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Quexcy_de_Eerste

CV Nederland / Pan-Europa (page 1), extra DD techtree (page 1) european submarine tree (page 2)

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6 hours ago, Quexcy_de_Eerste said:

Does someone agree with me?

Unfortunately I dont, as that would mean memorizing more enemy ships ;)  Unless they are cv's or subs. You would have slightly more luck maybe suggesting a pan-european sub line. 

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8 hours ago, rimmer_the said:

Thats quite negative and untrue. If Dutch players want more Dutch ships in game, just let WG take their money. And are there no other ships in game that are copies, like the pan-asian dd's ?

But there are already complaints about too many "copy-paste" ships in the game.

 

Also, any ships that comes into the game should do so base upon the ship, not upon the nation.

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You will only need one country, so you can also made a duo techtree.

 

Submarine techtree:

T6: O12 (1931) (NL) 

T8: O19 (1939) (NL)

T10: Walrus (1944 (build) /56 (selled to NL)) (NL)

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On 7/17/2020 at 3:36 PM, Quexcy_de_Eerste said:

In the game you can use this planes:

 

Bombers: Fokker C.X ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_C.X~

Fighters: Fokker D.XXI ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_D.XXI~

Torpedoes: Fokker T.VIII (without water landing gear) ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_T.VIII~

Attack aircraft: you can put some English rockets underneath a D XXI (I think)

I would rather go with

Bombers: Grumman TBF Avenger ASW/torpedo bombers

Fighters: Fairey Firefly  or Hawker Sea Fury

Torpedoes: Grumman TBF Avenger ASW/torpedo bombers

All of the above planes flew historically of the R81 Karel Doorman.

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57 minutes ago, The_Flying_Dutchman114 said:

I would rather go with

Bombers: Grumman TBF Avenger ASW/torpedo bombers

Fighters: Fairey Firefly  or Hawker Sea Fury

Torpedoes: Grumman TBF Avenger ASW/torpedo bombers

All of the above planes flew historically of the R81 Karel Doorman.

But they aren't Dutch

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There are much subs for Europe, so I will place them in a new topic called 'Subs for European Techtree'.That's because this topic is actually still about cv's.

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1 minute ago, The_Flying_Dutchman114 said:

So was the carrier :)

The carrier was Dutch after it was selled by UK, so the carrier is Dutch, so I would like to have Dutch planes on the ship.

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1 minute ago, Quexcy_de_Eerste said:

The carrier was Dutch after it was selled by UK, so the carrier is Dutch, so I would like to have Dutch planes on the ship.

But the planes historically flew off the ship. The planes were sold to Dutchland, so (as you say) the planes are also Dutch. 

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1 minute ago, The_Flying_Dutchman114 said:

But the planes historically flew off the ship. The planes were sold to Dutchland, so (as you say) the planes are also Dutch. 

Somewhere in page 1, there is something about that the planes don't have to be the planes that flew on it, so it is nice to have Dutch famous names like Fokker and Koolhoven on the carrier.

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8 hours ago, Quexcy_de_Eerste said:

You will only need one country, so you can also made a duo techtree.

 

Submarine techtree:

T6: O12 (1931) (NL) 

T8: O19 (1939) (NL)

T10: Walrus (1944 (build) /56 (selled to NL)) (NL)

I don't think someone readed this comment because of our discussion, so maybe we should stop with this useless discussion.

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The only Dutch carrier interesting enough for me is the second Karel Doorman. It came in Dutch service in 1948, not WW2 (the first Karel Doorman did enter Dutch service in 1946, and only served until Karel Doorman 2 was commissioned). I'm not sure what planes to add. Sea Furies or Fireflies as fighters, the latter could be used as bomber as well maybe, I'm not too familiar with the type. Avengers as torpedo planes, they only served after the ship got an angled deck, but Avengers on the ship before the refit seems more plausible than Dutch planes that never came close to carriers.

 

There are some interesting destroyers, and I was disappointed to not see a single Dutch destroyer in the Ikea line. So mayhaps in the future. Isaac Sweers should become available at some point, with historical camo (só often disappointed when WG goes for the fantasy instead) and that is a ship with some historical significance as well. The next obvious choice is the Admiralen-class, in this class there was also at least one with a camo scheme, and a spotter plane could add something unique to it. Now, thát could be a Fokker, to be precise a Fokker C-VII W, or otherwise a Van Berkel WA (and it seems no planes were onboard during the actions in WW2). A few ships got ASDIC as well, so hydro might also be an option. I copy-pasted a post of Lert from the NA forum which should be somewhere around, he did more research than I intend to do.

