American 406mm - Do damage how?

[COPlUM]

I went for German cruisers and Russian Destroyers, love both. Also went from American battleships and I cannot make 406mm work, don't know what I'm doing wrong and would like some input from more experienced players. I was just in a match (iowa) - a yamato was showing me flat broadside 20km away, it ate 6 volleys from me, I didn't miss a shot, ricochet, ricochet, a few 1.250 damage hits. It shot me back once, two shells hit, I was half dead. I left because apparently I can't do anything to a broadside battleship in an Iowa, shot some cruisers, they were angling against me, ricochet, ricochet, meanwhile ships like the thunderer on my team were shooting the exact same cruisers from the exact same angles and overmatching them. People tell me American 406 is OK because you can sling HE with it and light stuff on fire, they're OK because you can probably citadel a cruiser that's nice enough to sail broadside to you at 6km, but that's so sad, it's like saying don't worry, you can do damage sometimes if someone else wants to suicide. So far the only targets I found I can do damage to is light cruisers like minotaur, other battleships laugh at me and cruisers angle against me and farm me. So, how do I kill stuff with American 406? Should I just cut my losses, sell the Iowa and go for something with bigger caliber guns that can actually overmatch cruisers? Thx for advice,

[ColonelPete]

• 20km is a bit far for reliable hits, look for closer targets or you are too far away
• when the enemy you are shooting takes 50% of your HP in one salvo, you were probably not angling enough
• you need to work on your target selection and aiming

Best to show us a replay.

[Commander_Ericson]

Common theme I keep seeing is players not forming crossfires. BB's all bunching together, normally near some island, lobbing AP at nose in enemy BB's, doing little damage to the enemy whilst taking lots of HE and then AP to the broadsides as they start to turn away after realising that they are loosing the damage battle.

 

I'm kind of giving up on playing bb's because of this, as I'll try and set up in a position to tank but also form one side of the cross fire and then find the other bb's on my side of the map either 10-15km behind at the back of the map or all sitting behind me and I'm sat there managing the damage from 4-5 players and trying to support my dd that is yoloing into the cap, with just me in support.

 

406's do fine if you get broadsides, sames as 380's. There has been some powercreep with more 30mm armour about, but that doesn't change the fact that you really need to see the sides of the enemy to do real damage in a bb.

[Butterdoll]

About Iowa i don't know but regarding 406 mm...

this is a sample of what 406 mm can do.

 

 

So pretty damn good if you ask me.

 

And they are more accurate than 380 mms

[COPlUM]

29 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

• 20km is a bit far for reliable hits, look for closer targets or you are too far away
• when the enemy you are shooting takes 50% of your HP in one salvo, you were probably not angling enough
• you need to work on your target selection and aiming

Best to show us a replay.

I know I need work, especially with BBs I'm pretty bad, but am I handicapping myself trying to make the classic american BBs work? What is their feature, I can't tell, it's definitely not the guns. When I play my German CA's I know they're tanky up close, good accuracy, superior HE penetration, good AP alpha damage. When I play my Russian DDs, I know I got lasers with 14km range whereas other DDs have no hope of even hitting me from 14km. What am I getting with something like the Montana over say the Thunderer? Should I keep going down the US BB line if I don't/can't trust the guns to ever blap something?

[COPlUM]

7 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

this is a sample of what 406 mm can do.

40K? Biggest hit I've ever scored was 8K or something. And Montana has 12 of them instead of 9, looks promising. Am I screwing things up shooting from too far? Do you want to get in peoples face with these US battleships? In those screenshots you are either at kissing distance or at 10Km. I tend to shoot from 15-25km.

[COPlUM]

11 minutes ago, Commander_Ericson said:

that doesn't change the fact that you really need to see the sides of the enemy to do real damage in a bb.

That's what I thought having played the game years ago when Montana, Yamato and GK were the only T10s, but I'm seeing all the since released battleships have yamato size guns and they just overmatch everything. So I'm thinking, am I wasting my time grinding down this old tech tree when every other BB at T10 can ignore CA angles and just overmatch them through the nose.

[ColonelPete]

Their guns are their thing.

You just need to select the right targets.

[DFens_666]

11 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

What am I getting with something like the Montana over say the Thunderer?

 

I think thats a good question. Ive asked myself that often enough when i look at my T9-10 BBs. Thats why i basicly didnt grind any T9 BB, but just freeXPed them.

 

 

Izumo is not even on the list, because i just skipped it. Iowa/FDG/Soyuz i skipped aswell. But why play them? Musashi is atleast superior to all of them. Well, Alsace actually has been really strong. And Missouri back when it got introduced was very good too and special ontop of that.

 

Is TX different? not really. I even consider GK to be better than Montana, as it can actually push with the Hydro. Atleast Yamato and Bourgogne are unique, so those are definetely 2 keepers. Kremlin/Thunderer are between those 2 and really strong aswell.

 

That being said, i dont think they are bad. You can play them, they can perform aswell. Iowa is a solid BB, not great not terrible. Slightly better heal than the others, and it doesnt compete with the largest caliber BBs, because on T9 you only have Musashi and Georgia, and the Cruisers dont have 30mm plating.

