 

- CVs that sail forward from when the game starts and get deleted in the start of the game

 

 

 

All points are valid, but i agree punishment may not be the right action as that drives off customers the game gets income from. They will simply never do that.

 

What others suggested countless times are mandatory tutorials ( not videos you can skip/ignore as now ) you must play though. And with a little test you understood what the tutorial was trying to tell you before you may progress.

 

Other games have such mandatory tutorials and test, and to this game it would make an ENORMOUS difference in understanding how game mechanics work, and what tactics you can succesfully deploy as it seems so easy but is enormously complex with many layers of knowledge to master.

 

But understand when general player skill level goes up significantly, the amount of above average stat players ( "unicums" ) goes down......as much of the complaining about "incompetence" is due to losing WR on teammates that do not understand the game. They haven't thought trough that if enemies were to be competent they can't farm/seal club them anymore, and their WR goes down too......

 

So if you complain because you feel your WR is affected by bad team members......it won't change with creating more competent enemies !

 

I do agree a game with more competent players would be more enjoyable to fight with and against as it will be much more challenging and difficult. And less players that really think much of themselves clubbing/farming the less competent players, having their exploitive stats nomalized.....yeah that would be an improvement too.

 

 

[principat121]

24 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Most other games have normal progression modes.

That does not answer my question nor does it relate to your own topic here. 

[Knutorius]

You could limit player's access to higher tiers in general, by demanding a certain amount of played games. Just like they do with low tier players.

But then you would probably pollute low tier games with all the noobs, when in fact low tier should be an option to play even for experienced players.

But since WG doesn't care (they just added bots) it's just this gooey area that you go into, once in a while. To sealclub or grind a new line ..

 

57 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

With all the beginners rising to tier X within 20 games. Reaching tier IX within the press of the button in the store.

Thats the real issue.

But punishing players for lack of skill and understanding, or even bad luck (we all have bad games) doesn't really help with solving the issue.

I understand your frustration though. I'm sure Wargaming will address these issues in the future..

..maybe

[Karasu_Browarszky]

It depends on what you think is incompetence. Risk aversion is a culture related thing, and I see something like that in many battles which often end predictably in a victory for the side that grasped the opportunities the battle afforded. While in RL, I am part of that risk averse crowd (because gambling on the wrong cause of action leads to failure and the resultant punishment for incompetence; much better to wait for the enemy to make a fatal mistake!) but I've tried to learn to play much more aggressively in this game.

 

The problem is.. my teams are often still risk averse....

[COPlUM]

Instructions not clear, bought bunch of TX ships with mastercard. What is this "radar" you speak of?

[_Teob_]

I have always said that stat shaming is wrong and should be avoided so this is not what I am trying to do here. Just to qualify what I am about to say.

 

Whenever I see one of these topics, I always say to myself "well, another elitist unicum trying to humble-brag on the forum and bash on people who are not as skilled as them just so they can feel big on the internet" so I check the stats of whoever started the thread.

To my disbelief, 9 times out of 10 it's someone who I would not want on my team making these. Like sub 50% WR at t10 people that are also very upset about all the incompetence they run into. And then I almost think like "are they advocating for punishment for themselves?".

I just don't understand. I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything but how do people not have any self awareness at all. Like why do I basically never see these topics started by super-unicums from highly competitive clans?

 

It's fine to not be the best player. We all play differently, for different reasons and we have different volumes of time that we're willing to dedicate to this game. I am shocked though when someone is not great but also takes the time to ask for punishment for bad players.

 

I am genuinely curious here, I hope someone can explain.

Is it a matter of people not checking their own stats and just thinking they are very good?

Or maybe it is a matter of simply only looking down, like if I am a 50% WR player then any 48% WR player is scum of the earth to me kind of a thing?

Apologies for the slight off-topic. If the community feels like this is not worth discussing, I will just drop it - I am just baffled.

 

@OP no, there's no way WG will introduce any sort of punishment for people not playing very well. The punishment is the loss of credits and going back to port.

 

[_HomTanks_]

19 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

And then I almost think like "are they advocating for punishment for themselves?".

 

 

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, RamboCras said:

Dear WG,

 

With all the beginners rising to tier X within 20 games. Reaching tier IX within the press of the button in the store.

Not really...

Exaggerate much?

[PeteEarthling]

27 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

Or maybe it is a matter of simply only looking down, like if I am a 50% WR player then any 48% WR player is scum of the earth to me kind of a thing?

I would say yes, but it is rather a 40%er looking down at 30% ers these days.