 

Submarines, please no, but if they really come then the Dutch should be there as well. We were one of the leading countries in submarine development and could've still been if it were not for politicians. Some of the Dutch subs were quite succesfull, and in the first weeks of the war against Japan they sank more ships than the Royal Navy and US Navy combined, resulting in Admiral Helfrich getting the nickname "ship-a-day Helfrich".

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8 hours ago, Robber_Baron said:

The only Dutch carrier interesting enough for me is the second Karel Doorman. It came in Dutch service in 1948, not WW2 (the first Karel Doorman did enter Dutch service in 1946, and only served until Karel Doorman 2 was commissioned). I'm not sure what planes to add. Sea Furies or Fireflies as fighters, the latter could be used as bomber as well maybe, I'm not too familiar with the type. Avengers as torpedo planes, they only served after the ship got an angled deck, but Avengers on the ship before the refit seems more plausible than Dutch planes that never came close to carriers.

 

There are some interesting destroyers, and I was disappointed to not see a single Dutch destroyer in the Ikea line. So mayhaps in the future. Isaac Sweers should become available at some point, with historical camo (só often disappointed when WG goes for the fantasy instead) and that is a ship with some historical significance as well. The next obvious choice is the Admiralen-class, in this class there was also at least one with a camo scheme, and a spotter plane could add something unique to it. Now, thát could be a Fokker, to be precise a Fokker C-VII W, or otherwise a Van Berkel WA (and it seems no planes were onboard during the actions in WW2). A few ships got ASDIC as well, so hydro might also be an option. I copy-pasted a post of Lert from the NA forum which should be somewhere around, he did more research than I intend to do.

 

Submarines, please no, but if they really come then the Dutch should be there as well. We were one of the leading countries in submarine development and could've still been if it were not for politicians. Some of the Dutch subs were quite succesfull, and in the first weeks of the war against Japan they sank more ships than the Royal Navy and US Navy combined, resulting in Admiral Helfrich getting the nickname "ship-a-day Helfrich".

I love that you call it the IKEA line. But I still think the fighters should be Fokker D.XXI, or if someone want perfect stuff maybe Fokker G.I

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9 hours ago, Robber_Baron said:

The only Dutch carrier interesting enough for me is the second Karel Doorman. It came in Dutch service in 1948, not WW2 (the first Karel Doorman did enter Dutch service in 1946, and only served until Karel Doorman 2 was commissioned). I'm not sure what planes to add. Sea Furies or Fireflies as fighters, the latter could be used as bomber as well maybe, I'm not too familiar with the type. Avengers as torpedo planes, they only served after the ship got an angled deck, but Avengers on the ship before the refit seems more plausible than Dutch planes that never came close to carriers.

 

There are some interesting destroyers, and I was disappointed to not see a single Dutch destroyer in the Ikea line. So mayhaps in the future. Isaac Sweers should become available at some point, with historical camo (só often disappointed when WG goes for the fantasy instead) and that is a ship with some historical significance as well. The next obvious choice is the Admiralen-class, in this class there was also at least one with a camo scheme, and a spotter plane could add something unique to it. Now, thát could be a Fokker, to be precise a Fokker C-VII W, or otherwise a Van Berkel WA (and it seems no planes were onboard during the actions in WW2). A few ships got ASDIC as well, so hydro might also be an option. I copy-pasted a post of Lert from the NA forum which should be somewhere around, he did more research than I intend to do.

 

Submarines, please no, but if they really come then the Dutch should be there as well. We were one of the leading countries in submarine development and could've still been if it were not for politicians. Some of the Dutch subs were quite succesfull, and in the first weeks of the war against Japan they sank more ships than the Royal Navy and US Navy combined, resulting in Admiral Helfrich getting the nickname "ship-a-day Helfrich".

The Spotting plane have to be Van Berkel WA in nu eyes, because that one flew on the Admiralenclass.

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5 hours ago, Quexcy_de_Eerste said:

The Spotting plane have to be Van Berkel WA in nu eyes, because that one flew on the Admiralenclass.

I'm not sure if it was for tests only, but at least HNLMS Van Galen had a Fokker at some point on board, as this picture proves.

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32 minutes ago, Robber_Baron said:

I'm not sure if it was for tests only, but at least HNLMS Van Galen had a Fokker at some point on board, as this picture proves.

Ok, it don't matter wich plane you take.