[Cpt_ZombZan_GR]

american 406 are the most powerful 406s go for cruisers first then for bbs

[COPlUM]

10 minutes ago, Cpt_ZombZan_GR said:

american 406 are the most powerful 406s go for cruisers first then for bbs

From what range? So like what can I shoot from where. Shooting BBs from 20km doesn't work with 406, I just tickle them. Looking at the pretty pictures from Butterdoll it looks like you can blap BBs up close. So what distance should I be respecting? 10 for BBs / 15 for CAs / 20 for CLs? I know I can blap light cruisers from any range, the one time I blapped something was a minotaur behind an island 25km away. What i'm struggling with is stuff angling against me and I see other BBs with 457mm guns basically ignore that consistently - Still do damage.

[Butterdoll]

3 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

40K? Biggest hit I've ever scored was 8K or something. And Montana has 12 of them instead of 9, looks promising. Am I screwing things up shooting from too far? Do you want to get in peoples face with these US battleships? In those screenshots you are either at kissing distance or at 10Km. I tend to shoot from 15-25km.

I heard that with Iowa  better not doing that., it's not a brawler and has a nose very susceptible to be citadeled . South Dakotas are not quite Germans but they are pretty tough.

But at the same time, shooting that far (20-25 km), most probably you aren't hitting the mark , drag, dispersion, correction from other players, travel time, your own aim

 i can't give you any tips about Iowa but regarding the guns, i can tell you that i blapped with 4 citadels an angled Des Moines, due to the improved angle penetration and i managed to citadel a RNCA that came ram distance from me, so a very steep angle too.

I do get the same kind of volleys that you are complaining about but, so far, it's been a completely different experience they have plenty punching power and they are more accurate.

 

 

 

 

[COPlUM]

3 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

I heard that with Iowa  better not doing that.

But then I still don't know what to do with Iowa/Montana, I can't blap anything other than light cruisers from long distance - the ships aren't suitable to brawl like the Germans or the Massa and they can't tank stupid amounts of damage like the Kremlin. Should I operate at medium range? So neither brawl nor snipe?

[ColonelPete]

9 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

From what range? So like what can I shoot from where. Shooting BBs from 20km doesn't work with 406, I just tickle them. Looking at the pretty pictures from Butterdoll it looks like you can blap BBs up close. So what distance should I be respecting? 10 for BBs / 15 for CAs / 20 for CLs? I know I can blap light cruisers from any range, the one time I blapped something was a minotaur behind an island 25km away. What i'm struggling with is stuff angling against me and I see other BBs with 457mm guns basically ignore that consistently - Still do damage.

Shoot everything under 15km.

Yes, you can devstrike BB at that distances, when you catch them at the right moment.

[Butterdoll]

33 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

ut I'm seeing all the since released battleships have yamato size guns and they just overmatch everything.

No, they cant.

Yamato has 460 mm guns and can overmatch everything

the others have 457 mm and they can't overmatch everything , e.g. they can't overmatch 32 mm which is South Dakota's bow, and in fact i had Kremlins doing nothing to my ship 

So, there's a difference.

And IMO Thunderer is just a glass cannon, very squishy. No fun for you, I'm died kind of ship.

 

 

[COPlUM]

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Shoot everything under 15km.

Yes, you can devstrike BB at that distances, when you catch them at the right moment.

15km gotcha, will give that a try

[Itwastuesday]

Iowa is supposedly a very hard ship to play, but not bad. I suggest keep practicing.

[lafeel]

@NikolayKuznetsov As stated above it's mostly just a matter of practice.

 

If and  when you can get used to them, and make them work, the American Piercing (aka American superheavy AP shells) are absolutely devastating, but it requires practice to be good at making them work.

 

Well that and a bit of luck, this is a RNG based game after all.

19 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

Iowa is supposedly a very hard ship to play, but not bad. I suggest keep practicing.

Don't have a Iowa, yet, but I do have a Missouri. She is certainly far from bad if her freemium sister is anything to go by.

[Butterdoll]

7 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

But then I still don't know what to do with Iowa/Montana, I can't blap anything other than light cruisers from long distance - the ships aren't suitable to brawl like the Germans or the Massa and they can't tank stupid amounts of damage like the Kremlin. Should I operate at medium range? So neither brawl nor snipe?

Man i don't have a Iowa, i don't know the ship, never played it.

I'm in no position to gave you advices about Iowa whatsoever

the best thing i can do about Iowa is this. sorry. see 12 minutes mark

 

 

[COPlUM]

My only other battleship is the T5 Texas -An average T5 BB as far as I know- I just played that to see if its me, the ship or me not knowing how to play the ship, I got confederate, 100K+ damage, 1500 base XP in T5 MM and 2 devastating strikes on my first try, so its not like I am not running brain.exe, I am. Just dont know how to make high tier 406 american BBs work for me. I will try playing the Iowa from 15km and see if that helps.