[RamboCras]

Nice discussion guys, I come from a sports background, there you need to train hard to be good and to win to go to the next division. It's ok if you don't want to.. but then you end up in a competition where there are similar people like (some are called beer - teams). Its where I ended up after I got too old to be competitive. I have had to do many annoying assignments for this game, so for me, if I don't make my 500 points. I would not mind playing tier IX or VIII for 3 games. So many games now are done in max 12 minutes and I think it's a combination of spam and OP ships combined with players that lack skill. Hoe over when your team is massacred did you not lose all DDs in 3-4 minutes? How often were there not ships pushing a cap without knowing what is there? People see this is punishment, I see it as making people practice on a level they should be comfortable with.  

[RamboCras]

16 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Not really...

Exaggerate much?

Go to the store, tier IX for sale.

 

Flambass made a video about it, and he did not even win all games.

 

 

Same a guys,  got his Yamato after 3 weeks. 1870 coop battles. 

[Beastofwar]

56 minutes ago, _Teob_ said:

The punishment is the loss of credits and going back to port.

 

 

And at TX that can be pretty rough credit punishment indeed....

 

But then ofcourse there is premium account and "premium" camo's that soften that a lot. Up to T IX premium ships too,and players can get to T X in coal ships without having ships close to that tier.

 

So to improve overall player performance and with that reduce the high WR of exploitive players that seal club/farm clueless players now, OP still has a point.

 

Btw : these forums have an stange tendency to overrate the opinion of high WR players that are stuck in TX forever and exploiting premium or full researched powerfull tech tree ships of free choice against those that have not, forgetting all about how they once climbed the tech tree with ( somethimes bad/very different playstyle then others in the class ) stock ships. One with understanding ( how the game works ) should not judge still tech tree climbing players....because that is truely just "kicking down" to feel superior when it may be doubtfull one really is without all mentioned benefits.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Go to the store, tier IX for sale.

 

Flambass made a video about it, and he did not even win all games.

Tier IX is not Tier X...

Not EVERY new player buys a Tier IX...

[RamboCras]

3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Tier IX is not Tier X...

Not EVERY new player buys a Tier IX...

Nope, the other raises up too fast in comparison to their skill level. It takes under 2000 Coop games to get to the Yamato

 

With a tier IX you end up in tier X games very often...

[ColonelPete]

7 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Nope, the other raises up too fast in comparison to their skill level. It takes under 2000 Coop games to get to the Yamato

 

With a tier IX you end up in tier X games very often...

You can say nope all you want, it does not change the facts.

And people getting to Tier X too quickly for their own good is a different matter and not exactly new.

[Beastofwar]

12 minutes ago, Arturius_2 said:

@Beastofwar

You will be first victim of such rule :D

 

 

 

Players in general being much more competent and tougher ?....sure thing.

 

Yet i may not be the greatest victim......i still play the game for enjoyment, not exploit it to farm "all important" WR for bragging ( or even speaking ) rights....

 

 

[Hanse77SWE]

Wrote this in another topic.

 

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

3 hours ago, principat121 said:

Would you please be so kind and quote me one game where punishing players lead to a better game! I am curious...

Purpose is not to punish. It's MMR in disguise. Keeps the potatoes out of high tiers.

[RamboCras]

12 minutes ago, Beastofwar said:

 

Players in general being much more competent and tougher ?....sure thing.

 

Yet i may not be the greatest victim......i still play the game for enjoyment, not exploit it to farm "all important" WR for bragging ( or even speaking ) rights....

 

 

500 is not hard to reach..... If you enjoy the game, I doubt you will not make it.

[Karasu_Browarszky]

49 minutes ago, RamboCras said:

Nice discussion guys, I come from a sports background, there you need to train hard to be good and to win to go to the next division. It's ok if you don't want to.. but then you end up in a competition where there are similar people like (some are called beer - teams). Its where I ended up after I got too old to be competitive. I have had to do many annoying assignments for this game, so for me, if I don't make my 500 points. I would not mind playing tier IX or VIII for 3 games. So many games now are done in max 12 minutes and I think it's a combination of spam and OP ships combined with players that lack skill. Hoe over when your team is massacred did you not lose all DDs in 3-4 minutes? How often were there not ships pushing a cap without knowing what is there? People see this is punishment, I see it as making people practice on a level they should be comfortable with.  

 

You should then quickly realize that WoWS is a team game, not a single player game. The problem is, most people play it as an online single player game without any idea whatsoever about team tactics. Competence in this sense is not really only about individual player stats, it is about team performance. When you get a team which plays well together, you get good results. And.. vice versa.