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IMO Reality went out of the window a long time ago, in fact Navies that acctualy existed seem penalised for that fact, whilst the Fairy Tale Fleets end up as OP Monsters with Railguns and Powered by Super BS Reactors, so why can't there be a European Carrier line and for that matter Battleship line as well, Bring em On I Say :Smile_honoring:

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5 hours ago, motor_g_b said:

IMO Reality went out of the window a long time ago, in fact Navies that acctualy existed seem penalised for that fact, whilst the Fairy Tale Fleets end up as OP Monsters with Railguns and Powered by Super BS Reactors, so why can't there be a European Carrier line and for that matter Battleship line as well, Bring em On I Say :Smile_honoring:

Line with 2 or even 3 real carriers from 4 is definitely more real than one certain carrier line... :Smile_teethhappy:Oh wait, even soviet BB's were more grounded in reality than this one certain line.

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On 7/18/2020 at 1:33 PM, Marblehead_1 said:

European tree could have whole CV tree with Spanish Dedalo ex USS Cabot from Independence class. This could be interesting because Spanish Navy had also seaplane tender named Dedalo ( early XX-th century ) which I think could not fit for TIV. What about European CV tree? At least 3 real ships ( problem with name as Karel Doorman was patron of two of them ) 

 

TIV. Karel Doorman (I)

TVI. Dedalo ex Cabot / Spanish variant of rebuilding of wreck of cruiser Trieste as CVL as premium

TVIII. Karel Doorman (II)

TX.

I doubt that Sweden considered possesing a aircraft carrier due to their localization so it leaves place for projects from Netherlands, Spain and Greece. Spanish Navy during 40-50's have some very crazy plans about building new ships ( accuiring plans of Littorio class battleship, conversion of Canarias into light aircraft carrier ect. ) so I bet here could be found some interesting designs. If the DKM CV TX is CV on hull of Friedrich der Grosse so it opens possibility for in example aircraft carrier on hull of Spanish Littorio or something like that.

I like the initiative, but let us not forget that both Karel Doorman's are very very much escort and light carriers. Even after the angled deck refit Karel Doorman (II) is a 19.000 ton displacement carrier pitted against ships like a 32.000 ton T8 HMS Implacable. So long WoWS is mostly focused on fleet and strike carriers, you need to do a lot of hand-waving on what the Karel Doorman (II) is (or other European CVs) to make it comparable to the current T8 CVs, or accept it is a totally different ship with only a historical name attached to it.  Historically de Karel Doorman (II) as in operation was very much focused on anti-submarine warfare and fleet defense, with poor strike capability. 

 

I honestly would be a bit disappointed if they had to end doing a lot of hand-waving to get designs that are arguably intended for a different spectrum of combat, to fit in the current dominant strike capable CV mechanics. Especially as i am actually rather impressed how WoWS implemented the HNLMS Friesland and the Swedish Pan-EU DD line in the game, as they found ways to stay somewhat true to the post-WW2 designs and doctrine while still ending up in ships that are actually interesting.

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13 hours ago, CallMeDutchDave said:

I like the initiative, but let us not forget that both Karel Doorman's are very very much escort and light carriers. Even after the angled deck refit Karel Doorman (II) is a 19.000 ton displacement carrier pitted against ships like a 32.000 ton T8 HMS Implacable. So long WoWS is mostly focused on fleet and strike carriers, you need to do a lot of hand-waving on what the Karel Doorman (II) is (or other European CVs) to make it comparable to the current T8 CVs, or accept it is a totally different ship with only a historical name attached to it.  Historically de Karel Doorman (II) as in operation was very much focused on anti-submarine warfare and fleet defense, with poor strike capability. 

 

I honestly would be a bit disappointed if they had to end doing a lot of hand-waving to get designs that are arguably intended for a different spectrum of combat, to fit in the current dominant strike capable CV mechanics. Especially as i am actually rather impressed how WoWS implemented the HNLMS Friesland and the Swedish Pan-EU DD line in the game, as they found ways to stay somewhat true to the post-WW2 designs and doctrine while still ending up in ships that are actually interesting.

Maybe it's also a idea to put anti-sub cv's in wows

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Hello again, its maybe also an good idea to get the Gadila (a real Dutch aircraft carrier) with the following planes in WoWS T4:

 

-Attack: Fokker D.IX

-Bomber: Fokker C.X

-Torpedo: Fokker T.III (without water landing gear, and yes its an singlewingplane)

 

==Specifications Gadila==

(compared with USA T4 Langley without upgrading)

 

Speed: 12.7 kts (Langley: 15 kts)

Secundair: 1×1 102mm QF Mk IV(Langley: 4×127mm)

AA: 2×1 40mm Bofors, 6×1 20mm Oerlikon (Langley: 0)

 

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