[COPlUM]

26 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

Flamu video

He is saying the ship has been powercrept, kinda the feeling I had. I laughed at the 18 min mark because he had no chance of beating a Jean Bart so instead he purposely broke both turrets on it, turned it into a floating bathtub Amazing player Flamu

[Butterdoll]

7 minutes ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

He is saying the ship has been powercrept, kinda the feeling I had. I laughed at the 18 min mark because he had no chance of beating a Jean Bart so instead he purposely broke both turrets on it, turned it into a floating bathtub Amazing player Flamu

 

It's a good starting point.

 

It's up to you to adopt what you read and see  and it's useful to your playstyle .

there's more videos about Iowa scoring citadels in Yamatos and whatnot

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, NikolayKuznetsov said:

I went for German cruisers and Russian Destroyers, love both. Also went from American battleships and I cannot make 406mm work, don't know what I'm doing wrong and would like some input from more experienced players. I was just in a match (iowa) - a yamato was showing me flat broadside 20km away, it ate 6 volleys from me, I didn't miss a shot, ricochet, ricochet, a few 1.250 damage hits. It shot me back once, two shells hit, I was half dead. I left because apparently I can't do anything to a broadside battleship in an Iowa, shot some cruisers, they were angling against me, ricochet, ricochet, meanwhile ships like the thunderer on my team were shooting the exact same cruisers from the exact same angles and overmatching them. People tell me American 406 is OK because you can sling HE with it and light stuff on fire, they're OK because you can probably citadel a cruiser that's nice enough to sail broadside to you at 6km, but that's so sad, it's like saying don't worry, you can do damage sometimes if someone else wants to suicide.

1. Yamato at 20 km has too much belt for most shells to go through. Far too long an engagement range.
2. HE has ok fire chance, but not worth it unless your life depends on killing that one angled target you cannot overmatch.
3. You can citadel broadsiding cruisers at any range, not just 6 km. You also can overmatch bow and stern of T10 cruisers and most of any T9 cruiser. In general, Iowa and Montana would play best punishing anything that broadsides at mid range, where people don't have all the time to react, yet the concealment might help allow for surprise. But even if you don't get surprise shots, enough idiots are around and if not, then go to a position where the enemy has to broadside either you or some other BB.

[COPlUM]

1 hour ago, Bunny_Lover_Kallen said:

1. Yamato at 20 km has too much belt for most shells to go through. Far too long an engagement range.
2. HE has ok fire chance, but not worth it unless your life depends on killing that one angled target you cannot overmatch.
3. You can citadel broadsiding cruisers at any range, not just 6 km. You also can overmatch bow and stern of T10 cruisers and most of any T9 cruiser. In general, Iowa and Montana would play best punishing anything that broadsides at mid range, where people don't have all the time to react, yet the concealment might help allow for surprise. But even if you don't get surprise shots, enough idiots are around and if not, then go to a position where the enemy has to broadside either you or some other BB.

1) Didn't know that, is there a chart somewhere with armor thickness and penetration value over specific distances?
2) I know, I avoid slinging HE in a BB unless in this scenario, just mentioned it because people tell me "406mm is ok against 30mm because you can burn them" - That is lame advice, everything can burn everything, if I want to start fires, I wouldn't be in a battleship.

3) I've been trying 15Km instead of the 20+ km because advice from Colonel, already seeing some improvement, I don't understand how I would be able to overpen bow and stern of CAs though? They all have 30mm plating now, CL's are fine, blapped CL's from max spotter plane range even, it's just against 30mm bow/stern which all CA's now have, 406mm can't do anything. In a match I'm jealous of thunderers, kremlins, conquerors, republiques, Yamatos and virtually all the latest Premiums, everything except Montana/GK can overmatch 30mm at this point and they made 30mm the standard bow/stern plating.

 

I almost have the montana and throughout the entire grind there was 1 moment where I thought 'hey this ship is pretty cool, other ships can't do this' a minotaur was sitting behind an island, I lobbed shells over it from 25km, don't think Kremlins can do that. In my German cruisers and Russian DDs, I know their strengths and weaknesses, I can play accordingly, in American BBs I can't, because I don't know what their strengths are. I read they are very accurate at long range, that's why I decided to go for them, but now they can't bring the pain from long range anymore and I'm hearing get close. If I wanted to get close, why do I need the accuracy, I'd be better off in a tanky Kremlin or a tanky GK with secondary build.

Even the wiki is suspiciously vague when listing the pros of the ship

"very flexible" Ok what does that mean

"decent turret traverse" 2nd slowest behind the yamato is decent i guess

"Good AA" Because AA definitely does something in 2020

"has ap shells" Cool

The only real pro I can think of myself is having 12 guns instead of the more typical 9 guns, but the conqueror has 12, it does overmatch 30mm and does 50% more HE damage.

[COPlUM]

Think I found out how to make the guns work against enemy BBs at long range, aiming waterline from 20km does nothing, has to be 15km or less like colonel pete said, there's no citadels from 20km. But I found out I can hurt other battleships long range if I aim upper belt, get normal penetrations, but they still hurt. Still don't know what to do with angled cruisers without overmatch, just switch to HE or switch target I guess.